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Must Santa always be an fat old white guy?

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Cetacea
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Must Santa always be an fat old white guy?

Postby Cetacea » Tue Dec 04, 2018 3:30 pm

So while other countries deal with gun violence, climate change and child sex trafficking, New Zealand this month has faced no less than two controversies concerning Santa and whether Santa parades can have the jolly Elf portrayed 1) by a Women 2) by another ethnicity (in this case a NZ Maori dressed in a red feather cloak)

People have lost jobs over the debate, Media commentators have had a field day and City Mayors have been forced to apologies to the nation. The fact they are debating a fictional character/marketing gimmick seems to have been overlooked in favour of outrage about tradition and anti-PC-ism.

So oh festive revellers of NSG as we wait for the lolly scramble could you gift me with your opinions - would you be outraged/saddened or confused if your communities local public Santa was non-standard Gender or Ethnicity? Can Santa be portrayed as anything other than a fat old white man?

https://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national ... son-locals
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/109054 ... aori-santa
https://www.stuff.co.nz/auckland/108860 ... -the-boots
Last edited by Cetacea on Tue Dec 04, 2018 3:37 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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Loben
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Postby Loben » Tue Dec 04, 2018 3:31 pm

Does it matter.

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Vassenor
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Postby Vassenor » Tue Dec 04, 2018 3:31 pm

Cetacea wrote:So while other countries deal with gun violence, climate change and child sex trafficking, New Zealand this month has faced no less than two controversies concerning Santa and whether Santa parades can have the jolly Elf portrayed 1) by a Women 2) by another ethnicity (in this case a NZ Maori dressed in a red feather cloak)

People have lost jobs over the debate, Media commentators have had a field day and City Mayors have been forced to apologies to the nation. The fact they are debating a fictional character/marketing gimmick seems to have been overlooked in favour of outrage about tradition and anti-PC-ism.

So oh festive revellers of NSG as we wait for the lolly scramble could you gift me with your opinions - would you be outraged/saddened or confused should your communities local Santa was non-standard Gender or Ethnicity? Can Santa be portrayed aas anything other than a fat old white man?


Considering how many pagan mythological figures the modern corporate Santa is an awkward mishmash of? Why not?
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Idzequitch
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Postby Idzequitch » Tue Dec 04, 2018 3:33 pm

Is this cultural appropriation?

It's not a big deal. Traditionally he's an old white guy. It's not a huge deal if he's not portrayed that way.
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Freezic Vast
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Postby Freezic Vast » Tue Dec 04, 2018 3:34 pm

Yes, move on.
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Semparia
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Postby Semparia » Tue Dec 04, 2018 3:34 pm

maybe we need ww3

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The Huskar Social Union
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Postby The Huskar Social Union » Tue Dec 04, 2018 3:35 pm

Who cares, the jolly cunt aint real anyway and is knicked from a bunch of fuckers from all over the shop

So yeah, bring unto yer maori santa claus chick and her fancy cloak, it doesnt matter. There is going to be different portrayals of characters anyway, dont get worked up over it.
Last edited by The Huskar Social Union on Tue Dec 04, 2018 3:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby New haven america » Tue Dec 04, 2018 3:38 pm

IDC, Santa can be whatever he wants.

Fun fact: In the tv series Recess, he was black.
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Ostroeuropa
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Postby Ostroeuropa » Tue Dec 04, 2018 3:38 pm

I think it depends on the depiction and the logic behind it. There's been movies where Santa is a Rorschach for those around him and see him as their respective race/gender and how Santa is not actually any of them specifically.

This strikes me as acceptable and not inconsistent with the lore. There's also white dude depictions, likewise consistent with the lore given the characters history.

If you're depicting Santa as a christmas entity who is not and has not been human but just sort of happened, then depicting them as any race or gender seems fine to me provided it isn't asserted they are in fact that race/gender. (I.E, it's fine to have a santa who looks like a black woman. Because Santa is not a black woman, not a white man, and this is merely how they present themselves to us.).

If you're depicting Santa as Saint Nicholas or S.N who has transformed into a christmas entity, they pretty much should be a white male.

There's also a mishmash of these two by which you can portray Santa as Saint Nicholas who merged with the spirit of christmas, thereby ceasing to be solely a white male and capable of presenting differently, but who tends toward white maleness because it's what he's most used to.


And then we get to The Santa Clause depiction, where Santa is a title that is handed down upon the previous holders death. This interpretation is acceptable to have minorities and women too, but is likely to go over less well because it involves telling children who say "i thought Santa was a white guy" straight up "Santa's dead kid, i'm his understudy."

The worst of them is going "No, ur wrong, Santa was always a black woman."

