by VoVoDoCo » Sat Dec 08, 2018 10:24 pm
by VoVoDoCo » Sun Dec 09, 2018 1:17 am
Care Lyon wrote:Why not have Intelligence, Crime rate, or Corruption level shown? The thing is there are so many factors that it really doesn't matter.
by VoVoDoCo » Sun Dec 09, 2018 1:27 am
Care Lyon wrote:Why not have Intelligence, Crime rate, or Corruption level shown? The thing is there are so many factors that it really doesn't matter.
by Care Lyon » Sun Dec 09, 2018 1:29 am
VoVoDoCo wrote:Care Lyon wrote:Why not have Intelligence, Crime rate, or Corruption level shown? The thing is there are so many factors that it really doesn't matter.
The difference between two countries with ALL stats being similar with only economic freedom being different could mean the difference between a Laissez-faire nation, Nordic model nation, or a communist nation. Those are HUGE differences.
The difference between two countries with all stats being similar with only intellegence rates being different only tells you how much each nation spends on education and religious policies. Those are super small groups.
The reason civil rights has its own green-red stat spot on our homepages is to make it clear at a glance how intrusive that nation's government is in the personal lives of its citizens. I only want the same for economic freedoms.
by Care Lyon » Sun Dec 09, 2018 1:35 am
VoVoDoCo wrote:Care Lyon wrote:Why not have Intelligence, Crime rate, or Corruption level shown? The thing is there are so many factors that it really doesn't matter.
Another way of looking at it is to view your own homepage.
You're a Corporate Bordello. Right underneath of that are 2/3 stats that earned you that classification.
- Why not add that third one for the sake of completeness?
- Why not add that third one to be fair to conservative nations?
- Why not add that third one to make card collecting (which hopefully will be online soon) easier?
- Since Corporate Bordellos can have different stats amongst themselves (albeit very SMALL differences), why not add that just to clarify which level of economic freedom YOUR corporate bordello is?
After all, it's the combination of civil rights, political freedoms, AND economic freedoms that earn everyone their WA classification. Since 2 out of three are listed underneath their WA classification, wouldn't it be best to list the third as well? Is it not a problem that communist nations, moderate left nations, and Libertarian nations all have stats that look borderline identical, despite having RADICALLY different policy choices in those areas?
by VoVoDoCo » Sun Dec 09, 2018 1:38 am
Care Lyon wrote:VoVoDoCo wrote:The difference between two countries with ALL stats being similar with only economic freedom being different could mean the difference between a Laissez-faire nation, Nordic model nation, or a communist nation. Those are HUGE differences.
The difference between two countries with all stats being similar with only intellegence rates being different only tells you how much each nation spends on education and religious policies. Those are super small groups.
The reason civil rights has its own green-red stat spot on our homepages is to make it clear at a glance how intrusive that nation's government is in the personal lives of its citizens. I only want the same for economic freedoms.
Why not have Authoritarianism, Corruption, or even Average Disposable Income? The thing is many of the stats are actually the same, and some are opposites. I think the primary three (Civil Rights, Economy, and Political Freedom) are enough to give a brief summary of a nation.
by VoVoDoCo » Sun Dec 09, 2018 1:40 am
Care Lyon wrote:VoVoDoCo wrote:Another way of looking at it is to view your own homepage.
You're a Corporate Bordello. Right underneath of that are 2/3 stats that earned you that classification.
- Why not add that third one for the sake of completeness?
- Why not add that third one to be fair to conservative nations?
- Why not add that third one to make card collecting (which hopefully will be online soon) easier?
- Since Corporate Bordellos can have different stats amongst themselves (albeit very SMALL differences), why not add that just to clarify which level of economic freedom YOUR corporate bordello is?
After all, it's the combination of civil rights, political freedoms, AND economic freedoms that earn everyone their WA classification. Since 2 out of three are listed underneath their WA classification, wouldn't it be best to list the third as well? Is it not a problem that communist nations, moderate left nations, and Libertarian nations all have stats that look borderline identical, despite having RADICALLY different policy choices in those areas?
