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US Midterm Elections Megathread III: Hitting The Wall

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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Valrifell
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Founded: Aug 18, 2013
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Postby Valrifell » Thu Nov 08, 2018 8:24 pm

Conserative Morality wrote:
Valrifell wrote:
When Republicans do it, it's stopping the evil Socialists from getting control of government. When Democrats do it...

Well, shit, they haven't done it at all!

I love it when we've done what we haven't done.


Schrödinger's Democrat, and all that.
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Tarsonis
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Posts: 9387
Founded: Sep 20, 2017
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Tarsonis » Thu Nov 08, 2018 8:26 pm

Valrifell wrote:
Tarsonis wrote:
Remember kids when the Republicans do it, it’s #obstruxtionism . When the Democrats do it, it’s #resistance.


When Republicans do it, it's stopping the evil Socialists from getting control of government. When Democrats do it...

Well, shit, they haven't done it at all!


The battle cry for this election was “shut down trumps agenda”. So when the democratic house refuses to pass any of Trumps agenda, and constantly floats the idea of impeaching him, how will the Democrats say they’re not doing exactly what the Republicans did?
Proud NS Keyboard Warrior since 2005.
Ecclesiastes 1:18 "For in much wisdom is much vexation, and those who increase knowledge increase sorrow"
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1 Corinthians 5:12 What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside?
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Conserative Morality
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Left-Leaning College State

Postby Conserative Morality » Thu Nov 08, 2018 8:27 pm

Tarsonis wrote:

The battle cry for this election was “shut down trumps agenda”. So when the democratic house refuses to pass any of Trumps agenda, and constantly floats the idea of impeaching him, how will the Democrats say they’re not doing exactly what the Republicans did?

"When"

lol
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Petrasylvania
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 10649
Founded: Oct 20, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby Petrasylvania » Thu Nov 08, 2018 8:27 pm

Tarsonis wrote:
Valrifell wrote:
When Republicans do it, it's stopping the evil Socialists from getting control of government. When Democrats do it...

Well, shit, they haven't done it at all!


The battle cry for this election was “shut down trumps agenda”. So when the democratic house refuses to pass any of Trumps agenda, and constantly floats the idea of impeaching him, how will the Democrats say they’re not doing exactly what the Republicans did?

Whatever works. :^]
Crimes committed by Muslims will be proof of a pan-Islamic plot and Islam's inherent evil. On the other hand, crimes committed by non-Muslims will merely be the acts of mentally ill lone wolves who do not represent their professed belief system at all.
The probability of someone secretly participating in homosexual acts is directly proportional to the frequency and loudness of their publicly professed disapproval and/or disgust for homosexuality.
If Donald Trump accuses an individual of malfeasance without evidence, it is almost a certainty either he or someone associated with him has in fact committed that very same malfeasance to a greater degree.

New Flag Courtesy of The Realist Polities

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Valrifell
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Founded: Aug 18, 2013
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby Valrifell » Thu Nov 08, 2018 8:27 pm

Tarsonis wrote:
Valrifell wrote:
When Republicans do it, it's stopping the evil Socialists from getting control of government. When Democrats do it...

Well, shit, they haven't done it at all!


The battle cry for this election was “shut down trumps agenda”. So when the democratic house refuses to pass any of Trumps agenda, and constantly floats the idea of impeaching him, how will the Democrats say they’re not doing exactly what the Republicans did?


Bah, the electorate doesn't care about hypocrisy anymore. Reps pioneered that trick.
I like to imagine Sisyphus happy
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Len Hyet
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Founded: Jun 25, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Len Hyet » Thu Nov 08, 2018 8:27 pm

Conserative Morality wrote:
Tarsonis wrote:

The battle cry for this election was “shut down trumps agenda”. So when the democratic house refuses to pass any of Trumps agenda, and constantly floats the idea of impeaching him, how will the Democrats say they’re not doing exactly what the Republicans did?