If minorities or women are depicting Santa, they should roll with the first explanation. This might piss off some tribalists on both sides since it involves specific denial and rejection of "Black Santa" and so on at the same time as rejecting "White Santa.", but is the only means (other than Clause), by which Santa can be portrayed as a minority or woman without straining credulity beyond that which is normally expected for a Santa depiction.

In terms of "representation" however it also provides the most room to maneuver and allows multiple combinations of demographic to be presented throughout the event, and also provides a means for mall santas to explain away the situation in various means AND explain away how all the various white guy Santas look "Different.".
Last edited by Ostroeuropa on Tue Dec 04, 2018 3:44 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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The Black Party
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Postby The Black Party » Tue Dec 04, 2018 3:40 pm

This calls for a revolution.
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Gartonch
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Postby Gartonch » Tue Dec 04, 2018 3:41 pm

Yes, he will always be an old fat white guy because... you know... :bow: WHITE SUPREMACY :bow:

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Vassenor
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Postby Vassenor » Tue Dec 04, 2018 3:41 pm

The Huskar Social Union wrote:Who cares, the jolly cunt aint real anyway and is knicked from a bunch of fuckers from all over the shop

So yeah, bring unto yer maori santa claus chick and her fancy cloak, it doesnt matter. There is going to be different portrayals of characters anyway, dont get worked up over it.


We have enough problems already. What with the Dutch blackface thing and all.
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Hrythingia
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Postby Hrythingia » Tue Dec 04, 2018 3:43 pm

Who Santa is such a mishmash of things anyway...
That said, the modern interpretation is essentially that of Saint Nicholas with a wee bit of Woden the Wanderer thrown in, plus gift bearing and red suits. I've seen all sorts of stupid interpretations of Santa, including a crucified santa in a Japanese shop window which made me unsure whether to laugh or cry.
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Merconitonitopia
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Postby Merconitonitopia » Tue Dec 04, 2018 3:45 pm

I don't disagree with a non-white Santa in principle, but upon seeing these 'offending' Santas in question, I must remark that they aren't all that festive-looking.
A woman Santa doesn't really make much sense given we already have Mrs. Claus, although I suppose it's acceptable if she's a particularly jolly woman.
But fat? Yes, he must be fat. Let's not get carried away here.
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Vassenor
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Postby Vassenor » Tue Dec 04, 2018 3:45 pm

Bring back Saturnalia.
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Rusthenia
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Postby Rusthenia » Tue Dec 04, 2018 3:46 pm

if Santa is St. Nicholas as an Christmas..... deity? then he must be an white male, if an Christmas deity that isn't St. Nicholas then whatever man, just gotta be male
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Berhakonia
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Postby Berhakonia » Tue Dec 04, 2018 3:46 pm

Would you rather want him being portrayed as a Roman Robin Hood, going around slapping heretics at councils?

I mean, I would
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Vassenor
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Postby Vassenor » Tue Dec 04, 2018 3:46 pm

Rusthenia wrote:if Santa is St. Nicholas as an Christmas..... deity? then he must be an white male, if an Christmas deity that isn't St. Nicholas then whatever man, just gotta be male


Why? Do you have a list of every single deity worshipped as part of the winter solstice?
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Rusthenia
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Postby Rusthenia » Tue Dec 04, 2018 3:48 pm

Vassenor wrote:
Rusthenia wrote:if Santa is St. Nicholas as an Christmas..... deity? then he must be an white male, if an Christmas deity that isn't St. Nicholas then whatever man, just gotta be male


Why? Do you have a list of every single deity worshipped as part of the winter solstice?


because St. Nicholas was an white male. and https://www.thoughtco.com/deities-of-th ... ce-2562976, but were talking about Santa. and must Winter deities are Male.
Last edited by Rusthenia on Tue Dec 04, 2018 3:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
USS Monitor wrote:It's long...

✷A Marxist-Leninist state in Eurasian and the Alaskan Peninsula★
Moskva Chronicle: Vassili Karantirov dies! Lada Smirnov assumes control. Neo-Paganism grows in the USSR. The first Congress of European Ethic Religions is held in Novgorod. 
International Coverage: Greece changes it's national religion to Hellenism. The Irish Republic changes it's national religion to Celtic Paganism. The "Year of Paganism" begins.

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Indo-Malaysia
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Postby Indo-Malaysia » Tue Dec 04, 2018 3:49 pm

Rusthenia wrote:if Santa is St. Nicholas as an Christmas..... deity? then he must be an white male, if an Christmas deity that isn't St. Nicholas then whatever man, just gotta be male

We need this

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PR New England
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Postby PR New England » Tue Dec 04, 2018 3:49 pm

Cetacea wrote:So while other countries deal with gun violence, climate change and child sex trafficking, New Zealand this month has faced no less than two controversies concerning Santa and whether Santa parades can have the jolly Elf portrayed 1) by a Women 2) by another ethnicity (in this case a NZ Maori dressed in a red feather cloak)

People have lost jobs over the debate, Media commentators have had a field day and City Mayors have been forced to apologies to the nation. The fact they are debating a fictional character/marketing gimmick seems to have been overlooked in favour of outrage about tradition and anti-PC-ism.

