NS Rugby Discussion Thread (v.2)

[Elejamie]

-SNIP-

It probably helps, Elejamie, if you name a deadline for nominations when you get the post up rather than leave it for roughly a fortnight after. The deadline, by the way, is December 1st at 00:00 UTC (which'll be November 30th at 6pm CST). It's very simple, really, all you have to do is put a post in this thread nominating someone or yourself for whatever role (League VP, Union VP or Sevens VP)*. You can't nominate Lisander for any role, however, as he's the outgoing League VP and he'll be too busy with college to do any roles, so we desperately need a new League VP. (EDIT: Neu Engollon's also stepping down, so we'd need a new Union VP. I'm still planning on staying as Sevens VP but feel free to challenge me).

*And yes, despite the fact that I absolute LOATHE the series it comes from (or at least the film adaptation, which has really put me off reading the books), you can say "I volunteer as tribute" if you're nominating yourself.

[Darmen]

...so we desperately need a new League VP.

Raises hand... waves.

I've not really held any leadership positions in NSSport before, at least not officially, but I feel like I've been around long enough in the community to take a shot at a leadership position. Consider this me nominating myself. Of course, if anyone else wants to challenge me for the spot, I more than welcome the competition.

[Neu Engollon]

...so we desperately need a new League VP.

Raises hand... waves.

I've not really held any leadership positions in NSSport before, at least not officially, but I feel like I've been around long enough in the community to take a shot at a leadership position. Consider this me nominating myself. Of course, if anyone else wants to challenge me for the spot, I more than welcome the competition.

I second.

I would also like to step down. I'm ready to take a break from NSRB Executive Council and the only way I would stay on is if we absolutely have no one else who will step forward and do it. Under other personas, I run two regions and a socialist organization on NS, besides RL commitments. Every time I focus on one thing on NS, I have to neglect another. It's time for me to cut back and I have other projects I'd like to focus on. I have enjoyed my time on the NSRB Exec Council and I think we're on the right course, but I also think it needs people that will be both responsible and have the time on their hands to make things run smoothly, as well as fresh leadership.

[Apox]

I could stand for Union VP. I have previous experience running things, having been Union VP in 2014/15 (I think it was around then) as well as being a past WCC President and the current de-facto joint President of the GCF in cricket.

[Neu Engollon]

I could stand for Union VP. I have previous experience running things, having been Union VP in 2014/15 (I think it was around then) as well as being a past WCC President and the current de-facto joint President of the GCF in cricket.

I would definitely vote for an Apox-Darmen-Elejamie platform. Although, then we'd be short a Club VP, unless Apox held dual posts.

[Elejamie]

I could stand for Union VP. I have previous experience running things, having been Union VP in 2014/15 (I think it was around then) as well as being a past WCC President and the current de-facto joint President of the GCF in cricket.

I would definitely vote for an Apox-Darmen-Elejamie platform. Although, then we'd be short a Club VP, unless Apox held dual posts.

Or if the League and Union VPs took care of club-related stuff dedicated to their respective code. Like, the Union VP would take care of the RWC and the RUCT, whereas the League president will take care of the RLWC and whatever the league equivalent of RUCT is (IRLCC?). Due to the nature of sevens, I don't think there'll be an international club competition for it (or at the very least not like the RUCT) so I won't have to worry about it what with me not having a scorinator (because Chromebook).

Again, just an idea and feel free to agree or disagree, everyone.

[Apox]

I could stand for Union VP. I have previous experience running things, having been Union VP in 2014/15 (I think it was around then) as well as being a past WCC President and the current de-facto joint President of the GCF in cricket.

I would definitely vote for an Apox-Darmen-Elejamie platform. Although, then we'd be short a Club VP, unless Apox held dual posts.

I've been talking fairly regularly with Ko-oren over timings for running RUCT & IRLCC around the same time as each other - I'd be happy to hold Club VP in a dual role, or offer it to Ko-oren. I think it would be better having whoever is running one of the tournaments be Club VP rather than one of the other VPs - mainly because someone running the domestic competitions has expressed interest and willingness to host. While many people are capable of hosting and holding management positions in this community, I don't think additional pressure of having to host one of the domestic tournaments should come with being a NSRB VP.