The NS Classification changes primarily over the three main stats on your nation's page. I don't see any reason why any change is needed.
by Care Lyon » Sun Dec 09, 2018 1:42 am
VoVoDoCo wrote:Care Lyon wrote:
Why not have Authoritarianism, Corruption, or even Average Disposable Income? The thing is many of the stats are actually the same, and some are opposites. I think the primary three (Civil Rights, Economy, and Political Freedom) are enough to give a brief summary of a nation.
Put those three stats don't tell you anything about how their economy got strong. Let's compare three democracies with good economies:
- Nation A- Green stat civil rights+green stat economy+green stat political freedoms
- Nation B- Yucky brown civil rights+green stat economy+green stat political freedoms
- Nation C- Green stat civil rights+green stat economy+green stat political freedoms
Which one is the left winged, right winged, and Libertarian one? You probably know which is the right winged one, because due to the current set up with these stats conservative nations automatically look inferior. Immediately. Based on nothing but color scheme. Can you tell the other two apart?
The reason these home pages exists is to provide a general outline of the nation. The reason those three stats on top exist is to provide as much data as possible without reading. It fails to do this.
by VoVoDoCo » Sun Dec 09, 2018 1:42 am
by VoVoDoCo » Sun Dec 09, 2018 1:44 am
Care Lyon wrote:VoVoDoCo wrote:Put those three stats don't tell you anything about how their economy got strong. Let's compare three democracies with good economies:
- Nation A- Green stat civil rights+green stat economy+green stat political freedoms
- Nation B- Yucky brown civil rights+green stat economy+green stat political freedoms
- Nation C- Green stat civil rights+green stat economy+green stat political freedoms
Which one is the left winged, right winged, and Libertarian one? You probably know which is the right winged one, because due to the current set up with these stats conservative nations automatically look inferior. Immediately. Based on nothing but color scheme. Can you tell the other two apart?
The reason these home pages exists is to provide a general outline of the nation. The reason those three stats on top exist is to provide as much data as possible without reading. It fails to do this.
"Put those three stats don't tell you anything about how their economy got strong." They don't have to, that is why there are line graphs with historical nation trends. Do you want those on the main page too?
by Care Lyon » Sun Dec 09, 2018 1:48 am
VoVoDoCo wrote:Care Lyon wrote:
"Put those three stats don't tell you anything about how their economy got strong." They don't have to, that is why there are line graphs with historical nation trends. Do you want those on the main page too?
Of course not. I don't want line graphs for civil rights and political freedoms on those pages. I just want economic freedom (one third of your WA classification) to be treated as fairly as the other two-thirds.
by VoVoDoCo » Sun Dec 09, 2018 1:54 am
Care Lyon wrote:VoVoDoCo wrote:Of course not. I don't want line graphs for civil rights and political freedoms on those pages. I just want economic freedom (one third of your WA classification) to be treated as fairly as the other two-thirds.
I honestly don't see what the fuss is about. The main page displays a summary of a nation, 1. and if you want more in depth details, the option is there. Additionally, you can 2.write fact books to add more information. 3.IMO Economic Freedom is important but I just don't care if it is on the main page or not.
by VoVoDoCo » Sun Dec 09, 2018 2:02 am
by Merconitonitopia » Sun Dec 09, 2018 2:02 am
by Care Lyon » Sun Dec 09, 2018 2:04 am
VoVoDoCo wrote:In fact Care Lyon, we're both corporate bordellos. But you score 20 whole points ahead of me in economic freedom (good job), that's huge! If it wasn't for this debate I wouldn't have bothered to look. You have way more economic freedom than me, yet despite the fact that I've look at your homepage numerous times (I've seen you around the forum and I always click interesting looking flags or similarly categorized nations), I could've sworn we were in the same circles.
The current system just. Doesn't. Work.
And don't say, "See! You saw my economic freedom stat without a homepage update." I never would've seen it had it not been for this debate. I haven't read your factbooks (or checked to see if you had one honestly) and this just proves just how pitiful our homepages are representing our core economic beliefs.
by Merconitonitopia » Sun Dec 09, 2018 2:08 am
by VoVoDoCo » Sun Dec 09, 2018 2:09 am
Merconitonitopia wrote:Not until Human Development Index gets added to the trendline!
