Orban wants you! ... as slave labourer

[VoVoDoCo]

I demand you, The New California Republic, to log off of NationStates and never log back on again. Will you? No. Because doing so is voluntary, whether or not I demand it. The use of the word "demand" is loaded to get a particular reaction. And it worked.

PS I wasn't flamming when I told you to never log back on, it was just an example.

The difference here is that you don't really have leverage over me. If my refusal to log out had consequences related to my employment, then that demand very much would be different from volunteering to log out and never log back in again.

Existence of leverage=/=Involuntary

[Ifreann]

I'm sure Hungarian landlords, banks, and utilities providers will be only too happy to push their bills back three years until their customers finally get their overtime pay.

And I'm sure that companies will pay additional interest on the wages and go out of their way to track down temporary staff from 3 years ago.

Oh, no doubt.

---

I'm sure Hungarian landlords, banks, and utilities providers will be only too happy to push their bills back three years until their customers finally get their overtime pay.

I'm sure most Hungarians don't care, because unlike the West, almost everybody in Hungary is a freehold homeowner.

Utilities such as electricity which is just 11 cents per kwh, one third less than in Germany and half of Portugal?

And do you really think the economic situation in Hungary is so precarious that people work overtime to pay for things like electricity and rent? lmao

What they might spend their overtime pay on is beside the point. If workers can be told to wait three years before getting their full wages then surely they can turn around and tell companies to wait three years before getting their full payment for any goods or services.

[Trumptonium1]

I demand you, The New California Republic, to log off of NationStates and never log back on again. Will you? No. Because doing so is voluntary, whether or not I demand it. The use of the word "demand" is loaded to get a particular reaction. And it worked.

PS I wasn't flamming when I told you to never log back on, it was just an example.

You are not his employer. When an employer makes a legal demand and you refuse your employer can fire you.

Except it's voluntary.

Which country has huge protests due to failed policies France or Hungry? This isn't slavery and the hate over this is ridiculous

Mainstream media trying to deflect attention, is all. Best thing they can do is find is 2000 socialist morons screeching in Budapest.

Literally on the same day. They're running out of things to blow out of proportion and don't have any ammunition to stop the worldwide right-turn.

[The New California Republic]

The difference here is that you don't really have leverage over me. If my refusal to log out had consequences related to my employment, then that demand very much would be different from volunteering to log out and never log back in again.

Existence of leverage=/=Involuntary

Having and using leverage over someone does affect whether an act is voluntary or not. After a certain point it is coercion.

[Khataiy]

You are not his employer. When an employer makes a legal demand and you refuse your employer can fire you.

Except it's voluntary.

Which country has huge protests due to failed policies France or Hungry? This isn't slavery and the hate over this is ridiculous

Mainstream media trying to deflect attention, is all. Best thing they can do is find is 2000 socialist morons screeching in Budapest.

Literally on the same day. They're running out of things to blow out of proportion and don't have any ammunition to stop the worldwide right-turn.

I don't doubt that at all this is a clear attempt to take attention away from French failures with their policies

[Republic of Turbin]

I mean this guys had repeatedly treaded the line of dictator which is porbably why the EU placed sanctions on the country.As for the political landscape of Hungary I don’t really know how it is. As for what could be done idk voters will vote against the ruling party or maybe the courts will interve- Oh wait this dude has put government survailence over the judicial system.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washin ... story.html
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co ... e-45498514
Idk what’ll happen maybe those protests will do something ,but someone who is having athouritarian aspirations would probably do anything to keep his powers.At least voters will vote.

[The New California Republic]

You are not his employer. When an employer makes a legal demand and you refuse your employer can fire you.

Except it's voluntary.

Quote from BBC News:

New rules mean companies can demand up to 400 hours of overtime a year and delay payment for it for three years.

[Novus Wrepland]

Except it's voluntary.



Mainstream media trying to deflect attention, is all. Best thing they can do is find is 2000 socialist morons screeching in Budapest.

Literally on the same day. They're running out of things to blow out of proportion and don't have any ammunition to stop the worldwide right-turn.

I don't doubt that at all this is a clear attempt to take attention away from French failures with their policies

Polling indicates the policy is extremely unpopular. Specifically by 83 per cent of the population is opposed.

[Trumptonium1]

And I'm sure that companies will pay additional interest on the wages and go out of their way to track down temporary staff from 3 years ago.

Oh, no doubt.

---

I'm sure most Hungarians don't care, because unlike the West, almost everybody in Hungary is a freehold homeowner.

Utilities such as electricity which is just 11 cents per kwh, one third less than in Germany and half of Portugal?