[Ko-oren]

I would definitely vote for an Apox-Darmen-Elejamie platform. Although, then we'd be short a Club VP, unless Apox held dual posts.

I've been talking fairly regularly with Ko-oren over timings for running RUCT & IRLCC around the same time as each other - I'd be happy to hold Club VP in a dual role, or offer it to Ko-oren. I think it would be better having whoever is running one of the tournaments be Club VP rather than one of the other VPs - mainly because someone running the domestic competitions has expressed interest and willingness to host. While many people are capable of hosting and holding management positions in this community, I don't think additional pressure of having to host one of the domestic tournaments should come with being a NSRB VP.

I'd be ok with either of these options. A dual role might make most sense, given that we both run a competition, but if you already hold a post, and people don't have too many objections, I could hold the post of Club VP.

[Darmen]

The deadline, by the way, is December 1st at 00:00 UTC (which'll be November 30th at 6pm CST).

^Points.^

[Elejamie]

The deadline, by the way, is December 1st at 00:00 UTC (which'll be November 30th at 6pm CST).

^Points.^

I knew I forgot to do something. Besides, with just two people volunteering (one for each position needed), should we still go ahead with voting or just instate you and Apox as league and union VPs immediately?

[Darmen]

I knew I forgot to do something. Besides, with just two people volunteering (one for each position needed), should we still go ahead with voting or just instate you and Apox as league and union VPs immediately?

While I don't foresee much opposition to either myself or Apox as VPs, I think its only fair that a vote is held, just in case. A simple approve, disapprove vote should do the trick. But if no one else feels a vote is necessary, I'm OK if we forego the vote.

[Hutanjia]

I knew I forgot to do something. Besides, with just two people volunteering (one for each position needed), should we still go ahead with voting or just instate you and Apox as league and union VPs immediately?

While I don't foresee much opposition to either myself or Apox as VPs, I think its only fair that a vote is held, just in case. A simple approve, disapprove vote should do the trick. But if no one else feels a vote is necessary, I'm OK if we forego the vote.

Voting should happen. Not saying I'm opposed to the candidates, but things should be done by the book, when it comes to proper parliamentary procedure and ensuring that no one can question an appointment after the fact.

[NS Rugby Board Executive Council]

A lot longer than it should've been but here it finally is. The voting. And here are your nominations:

Darmen for league VP
Apox for union VP
(there were no sevens VP nominations so let's ignore this bit).

With the sole exception of the candidates themselves, puppets (as that would be voting twice) and me, Elejamie, all NSRB members may vote. Which seems to be just those who took part in the AVBF Sevens and are still active, as both the Rugby League World Cup and Rugby Union World Cup were too long ago to really count.

Neu Engollon
Barunia
Abanhfleft
Northwest Kalactin
Lisander
Alpine Union
Savojarna
Greythrone
United States of Devonta
Alenburg
Blaneu
Kelssek
Retricoal
Tolol
Natanians and Nosts

Votes may be sent to this account. The deadline is roughly a week from now, so Saturday 5th January, 2019 at 00:00 GMT (Friday 4th January, 2019 18:00 CT). If any of my outgoing VPs have any issues here, don't be afraid to edit this post and put any changes in.

[Neu Engollon]

So, I had some thoughts... (Yes, you should be saying 'Oh crap!' after that.)

I hope we're not phasing out 7s VP or Club VP. Not both anyway. But on the other hand, perhaps we need to expand the board, but still only have Union and League in the executive roles, but have a 7s rep (whoever organizes the 7s cycle), Club Union rep (whoever scores and runs the RUCT), Club League rep (whoever scores and runs the IRLCC), and so on...Eventually League 9s, and other code and section reps acting as assistants and having input on the schedule and planning of NS rugby. Basically, rather than phasing them out, downgrading them to a committee level instead of executive level.

It's been a long week and I'm not sure if I'm making sense, but I don't want to see more responsibility falling onto less people if more are willing to pitch in and help. It's some effort, but I feel that a reorganization of NS rugby might be in order.

Anyone else have thoughts on this?

[Elejamie]

So, I had some thoughts... (Yes, you should be saying 'Oh crap!' after that.)