I would be against this. Economic freedoms are already indicated o n the homepage in many ways. It dictates UN category, which in turn dictates the country's description. It is related to the income tax rate, which is readily displayed. The description of the nation's economy covers what is already displayed on the economy chart.
by VoVoDoCo » Sun Dec 09, 2018 2:14 am
Care Lyon wrote:VoVoDoCo wrote:In fact Care Lyon, we're both corporate bordellos. But you score 20 whole points ahead of me in economic freedom (good job), that's huge! If it wasn't for this debate I wouldn't have bothered to look. You have way more economic freedom than me, yet despite the fact that I've look at your homepage numerous times (I've seen you around the forum and I always click interesting looking flags or similarly categorized nations), I could've sworn we were in the same circles.
The current system just. Doesn't. Work.
And don't say, "See! You saw my economic freedom stat without a homepage update." I never would've seen it had it not been for this debate. I haven't read your factbooks (or checked to see if you had one honestly) and this just proves just how pitiful our homepages are representing our core economic beliefs.
Here is a social democratic like state that has high economic freedom.
https://www.nationstates.net/nation=cli ... ensusid=48
by Merconitonitopia » Sun Dec 09, 2018 2:39 am
VoVoDoCo wrote:It does dictate the UN category, but despite me and Care Lyon being in the same category, it failed to mention that (s)he was 20 points higher than me in economic freedom, which is huge.
Also, do you have the differences between a Right Winged Utopia and a Moralistic Democracy without looking? Probably not.
Tax rates are by no means of way of judging the willingness of nations to pursue free market solutions.
The description of the economy is more times than not a roast of right winged economics and is often very wrong. For instance, my nation's economic description says "Their poorer citizens, however, are mostly starving to death" despite me having a high obesity rate and hdi.
If you're referring to the part that says something like, "driven almost entirely by the private sector" , that's so vague it lacks any substance.
by Merconitonitopia » Sun Dec 09, 2018 2:41 am
VoVoDoCo wrote:Exactly. Based off that person's tax rates, you would assume they were socialist. That's why economic freedom needs its own stat on our homepages, to avoid confusion.
by VoVoDoCo » Sun Dec 09, 2018 2:53 am
Merconitonitopia wrote:"It also doesn't even hint at a lot of the stats that are notable about a country."
Merconitonitopia wrote:"Oh, this country probably has laissez-faire economic policy" doesn't spring into my mind when I read "Moralistic Democracy", but it'd be almost obvious were the country labeled "Right-wing Utopia".
Merconitonitopia wrote:"That's a silly statement, for a libertarian no less!"
Merconitonitopia wrote:"Good ol' Max Barry's bias eh? Either way, it gets the point across that your country is highly Darwinian, presumably with few protections and safety nets for the "disadvantaged". It communicates substantive and easily digestible information about a country's economy (even if it is ultimately an untrue assumption judging by the fact that your poor actually have a fairly high average income.)"
Merconitonitopia wrote:"Are you honestly joking? How more tangible and substantive an indicator of economic liberalism could you get than that?"
by VoVoDoCo » Sun Dec 09, 2018 2:57 am
Merconitonitopia wrote:VoVoDoCo wrote:Exactly. Based off that person's tax rates, you would assume they were socialist. That's why economic freedom needs its own stat on our homepages, to avoid confusion.
Ha. Just checked their tax rate. Makes you wonder what exactly they're doing with the remaining 50% of people's income.
by Merconitonitopia » Sun Dec 09, 2018 3:02 am
VoVoDoCo wrote:I'm not trying to squeeze every stat into every homepage. But our WA classifications are divided into 3 equally important parts, one of those, for some reason, require investigation to figure out. Or you have to make assumptions based on the rest of the homepage, which we've proven can be faulty at best.
VoVoDoCo wrote:Me and Care Lyon both have that description, despite him being a whole 20 points ahead of me in that category.
Advertisement
Users browsing this forum: Ahlgrim, Anacharsia, Countriopia, Domais, East Chimore, Fauzjhia, Geopolity, Giovanniland, Joaozinho, Khantin, Maximum Imperium Rex, New Sunville, Shefinland, Telnuhq, The Demon Duke, The Whimslands, Tungstan
Advertisement