"When"

lol

Honest question, do you see the Dems not doing that?
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Tarsonis
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Posts: 9387
Founded: Sep 20, 2017
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Tarsonis » Thu Nov 08, 2018 8:28 pm

Conserative Morality wrote:
Tarsonis wrote:

The battle cry for this election was “shut down trumps agenda”. So when the democratic house refuses to pass any of Trumps agenda, and constantly floats the idea of impeaching him, how will the Democrats say they’re not doing exactly what the Republicans did?

"When"

lol


You saying the Democrats won’t deliver on their campaign promise to “stop Trump?”
Proud NS Keyboard Warrior since 2005.
Ecclesiastes 1:18 "For in much wisdom is much vexation, and those who increase knowledge increase sorrow"
Galatians 6:7 " Do not be deceived; God is not mocked, for you reap whatever you sow."
1 Corinthians 5:12 What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside?
T. Stevens: "I don't hold with equality in all things, but I believe in equality under the Law."
James I of Aragon "Have you ever considered that our position is Idolatry to the Rabbi?"
Debating Christian Theology with Non-Christians pretty much anybody be like

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Tarsonis
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Posts: 9387
Founded: Sep 20, 2017
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Tarsonis » Thu Nov 08, 2018 8:29 pm

Petrasylvania wrote:
Tarsonis wrote:
The battle cry for this election was “shut down trumps agenda”. So when the democratic house refuses to pass any of Trumps agenda, and constantly floats the idea of impeaching him, how will the Democrats say they’re not doing exactly what the Republicans did?

Whatever works. :^]


So yup, my points still stands.

Remember kids Republicans obstruct Democrats Resist
Proud NS Keyboard Warrior since 2005.
Ecclesiastes 1:18 "For in much wisdom is much vexation, and those who increase knowledge increase sorrow"
Galatians 6:7 " Do not be deceived; God is not mocked, for you reap whatever you sow."
1 Corinthians 5:12 What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside?
T. Stevens: "I don't hold with equality in all things, but I believe in equality under the Law."
James I of Aragon "Have you ever considered that our position is Idolatry to the Rabbi?"
Debating Christian Theology with Non-Christians pretty much anybody be like

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Valrifell
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Posts: 21996
Founded: Aug 18, 2013
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby Valrifell » Thu Nov 08, 2018 8:30 pm

Tarsonis wrote:
Petrasylvania wrote:Whatever works. :^]


So yup, my points still stands.

Remember kids Republicans obstruct Democrats Resist


Democrats have been being accused of obstruction before they even had control of any house of Congress.

Boy who cried wolf, and all that.
I like to imagine Sisyphus happy
I did some things

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Petrasylvania
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Posts: 10649
Founded: Oct 20, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby Petrasylvania » Thu Nov 08, 2018 8:31 pm

Valrifell wrote:
Tarsonis wrote:
So yup, my points still stands.

Remember kids Republicans obstruct Democrats Resist


Democrats have been being accused of obstruction before they even had control of any house of Congress.

Boy who cried wolf, and all that.

And then the wolf finally shows up.
Crimes committed by Muslims will be proof of a pan-Islamic plot and Islam's inherent evil. On the other hand, crimes committed by non-Muslims will merely be the acts of mentally ill lone wolves who do not represent their professed belief system at all.
The probability of someone secretly participating in homosexual acts is directly proportional to the frequency and loudness of their publicly professed disapproval and/or disgust for homosexuality.
If Donald Trump accuses an individual of malfeasance without evidence, it is almost a certainty either he or someone associated with him has in fact committed that very same malfeasance to a greater degree.

New Flag Courtesy of The Realist Polities

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Tarsonis
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 9387
Founded: Sep 20, 2017
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Tarsonis » Thu Nov 08, 2018 8:31 pm

Valrifell wrote:
Tarsonis wrote:
So yup, my points still stands.

Remember kids Republicans obstruct Democrats Resist


Democrats have been being accused of obstruction before they even had control of any house of Congress.

Boy who cried wolf, and all that.