So oh festive revellers of NSG as we wait for the lolly scramble could you gift me with your opinions - would you be outraged/saddened or confused if your communities local public Santa was non-standard Gender or Ethnicity? Can Santa be portrayed as anything other than a fat old white man?

https://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national ... son-locals
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/109054 ... aori-santa
https://www.stuff.co.nz/auckland/108860 ... -the-boots

I honestly don't care. If corporations want to make Santa woke/stunning and brave, that's okay with me because Jesus is the real focus of Christmas and Santa is just a Coca-Cola commercial. [1]
May 30, 1981: Clashes between black and white nationalists have been broken up by Louisiana police. President Dave Treen says that though the protest has been broken up and leaders on both sides have been arrested, there is still an environment of ethnic strife in Louisiana.

Current National Focus: People's Continental Army (40 days left)

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Rusthenia
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Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Rusthenia » Tue Dec 04, 2018 3:50 pm

Indo-Malaysia wrote:
Rusthenia wrote:if Santa is St. Nicholas as an Christmas..... deity? then he must be an white male, if an Christmas deity that isn't St. Nicholas then whatever man, just gotta be male

We need this

Deus vult


Deus vult? WE MUST RETAKE JERUSALEM DEUS VULT DEUS VULT!
USS Monitor wrote:It's long...

✷A Marxist-Leninist state in Eurasian and the Alaskan Peninsula★
Moskva Chronicle: Vassili Karantirov dies! Lada Smirnov assumes control. Neo-Paganism grows in the USSR. The first Congress of European Ethic Religions is held in Novgorod. 
International Coverage: Greece changes it's national religion to Hellenism. The Irish Republic changes it's national religion to Celtic Paganism. The "Year of Paganism" begins.

NStats not used.

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Hrythingia
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Ex-Nation

Postby Hrythingia » Tue Dec 04, 2018 3:51 pm

PR New England wrote:
Cetacea wrote:So while other countries deal with gun violence, climate change and child sex trafficking, New Zealand this month has faced no less than two controversies concerning Santa and whether Santa parades can have the jolly Elf portrayed 1) by a Women 2) by another ethnicity (in this case a NZ Maori dressed in a red feather cloak)

People have lost jobs over the debate, Media commentators have had a field day and City Mayors have been forced to apologies to the nation. The fact they are debating a fictional character/marketing gimmick seems to have been overlooked in favour of outrage about tradition and anti-PC-ism.

So oh festive revellers of NSG as we wait for the lolly scramble could you gift me with your opinions - would you be outraged/saddened or confused if your communities local public Santa was non-standard Gender or Ethnicity? Can Santa be portrayed as anything other than a fat old white man?

https://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national ... son-locals
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/109054 ... aori-santa
https://www.stuff.co.nz/auckland/108860 ... -the-boots

I honestly don't care. If corporations want to make Santa woke/stunning and brave, that's okay with me because Jesus is the real focus of Christmas and Santa is just a Coca-Cola commercial. [1]

HEAR HEAR. I mean I'm all up for some festive cheer, mulled wine, roast goose and all the rest of it. But ultimately it is about Christ coming to earth in order to save mankind.
The Wielderdom of Hrythingia
Þæs Ƿealdaríċe Hrýðinglondes

State type: Semi-Elective Monarchy
Leader: Earl Wynmar II of The Ashwold, Hrythwealda
Capital: Ernburh
Language: Hrystic (Old English)
Religion: Catholicism
Characteristics: Isolationist, mercantile, conservative, rural, deeply religious
Industries: sheep/beef agriculture, fishing, offshore oil, financial services
Britonnis nati, Anglis Dei Gratia! A Catholic Conservative Briton, Late Antiquities Student and Reservist Officer in training. Interests: hunting, rugby, choral music, history, literature, linguistics and alcohol.

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Heloin
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Postby Heloin » Tue Dec 04, 2018 3:51 pm

Santa is Saami.
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And the band played on, and the soldiers marched along, and they sang the Sweet Banana song.

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PR New England
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Ex-Nation

Postby PR New England » Tue Dec 04, 2018 3:52 pm

Heloin wrote:Santa is Saami.

Ogay, dis is ebin :DDD
May 30, 1981: Clashes between black and white nationalists have been broken up by Louisiana police. President Dave Treen says that though the protest has been broken up and leaders on both sides have been arrested, there is still an environment of ethnic strife in Louisiana.

Current National Focus: People's Continental Army (40 days left)

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