And do you really think the economic situation in Hungary is so precarious that people work overtime to pay for things like electricity and rent? lmao

What they might spend their overtime pay on is beside the point. If workers can be told to wait three years before getting their full wages then surely they can turn around and tell companies to wait three years before getting their full payment for any goods or services.

No it is very relevant, because to most people in Hungary these payments will matter little. You're making a comparison that doesn't make sense, in order to exaggerate a point you don't have.

Can they tell companies to wait three years? What companies, though? Buying a shirt and paying for it 3 years later is not remotely equivalent to doing work voluntary work and getting paid x time later. More like having a quota of 20kwh a day from your electric provider and using 22 one day.

Besides this is only an option. Just like it's within the Queen's Royal Prerogative to dissolve Parliament in the UK and how Trump can launch a nuke on Beijing tomorrow morning if he wants. The Hungarian labour market is extremely tight, wages are growing at over 10% a year and frankly if any Hungarian has any problem with their employer they can simply leave. Most Hungarians own their own homes and don't have anything like rent or mortgage to worry about. Stop blowing this out of proportion. The chances of this option, however stupid it is, actually being used, is pretty small.

[Trumptonium1]

Except it's voluntary.

Quote from BBC News:

New rules mean companies can demand up to 400 hours of overtime a year and delay payment for it for three years.

Does the BBC have a source for its claim which differs from the ink on the Act, and can BBC provide an explanation for why they are providing a different perspective on the bill than Financial Times, WSJ and Hungarian media outlets, and can the BBC explain why it hasn't offered anything other than rhetoric, like a quote from the Act rather than filling its article with quotes from leftist politicians and trade union reps?

No, no and no.

Aight.

I provided links from FT above which say different.

[Holy Tedalonia]

Forgive me if I’m wrong, but isn’t demand extra workdays without extra time pay just normal workdays...?

[Ifreann]

Oh, no doubt.

---

What they might spend their overtime pay on is beside the point. If workers can be told to wait three years before getting their full wages then surely they can turn around and tell companies to wait three years before getting their full payment for any goods or services.

No it is very relevant, because to most people in Hungary these payments will matter little. You're making a comparison that doesn't make sense, in order to exaggerate a point you don't have.

Can they tell companies to wait three years? What companies, though? Buying a shirt and paying for it 3 years later is not remotely equivalent to doing work voluntary work and getting paid x time later.

Seems to me that "You will receive full payment in three years" and "You will receive full payment in three years" are very much equivalent, even when one is in reference to payment for labour and another is in reference to payment for a t-shirt, or groceries, or a big bag of jelly dicks.

More like having a quota of 20kwh a day from your electric provider and using 22 one day.

Besides this is only an option. Just like it's within the Queen's Royal Prerogative to dissolve Parliament in the UK and how Trump can launch a nuke on Beijing tomorrow morning if he wants. The Hungarian labour market is extremely tight, wages are growing at over 10% a year and frankly if any Hungarian has any problem with their employer they can simply leave. Most Hungarians own their own homes and don't have anything like rent or mortgage to worry about. Stop blowing this out of proportion. The chances of this option, however stupid it is, actually being used, is pretty small.

Then why is it being made an option at all?

[The New California Republic]

I provided links from FT above which say different.

Because paywalled sources are useful...

[Caracasus]

No it is very relevant, because to most people in Hungary these payments will matter little. You're making a comparison that doesn't make sense, in order to exaggerate a point you don't have.

Can they tell companies to wait three years? What companies, though? Buying a shirt and paying for it 3 years later is not remotely equivalent to doing work voluntary work and getting paid x time later.

Seems to me that "You will receive full payment in three years" and "You will receive full payment in three years" are very much equivalent, even when one is in reference to payment for labour and another is in reference to payment for a t-shirt, or groceries, or a big bag of jelly dicks.

More like having a quota of 20kwh a day from your electric provider and using 22 one day.

Besides this is only an option. Just like it's within the Queen's Royal Prerogative to dissolve Parliament in the UK and how Trump can launch a nuke on Beijing tomorrow morning if he wants. The Hungarian labour market is extremely tight, wages are growing at over 10% a year and frankly if any Hungarian has any problem with their employer they can simply leave. Most Hungarians own their own homes and don't have anything like rent or mortgage to worry about. Stop blowing this out of proportion. The chances of this option, however stupid it is, actually being used, is pretty small.

Then why is it being made an option at all?

One involves people who sell their labour, the other involves commerce. It's blatantly clear the hungariam government sides with the financial elite at the expense of the workers.