I hope we're not phasing out 7s VP or Club VP. Not both anyway. But on the other hand, perhaps we need to expand the board, but still only have Union and League in the executive roles, but have a 7s rep (whoever organizes the 7s cycle), Club Union rep (whoever scores and runs the RUCT), Club League rep (whoever scores and runs the IRLCC), and so on...Eventually League 9s, and other code and section reps acting as assistants and having input on the schedule and planning of NS rugby. Basically, rather than phasing them out, downgrading them to a committee level instead of executive level.

It's been a long week and I'm not sure if I'm making sense, but I don't want to see more responsibility falling onto less people if more are willing to pitch in and help. It's some effort, but I feel that a reorganization of NS rugby might be in order.

Anyone else have thoughts on this?

First up, I don't really think league nines will be popular enough to warrant its own VP. For a start, despite how reasonably popular the NRL Auckland 9s are, I couldn't find out what positions they have in the code itself so I had to fudge together two teams of five backs, four forwards, four interchanges (the same you'd get in normal XIII-a-side) and two spares for the Olympics. Not to mention that, while there would probably be beach rugby and wheelchair rugby tournaments on NS Sports if there haven't been any already, I honestly don't see them lasting more than one or two tourneys before being completely forgotten. So you can put those fears to rest.

Secondly, I'm kind of in favour of this idea of having league and union as the main people and having sevens and club for both codes on the next level down would probably work best. Primarily because league and especially union are the two main codes but also because a) sevens is technically a variation of union that managed to spin off into its own thing; b) as far as I know, club rugby isn't as popular as the international stuff here on NS; and c) due to the way things are at the moment I am probably going to mess up badly if I somehow become the guy in charge, as in "Homer causes a real meltdown in a simulation of his workplace" levels of messing up badly, so having me a bit lower down would probably be for the best. Either way, we should probably re-organise the NSRB, simply because rugby's really fallen to the wayside here on NS Sports and it just needs some reinvigorating to get going again.

And thirdly, I'm OK with club league and club union getting their own VPs instead of just the one VP for both codes. Especially if a general club VP definitely prefers one code over the other, which could run the risk of favouritism and delays with either the RUCT or IRLCC. Club sevens I still can't imagine happening and, even if it did, I'm not sure how it would be implimented, especially when you consider how quick sevens games are (15-20 minutes per game, including a break for half time, and the tournaments themselves usually last a couple of days) and the massive failure of my Sevens Series idea.

P.S. Unless Lisander or Neu Engollon beat me to it (and I won't have any issues if they do), I'll be announcing the results of the VP election sometime tomorrow. I have no idea when, since it all depends on what time I get up and if I actually hear my alarm go off, but it'll still be something worth keeping an eye out for.

[Darmen]

P.S. Unless Lisander or Neu Engollon beat me to it (and I won't have any issues if they do), I'll be announcing the results of the VP election sometime tomorrow. I have no idea when, since it all depends on what time I get up and if I actually hear my alarm go off, but it'll still be something worth keeping an eye out for.

Any update on the results?

[Elejamie]

P.S. Unless Lisander or Neu Engollon beat me to it (and I won't have any issues if they do), I'll be announcing the results of the VP election sometime tomorrow. I have no idea when, since it all depends on what time I get up and if I actually hear my alarm go off, but it'll still be something worth keeping an eye out for.

Any update on the results?

They're all there but I'd rather have Lisander or Neu Engollon reveal them. Partly because it could be a good way of them handing the reins over and partly because I don't know what to write in the announcement post (yes, really).

[NS Rugby Board Executive Council]

Any update on the results?

They're all there but I'd rather have Lisander or Neu Engollon reveal them. Partly because it could be a good way of them handing the reins over and partly because I don't know what to write in the announcement post (yes, really).

They see me loggin', they callin'. Lisander here, for my final acts.

The nations of Apox and Darmen offered their names as candidates for co-vice-presidency of NSRB. Their names were unanimously approved.

I declare these nations elected as NationStates Rugby Board Vice-Presidents. Apox, as Union VP and Darmen, as League VP. They are already formally designated in the Discord Server, and will receive the authorizations to access this profile via telegram, shortly after I finish this post.

I, Lisander, offer my experience to help you as much as necessary, in an unofficial way and within my time. My telegram box is always open, the same goes for my Discord profile. Feel free to contact.

I close my words to all those who have helped us in this last term. I wish the elect a very successful period and that everything will continue to work out for our rugby.