Well that’s a fair point. When they actually get power to obstruct we might all be numb to the narratives. Just like what happened with the Republicans in 2014
Proud NS Keyboard Warrior since 2005.
Ecclesiastes 1:18 "For in much wisdom is much vexation, and those who increase knowledge increase sorrow"
Galatians 6:7 " Do not be deceived; God is not mocked, for you reap whatever you sow."
1 Corinthians 5:12 What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside?
T. Stevens: "I don't hold with equality in all things, but I believe in equality under the Law."
James I of Aragon "Have you ever considered that our position is Idolatry to the Rabbi?"
Debating Christian Theology with Non-Christians pretty much anybody be like

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Valrifell
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 21996
Founded: Aug 18, 2013
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby Valrifell » Thu Nov 08, 2018 8:31 pm

Petrasylvania wrote:
Valrifell wrote:
Democrats have been being accused of obstruction before they even had control of any house of Congress.

Boy who cried wolf, and all that.

And then the wolf finally shows up.


That's usually how the story ends, yes.
I like to imagine Sisyphus happy
I did some things

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Dahon
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5892
Founded: Nov 11, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby Dahon » Thu Nov 08, 2018 8:38 pm

Tarsonis wrote:
Valrifell wrote:
When Republicans do it, it's stopping the evil Socialists from getting control of government. When Democrats do it...

Well, shit, they haven't done it at all!


The battle cry for this election was “shut down trumps agenda”. So when the democratic house refuses to pass any of Trumps agenda, and constantly floats the idea of impeaching him, how will the Democrats say they’re not doing exactly what the Republicans did?


If Trump were a reasonable man, if his cabinet weren't a vile collection of zealots and opportunists, working together with that White House would be feasible beyond military matters. But as it is? Fuck the dick.
Authoritarianism kills all. Never forget that.

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Tarsonis
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 9387
Founded: Sep 20, 2017
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Tarsonis » Thu Nov 08, 2018 8:40 pm

Dahon wrote:
Tarsonis wrote:
The battle cry for this election was “shut down trumps agenda”. So when the democratic house refuses to pass any of Trumps agenda, and constantly floats the idea of impeaching him, how will the Democrats say they’re not doing exactly what the Republicans did?


If Trump were a reasonable man, if his cabinet weren't a vile collection of zealots and opportunists, working together with that White House would be feasible beyond military matters. But as it is? Fuck the dick.


Remember kids obstructionism is only wrong when your political opponents do it. When you do it it’s justified.
Proud NS Keyboard Warrior since 2005.
Ecclesiastes 1:18 "For in much wisdom is much vexation, and those who increase knowledge increase sorrow"
Galatians 6:7 " Do not be deceived; God is not mocked, for you reap whatever you sow."
1 Corinthians 5:12 What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside?
T. Stevens: "I don't hold with equality in all things, but I believe in equality under the Law."
James I of Aragon "Have you ever considered that our position is Idolatry to the Rabbi?"
Debating Christian Theology with Non-Christians pretty much anybody be like

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Conserative Morality
Post Kaiser
 
Posts: 76675
Founded: Aug 24, 2007
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Conserative Morality » Thu Nov 08, 2018 8:40 pm

Len Hyet wrote:
Conserative Morality wrote:"When"

lol

Honest question, do you see the Dems not doing that?

I see it as a strong possibility. Through incompetence, spinelessness, and the idea that compromise will make them look good (without learning that it never does).
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Conserative Morality
Post Kaiser
 
Posts: 76675
Founded: Aug 24, 2007
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Conserative Morality » Thu Nov 08, 2018 8:41 pm

Tarsonis wrote:
Dahon wrote:
If Trump were a reasonable man, if his cabinet weren't a vile collection of zealots and opportunists, working together with that White House would be feasible beyond military matters. But as it is? Fuck the dick.


Remember kids obstructionism is only wrong when your political opponents do it. When you do it it’s justified.

The irony is incredible.
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Pasong Tirad
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 9222
Founded: May 31, 2007
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Pasong Tirad » Thu Nov 08, 2018 8:43 pm

Conserative Morality wrote:
Len Hyet wrote:Honest question, do you see the Dems not doing that?

