The Grims wrote:What happens if the company goes bankrupt a year or so after your overtime ? Are the backwages lost ?
Probably repaid with the foreclosure money, like any outstanding company debt.
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by Petrolheadia » Sat Dec 15, 2018 3:52 pm
The Grims wrote:What happens if the company goes bankrupt a year or so after your overtime ? Are the backwages lost ?
by Petrolheadia » Sat Dec 15, 2018 3:54 pm
Sufokia wrote:Purgatio wrote:Last I checked, slave labour means compulsory/mandatory labour, ie you are being forced to work against your voluntary will. I don't see anything in this proposal that suggests the introduction of forced labour, workers who don't like the conditions being suggested can simply not take the job in the first place. What's the big deal.
Why even allow such labor conditions if he cares about the people of Hungary?
by Imperialisium » Sat Dec 15, 2018 5:00 pm
by Hurdergaryp » Sat Dec 15, 2018 5:27 pm
Imperialisium wrote:the Op has already been debunked. If you want a concise explanation just zip up to my prior post.
by Kaggeceria » Sat Dec 15, 2018 5:29 pm
Hurdergaryp wrote:Imperialisium wrote:the Op has already been debunked. If you want a concise explanation just zip up to my prior post.
We are talking about the same Orban who misused EU subsidies in order to build a soccer stadium in his birthplace, right? Yeah, that guy certainly loves the common Hungarian laborer.
by Uiiop » Sat Dec 15, 2018 5:40 pm
by The Serbian Empire » Sat Dec 15, 2018 5:55 pm
San Lumen wrote:It doesnt matter what Orban does. Hungary is a democracy in name only at this point. The election rules that his party have implemented and the gerrymandering they have done have made it impossible for them to lose their supermajority. That's not even mentioning all the other things he has done.
by Novus Wrepland » Sat Dec 15, 2018 8:46 pm
Imperialisium wrote:the Op has already been debunked. If you want a concise explanation just zip up to my prior post.
by Imperialisium » Sat Dec 15, 2018 10:42 pm
Novus Wrepland wrote:Imperialisium wrote:the Op has already been debunked. If you want a concise explanation just zip up to my prior post.
If I understand correctly you merely debunked an argument which wasn’t being made. The question seems to be why the hell is there a deferment time of three years and what anterior motives might there be for it to be in there, not is it literal slavery, no?
by Purgatio » Sun Dec 16, 2018 5:59 am
Sufokia wrote:Purgatio wrote:Last I checked, slave labour means compulsory/mandatory labour, ie you are being forced to work against your voluntary will. I don't see anything in this proposal that suggests the introduction of forced labour, workers who don't like the conditions being suggested can simply not take the job in the first place. What's the big deal.
Why even allow such labor conditions if he cares about the people of Hungary?
by Imperializt Russia » Mon Dec 17, 2018 3:25 am
Imperialisium wrote:Duhon wrote:
Unless it's a Magyar byway for employers to defer payment and for employees to wait for the interminable in unaccountable stoicism, I am going to view this proposed state of affairs as abnormal and prone to abuse.
The law basically increases the allowed amount of hours a person can legally work. Now, the employer still has to pay 1.5 the regular salary of a worker for the overtime. The only difference that this law would feasibly do is if you exceed 250 hours of overtime, from that 251st hour on wards, your employer can defer overtime payment (not regular pay, they cannot have you legally work for free, that breaks fundamental laws in Hungary; in addition if they do not pay you in three years time regardless of no longer working for the company they still have to legally cut you a cheque in back wages) for up to three years.
I hope this helps for any non-Hungarian here trying to grasp how it impacts already established Hungarian law.
Also,Lamadia wrote:dangerous socialist attitude
Imperializt Russia wrote:I'm English, you tit.
by Imperializt Russia » Mon Dec 17, 2018 3:31 am
Also,Lamadia wrote:dangerous socialist attitude
Imperializt Russia wrote:I'm English, you tit.
by Imperialisium » Mon Dec 17, 2018 3:36 am
Imperializt Russia wrote:Imperialisium wrote:
The law basically increases the allowed amount of hours a person can legally work. Now, the employer still has to pay 1.5 the regular salary of a worker for the overtime. The only difference that this law would feasibly do is if you exceed 250 hours of overtime, from that 251st hour on wards, your employer can defer overtime payment (not regular pay, they cannot have you legally work for free, that breaks fundamental laws in Hungary; in addition if they do not pay you in three years time regardless of no longer working for the company they still have to legally cut you a cheque in back wages) for up to three years.
I hope this helps for any non-Hungarian here trying to grasp how it impacts already established Hungarian law.
If you work 251 hours overtime, you have worked all your contractual hours and been paid for them. If you are saying that the 250 hours overtime, even though it's increased, cannot be payment deferred - then you have been paid for that.
Any work you do after the 251st hour is functionally unpaid, until your employer pays it. That would certainly the case if you are a salaried worker. So if you work 258 hours of overtime - ie your obligated overtime (in which case it's not really overtime, but ok), plus one eight-hour shift of "over-overtime" beyond that, you will not be paid for that extra shift, until the company decides to pay you for it.
by Novus Wrepland » Mon Dec 17, 2018 8:42 am
Imperialisium wrote:Novus Wrepland wrote:If I understand correctly you merely debunked an argument which wasn’t being made. The question seems to be why the hell is there a deferment time of three years and what anterior motives might there be for it to be in there, not is it literal slavery, no?
You misunderstand or haven't read the thread based on your response. I was debunking the seemingly literal case being made that it is slavery of some form which the OP and similar minded individuals on here were making. Additionally, I debunk how the apparent case is being made that it is being forced when it's entirely voluntary. The deferment is motivated to stimulate re-investment into the Hungarian economy and allow companies to have a reserve of liquid assets that could be used to offset costs of short term growth. There is no malicious intent here as much as everyone enjoys a good conspiracy they'll find such a thing entirely lacking.
Critics say the overtime law, dubbed as the "slave law" would essentially eliminate the need for employers to pay extra for overtime work, as the overtime hours could simply be offset later by off-time work. The opposition blocked the house speaker's dais and obstructed proceedings with loud whistling and jeering in an attempt to thwart the vote, leading to chaotic scenes unprecedented in parliament.
by Risottia » Mon Dec 17, 2018 9:50 am
by Trumptonium1 » Mon Dec 17, 2018 10:22 am
Risottia wrote:Petrolheadia wrote:Probably repaid with the foreclosure money, like any outstanding company debt.
There's generally a priority order in foreclosures. At least here, the tax agency comes first, then creditor banks, then other creditors, and if there's something left that's given to the workers waiting for their wages. I would venture to guess that something similar happens in Hungary.
by LiberNovusAmericae » Mon Dec 17, 2018 12:45 pm
by Page » Mon Dec 17, 2018 12:47 pm
LiberNovusAmericae wrote:This ain't slavery, but holding an employee's overtime pay for three years is very crumby. That's for sure.
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