[Darmen]

First off, thanks to Lisander for posting the results and to everyone who voted as well.

With regards to the organization of the NSRB: I'm absolutely against the board being expanded in any manner. In my opinion, all board members should have clear and concise roles, and I'm not convinced of what a Club VP's or League 9's VP's roles would necessarily be. In addition, no other governing body in NSSports organizes its club tournaments as far as I'm aware, and I'm content to leave the running of the RUCT and IRLCC to their current curators without NSRB involvement. It just seems like adding additional positions, even if they're not executive positions, is adding unnecessary bureaucracy. I'm all for making sure that the wider rugby community is able to give its opinions on various matters, but I don't think that requires handing out official positions to people.

Part of me would like to eliminate the 7's VP after this governance cycle, and just run with the Union and League VP's to help simplify things, but I understand that there might not be a great deal of support for that at this time, so I'm perfectly content to simply take a look at the governing document and make some changes there to help clarify the roles of the VP's. Part of the problem I have with how the governing document is currently set up is that the President of the NSRB is the one who opens the signups, unless they appoint one of the other VP's to do that. As League VP, I had been planning on opening signups tonight myself, but now have to wait for Elejamie to do so or to give me (or Apox even) the go ahead. Perhaps I'm just being impatient, but is been close to 19 months since the last RLWC, and I'd been really hoping to avoid any further delays in getting things going once again. Perhaps giving each of the section VP's the ability to open signups without having to wait for approval from the NSRB President, while still maintaining the expectation that the various section VP's maintain communication over start dates and the like to avoid inter-code competition might be a change we could make? Maybe I'm just overreacting?

Anyways, hopefully my thoughts about NSRB governance make sense to you all, of course feel free to ask any questions to clarify things if needed. I said on Discord that I would also be posting some ideas I had about changes we could make to the Sevens Series, but I'll hold off on posting those until Sunday when I have a few hours to sit down and write out my ideas in full detail.

[Lisander]

I thought a little about it.

Considering the current state of Rugby competitions, I think Darmen is right on his intentions of separating Club Rugby from National Rugby. I regret this decision, now I look from outside. I still believe NSRB can offer support to club events, if asked, for an emergency of something.

When looking to the board, I think probably it should shrink instead of expand. After nineteen months of tenure, I heavily believe duties related to "smaller codes" could be absorbed by the "bigger codes". Rugby Sevens/Tens under Rugby Union and Rugby League Nines under Rugby League. Eventually, the Sevens Series should restart after the RLWC and maybe some Rugby League Nines events could happen if interest is gathered, before the next edition of R(U)WC.

[Neu Engollon]

First off, thanks to Lisander for posting the results and to everyone who voted as well.

With regards to the organization of the NSRB: I'm absolutely against the board being expanded in any manner. In my opinion, all board members should have clear and concise roles, and I'm not convinced of what a Club VP's or League 9's VP's roles would necessarily be. In addition, no other governing body in NSSports organizes its club tournaments as far as I'm aware, and I'm content to leave the running of the RUCT and IRLCC to their current curators without NSRB involvement. It just seems like adding additional positions, even if they're not executive positions, is adding unnecessary bureaucracy. I'm all for making sure that the wider rugby community is able to give its opinions on various matters, but I don't think that requires handing out official positions to people.

I see your point, but there's no extra bureaucracy involved when it comes to the club competitions. De facto, the people that do them are already doing all that they're supposed to do. It took us a while to even get someone to run IRLCC again, or any league competition for that matter. You can be against recognizing them, but my suggestion was in opposition of them just being 'That's the guy who runs the thing'. Sometimes it's nice to give official recognition to someone who's willing to step up.

Part of me would like to eliminate the 7's VP after this governance cycle, and just run with the Union and League VP's to help simplify things, but I understand that there might not be a great deal of support for that at this time, so I'm perfectly content to simply take a look at the governing document and make some changes there to help clarify the roles of the VP's. Part of the problem I have with how the governing document is currently set up is that the President of the NSRB is the one who opens the signups, unless they appoint one of the other VP's to do that. As League VP, I had been planning on opening signups tonight myself, but now have to wait for Elejamie to do so or to give me (or Apox even) the go ahead. Perhaps I'm just being impatient, but is been close to 19 months since the last RLWC, and I'd been really hoping to avoid any further delays in getting things going once again. Perhaps giving each of the section VP's the ability to open signups without having to wait for approval from the NSRB President, while still maintaining the expectation that the various section VP's maintain communication over start dates and the like to avoid inter-code competition might be a change we could make? Maybe I'm just overreacting?