I see it as a strong possibility. Through incompetence, spinelessness, and the idea that compromise will make them look good (without learning that it never does).

B-but but, my bipartisan marketplace of ideas!

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Petrasylvania
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 10649
Founded: Oct 20, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby Petrasylvania » Thu Nov 08, 2018 8:44 pm

Tarsonis wrote:
Dahon wrote:
If Trump were a reasonable man, if his cabinet weren't a vile collection of zealots and opportunists, working together with that White House would be feasible beyond military matters. But as it is? Fuck the dick.


Remember kids obstructionism is only wrong when your political opponents do it. When you do it it’s justified.

And obstructionism won the Republicans all three branches.

Soo why shouldn't the Democrats do it, hmm?
Crimes committed by Muslims will be proof of a pan-Islamic plot and Islam's inherent evil. On the other hand, crimes committed by non-Muslims will merely be the acts of mentally ill lone wolves who do not represent their professed belief system at all.
The probability of someone secretly participating in homosexual acts is directly proportional to the frequency and loudness of their publicly professed disapproval and/or disgust for homosexuality.
If Donald Trump accuses an individual of malfeasance without evidence, it is almost a certainty either he or someone associated with him has in fact committed that very same malfeasance to a greater degree.

New Flag Courtesy of The Realist Polities

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Dahon
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5892
Founded: Nov 11, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby Dahon » Thu Nov 08, 2018 8:47 pm

Tarsonis wrote:
Dahon wrote:
If Trump were a reasonable man, if his cabinet weren't a vile collection of zealots and opportunists, working together with that White House would be feasible beyond military matters. But as it is? Fuck the dick.


Remember kids obstructionism is only wrong when your political opponents do it. When you do it it’s justified.


Can Trump vouch for congressional policies that have had Democratic input? Yes or no?

Take out the context and the Democrats doing it with Trump would seem as unreasonable as when the Republicans did it with Obama, but then you need context for both.
Authoritarianism kills all. Never forget that.

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Nouveau Yathrib
Diplomat
 
Posts: 825
Founded: Jul 27, 2016
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Nouveau Yathrib » Thu Nov 08, 2018 9:08 pm

CNN 2018 election exit polls

They added breakdowns by parenthood/gender of children. Surprised that all-boy parents voted more Democratic than all-girl and mixed gender.

Are you a parent?
Yes (30%) 54% D 44% R 2% NA
No (70%) 55% D 43% R 2% NA
18778 Respondents

Children under 18
Only boys (11%) 59% D 39% R 2% NA
Only girls (8%) 54% D 45% R 1% NA
Both boys and girls (11%) 50% D 48% R 2% NA
No children under 18 (70%) 55% D 43% R 2% NA
18778 Respondents



The breakdown for race relations was VERY interesting.
In the U.S. today:
Whites are favored (41%) 87% D 11% R 2% NA
Minorities are favored (19%) 12% D 85% R 3% NA
No group is favored (33%) 29% D 69% R 2% NA
18778 Respondents
Last edited by Nouveau Yathrib on Thu Nov 08, 2018 9:12 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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NERVUN
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Right-wing Utopia

Postby NERVUN » Thu Nov 08, 2018 9:44 pm

Tarsonis wrote:Yeah I don’t actually give a shit about racial demographics. Shove your race baiting up your ass

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United Muscovite Nations
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Posts: 20772
Founded: Feb 01, 2017
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby United Muscovite Nations » Thu Nov 08, 2018 9:59 pm

Conserative Morality wrote:
Hakons wrote:If only there was another chamber of the legislature that was based on population. That would certainly be a good addition to our republic.

Image


Democracy or land, take your pick.