[Neutraligon]

The difference here is that you don't really have leverage over me. If my refusal to log out had consequences related to my employment, then that demand very much would be different from volunteering to log out and never log back in again.

Existence of leverage=/=Involuntary

I have a gun to your head telling you I will shoot you unless you give me all your money. You hand it over. Did you hand over the money voluntarily?

[Telconi]

Existence of leverage=/=Involuntary

I have a gun to your head telling you I will shoot you unless you give me all your money. You hand it over. Did you hand over the money voluntarily?

Presumably yes, unless the gun also has mind control powers...

[Caracasus]

I love the 'voluntary arrangement' arguments. They so clearly come from someone who has never, ever had to worry about where the next meal is coming from, or the next rent payment.

[Trumptonium1]

I don't doubt that at all this is a clear attempt to take attention away from French failures with their policies

Polling indicates the policy is extremely unpopular. Specifically by 83 per cent of the population is opposed.

"PolicyAgendaHU" is pretty dodgy, it is funded by trade unions, it releases half-year economic forecasts every 5 years (and gets them very wrong) and it publishes "living wage" predictions without explaining methodology. It has a grand team of three employees. One of them is Peter Krausz who is an adviser to the socialist opposition party MSZP.

So I'll take the punt and say the poll isn't very reliable.

[Prusenreich]

Just being honest this is Hungary's issue and they can whatever law they want (as long as it doesn't directly affect another nation)

[Trumptonium1]

No it is very relevant, because to most people in Hungary these payments will matter little. You're making a comparison that doesn't make sense, in order to exaggerate a point you don't have.

Can they tell companies to wait three years? What companies, though? Buying a shirt and paying for it 3 years later is not remotely equivalent to doing work voluntary work and getting paid x time later.

Seems to me that "You will receive full payment in three years" and "You will receive full payment in three years" are very much equivalent, even when one is in reference to payment for labour and another is in reference to payment for a t-shirt, or groceries, or a big bag of jelly dicks.

Why don't you ask your government to give you interest on tax refunds then, since companies are legally bound to pay interest on late refunds?

Or ... maybe that's not how equivalency works.

More like having a quota of 20kwh a day from your electric provider and using 22 one day.

Besides this is only an option. Just like it's within the Queen's Royal Prerogative to dissolve Parliament in the UK and how Trump can launch a nuke on Beijing tomorrow morning if he wants. The Hungarian labour market is extremely tight, wages are growing at over 10% a year and frankly if any Hungarian has any problem with their employer they can simply leave. Most Hungarians own their own homes and don't have anything like rent or mortgage to worry about. Stop blowing this out of proportion. The chances of this option, however stupid it is, actually being used, is pretty small.

Then why is it being made an option at all?

Don't know. Do you know why the French President has the option to name one third of the Supreme Court at will? I don't either. Governments do stupid things, water is wet.

[Ifreann]

Seems to me that "You will receive full payment in three years" and "You will receive full payment in three years" are very much equivalent, even when one is in reference to payment for labour and another is in reference to payment for a t-shirt, or groceries, or a big bag of jelly dicks.


Then why is it being made an option at all?

One involves people who sell their labour, the other involves commerce. It's blatantly clear the hungariam government sides with the financial elite at the expense of the workers.

`How very shocking.

[Trumptonium1]

I provided links from FT above which say different.

Because paywalled sources are useful...

Use incognito. Are you new to the internet?

[Caracasus]

One involves people who sell their labour, the other involves commerce. It's blatantly clear the hungariam government sides with the financial elite at the expense of the workers.

`How very shocking.

I know. So unlike a populist rightwing government.

[Teachian]

Feel like people are knitpicking the “slavery” part a little too much. Yeah, it’s pretty much hyperbole, given that in modern society we will (probably) never be forced to toil unpaid in horrible conditions, but debating over it stinks of semantics.

If people want to work extra hours to earn more, great for them. The most suspect part for me is the three year delay, since I don’t see the inherent necessity to it and people have pointed out a lot of what can go wrong over a three year period. There also seems to be a lack of consensus over whether the extra hours can be mandated or not. If I can choose to work extra hours, I’m fine, but if a company is telling me I’ll work extra but might not see that pay until three years later, I’m going to be pretty annoyed.

[Telconi]

I love the 'voluntary arrangement' arguments. They so clearly come from someone who has never, ever had to worry about where the next meal is coming from, or the next rent payment.

I love the "everyone who disagrees with me is certainly liking their caviar from a silver spoon" arguments. They so clearly come from someone who doesn't know what they're talking about whatsoever.