Maybe just a bit? You've been here through most of it, so you know that participation waxes and wanes in rugby. It's not on the steady NS Sport level of some of the other popular sports. Hence, everything slows down when attention is diverted to the WC cycle, Olympics, hockey, cricket, gridiron, etc. or RL. Sign ups take longer to get enough, or at least to an even number we can work with. Plus, as always, people have outside lives. Bringing us to our next point. I've said it before, and I'll say it again. Removing 7s VP just because you don't want too much bureaucracy (and other NS Sports don't have it), is chopping one of the legs out from under you. It removes one of your backups from helping when things get tight in RL for the other VPs. So you should put yourself in that possible position because the other popular sports don't have it?

Seems silly to me when the reasoning to streamline doesn't match up to the practical reality of the job. I know from experience because while in my first stint as a NSRB VP, I had to take over as president after Green Jello dropped out of NS at a difficult time in both our lives. It was extremely tough to be the one solely responsible, learn the job at the same time, manage my RL responsibilities, and do any other projects I wanted to do on NS. (Manage storefronts, run an active region, RP, etc.)

Not that you'll all have the same experience, but why make it harder? Also, the governing document may say that duties fall to certain people, but in practical reality that's not how we ran things. We communicated and whoever had the time to start something or post something did so. Reality dictates it. We would have been waiting much longer for things to happen, making you that much more impatient, due to protracted absences from some NSRB executives.

This might have been a better, more fluid topic on the Discord, but now it's out there for all to see.

Anyways, hopefully my thoughts about NSRB governance make sense to you all, of course feel free to ask any questions to clarify things if needed. I said on Discord that I would also be posting some ideas I had about changes we could make to the Sevens Series, but I'll hold off on posting those until Sunday when I have a few hours to sit down and write out my ideas in full detail.

You mean other than myself and Lisander being the only steady 7s hosts? If it's that 7s series is holding up your WCs, that situation has pretty much resolved itself in our failure to retain a steady stable of 7s tournament hosts.

[Apox]

Firstly, I'd like to thank everyone who voted for accepting me as your NSRB Union VP for this cycle. I hope I'll be able to do a great job!

Part of me would like to eliminate the 7's VP after this governance cycle, and just run with the Union and League VP's to help simplify things, but I understand that there might not be a great deal of support for that at this time, so I'm perfectly content to simply take a look at the governing document and make some changes there to help clarify the roles of the VP's. Part of the problem I have with how the governing document is currently set up is that the President of the NSRB is the one who opens the signups, unless they appoint one of the other VP's to do that. As League VP, I had been planning on opening signups tonight myself, but now have to wait for Elejamie to do so or to give me (or Apox even) the go ahead. Perhaps I'm just being impatient, but is been close to 19 months since the last RLWC, and I'd been really hoping to avoid any further delays in getting things going once again. Perhaps giving each of the section VP's the ability to open signups without having to wait for approval from the NSRB President, while still maintaining the expectation that the various section VP's maintain communication over start dates and the like to avoid inter-code competition might be a change we could make? Maybe I'm just overreacting?

I totally agree with your sentiment, and I think opening sign-ups for the RLWC asap is very important. Happy for you to do this independently, and I think provided that there has been some form of consultation between the NSRB execs, each code VP should be able to open signups unilaterally for their code (and for other code in the case of VPs going AWOL).

Due to the long delays in both the RLWC and RUWC, I think it is important to get both of them done in the near future - I would like to propose getting the RLWC signups up as soon as Darmen is available to do it, and then opening signups for the RUWC very shortly following on from the completion of the RLWC.

I think I will take a look at the current constitution and propose some amendments based on discussions in this thread in which should there be support, they can be voted on along with the RLWC voting.

[NS Rugby Board Executive Council]

Signups for the 18th RLWC are now open!

[Apox]

Host voting for RLWC18 is underway!

[Darmen]

The everything thread has now been posted!