As a self-proclaimed Americanist, you surely know that the US was never meant to be a democracy. That is historical revisionism.
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Even the apologists of industrialism have been obliged to admit that some economic evils follow in the wake of the machines. These are such as overproduction, unemployment, and a growing inequality in the distribution of wealth. But the remedies proposed by the apologists are always homeopathic. They expect the evils to disappear when we have bigger and better machines, and more of them. Their remedial programs, therefore, look forward to more industrialism.
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United Muscovite Nations
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Posts: 20772
Founded: Feb 01, 2017
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby United Muscovite Nations » Thu Nov 08, 2018 10:01 pm

Dahon wrote:
Tarsonis wrote:
The battle cry for this election was “shut down trumps agenda”. So when the democratic house refuses to pass any of Trumps agenda, and constantly floats the idea of impeaching him, how will the Democrats say they’re not doing exactly what the Republicans did?


If Trump were a reasonable man, if his cabinet weren't a vile collection of zealots and opportunists, working together with that White House would be feasible beyond military matters. But as it is? Fuck the dick.

I find it odd you say you could work on them with military matters, but nothing else, as if military matters aren't the area where a President has the most ability to infringe on human rights.
Formerly United Marxist Nations, Dec 02, 2011- Feb 01, 2017. +33,837 posts Eastern Orthodox Christian. Christian Anarchist and Monarchist. Supporter of Pan-Arabism. 22-year old Doomer
Even the apologists of industrialism have been obliged to admit that some economic evils follow in the wake of the machines. These are such as overproduction, unemployment, and a growing inequality in the distribution of wealth. But the remedies proposed by the apologists are always homeopathic. They expect the evils to disappear when we have bigger and better machines, and more of them. Their remedial programs, therefore, look forward to more industrialism.
Pro and Anti: https://www.nationstates.net/nation=uni ... id=1166847

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Petrasylvania
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 10649
Founded: Oct 20, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby Petrasylvania » Thu Nov 08, 2018 10:07 pm

United Muscovite Nations wrote:
Dahon wrote:
If Trump were a reasonable man, if his cabinet weren't a vile collection of zealots and opportunists, working together with that White House would be feasible beyond military matters. But as it is? Fuck the dick.

I find it odd you say you could work on them with military matters, but nothing else, as if military matters aren't the area where a President has the most ability to infringe on human rights.

Work with Trump on everything but military matters if he was reasonable.
Crimes committed by Muslims will be proof of a pan-Islamic plot and Islam's inherent evil. On the other hand, crimes committed by non-Muslims will merely be the acts of mentally ill lone wolves who do not represent their professed belief system at all.
The probability of someone secretly participating in homosexual acts is directly proportional to the frequency and loudness of their publicly professed disapproval and/or disgust for homosexuality.
If Donald Trump accuses an individual of malfeasance without evidence, it is almost a certainty either he or someone associated with him has in fact committed that very same malfeasance to a greater degree.

New Flag Courtesy of The Realist Polities

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Telconi
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 28120
Founded: Oct 08, 2016
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Telconi » Thu Nov 08, 2018 10:51 pm

Senkaku wrote:
Shrillland wrote:
Why tricameral? What would the third house's use be?

Y'all want to keep the Senate, CM wants a more proportional thing, so why not compromise and do both

Shrillland wrote:
Say rather five states instead of two. When we say cities would rule, it's kind of a misnomer, we mean urban areas as a whole. There's a difference between the 12 million that make up NY and LA and the 50 million that make up their metro areas as a whole, but it's the latter that we actually see as a problem.

I mean, for starters those 50 million are less politically homogeneous than you give them credit for (@Staten Island and Orange County, for example), and secondly- if a majority or large plurality of the American people are concentrated in the metro areas/combined statistical regions surrounding several major cities, what the fuck is wrong with giving them adequate representation?

The real issue here is that some people happen not to agree with the party that tends to do well in many large regions of those metropolitan areas, so they paint giving them adequate representation as giving them undue power.

Soldati Senza Confini wrote:
I mean, if you don't want to define it just because my question seems confrontational is fine, but you are the one who is allowing a bad interpretation of it by not clarifying when someone asks you to.

I think CM already identified single-member districts in speaking of election directly by the voting population, though I could be mistaken, and STV rather than FPTP like the Rajya Sabha is a big change, so characterizing there as being "exactly no difference" is quite silly, and being belligerent about your error is even sillier


You're not from Connecticut by any chance are you?
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