by Rasorate » Thu Oct 11, 2018 4:48 am
by Dahon » Thu Oct 11, 2018 4:58 am
by Western Vale Confederacy » Thu Oct 11, 2018 5:19 am
by Second Empire of America » Thu Oct 11, 2018 9:40 am
by San Carlos Islands » Thu Oct 11, 2018 9:44 am
by Unstoppable Empire of Doom » Thu Oct 11, 2018 9:58 am
San Carlos Islands wrote:If we didn't have nationalism and the nation-state wasn't created, we wouldn't be here. How would you expect humanity to go from being some hunters to founding the basis of civilization like Babylon?
by The Great-German Empire » Thu Oct 11, 2018 10:02 am
Vossische Zeitung: The Chancellor, Baron Hartmann, announced in a rally that he will 'work tirelessly against the formation of a society of control' | Hungary edges out Germany 4-3 in Euro Cup final; Kaiser personally congratulates Hungarians for an 'exceptional' game | According to survey, 73% of Germans oppose an introduction of speed limits on major Autobahns
by Heloin » Thu Oct 11, 2018 10:18 am
San Carlos Islands wrote:If we didn't have nationalism and the nation-state wasn't created, we wouldn't be here. How would you expect humanity to go from being some hunters to founding the basis of civilization like Babylon?
by Greater Germany » Thu Oct 11, 2018 10:20 am
by Dooom35796821595 » Thu Oct 11, 2018 10:30 am
Second Empire of America wrote:I have said many times that I despise nationalism and nation-states. Nationalism is a disease that turn governments and cultures against one another, when they could achieve so much more by working together. Even fostering a national consciousness is dangerous, for it will inevitably lead to an opportunity for more dangerous forms of nationalism to take hold.
I consider the EU and international organizations like it to be the future of society, and it has every right to discipline Hungary. Ideally, it would send troops in to force Hungary into compliance. Ufortunately, the EU doesn't have a federal army yet.
by Dark Socialism » Thu Oct 11, 2018 10:34 am
Second Empire of America wrote:I have said many times that I despise nationalism and nation-states. Nationalism is a disease that turn governments and cultures against one another, when they could achieve so much more by working together. Even fostering a national consciousness is dangerous, for it will inevitably lead to an opportunity for more dangerous forms of nationalism to take hold.
I consider the EU and international organizations like it to be the future of society, and it has every right to discipline Hungary. Ideally, it would send troops in to force Hungary into compliance. Ufortunately, the EU doesn't have a federal army yet.
by Risottia » Thu Oct 11, 2018 10:40 am
Western Vale Confederacy wrote:Nationalism and the concept of the nation state can be both good and bad depending on how it is presented and adopted.
by Pinch Me » Thu Oct 11, 2018 1:23 pm
by Kaggeceria » Thu Oct 11, 2018 1:30 pm
by Distruzio » Thu Oct 11, 2018 1:45 pm
by Internationalist Bastard » Thu Oct 11, 2018 1:54 pm
by Internationalist Bastard » Thu Oct 11, 2018 1:57 pm
Kaggeceria wrote:No.
The nation-state has proven itself to be the best formula humanity has for peacefully coexisting. Ideas of a one world government have not proven themselves in the slightest to be workable alternatives.
There is nothing wrong with wanting to preserve one's country.
by Kaggeceria » Thu Oct 11, 2018 2:00 pm
Internationalist Bastard wrote:Kaggeceria wrote:No.
The nation-state has proven itself to be the best formula humanity has for peacefully coexisting. Ideas of a one world government have not proven themselves in the slightest to be workable alternatives.
There is nothing wrong with wanting to preserve one's country.
You say that the nation state allows people to coexist peacefully when some of our bloodiest wars were between nation states
The only thing keeping ww3 from flaring up is MAD, not some vaque concept of national sovereignty that no nation truly follows
by Kaggeceria » Thu Oct 11, 2018 2:01 pm
Internationalist Bastard wrote:It’s important to establish the difference between patriotism and nationalism. Patriotism, loving ones country, is fine. Many people find pride in their home states, provinces, towns. The problem is that nationalism is more of a, my country is better then yours. One could have a jolly argument about Chicago vs New York, at the end of the day it’s just an argument about which city they prefer. If people came to blows over the matter, it’s absurd.
At the end of the day we are the same people, and there is no need let the difference if ethnicity and culture interfere with our desire to help others. If we can stop for a moment thinking of the country next door or on the other side of the world as the other tribe, and is all as one single tribe, we’d ultimately get more done
by Arcturus Novus » Thu Oct 11, 2018 2:03 pm
Nilokeras wrote:there is of course an interesting thread to pull on [...]
Unfortunately we're all forced to participate in whatever baroque humiliation kink the OP has going on instead.
by Internationalist Bastard » Thu Oct 11, 2018 2:07 pm
Kaggeceria wrote:Internationalist Bastard wrote:You say that the nation state allows people to coexist peacefully when some of our bloodiest wars were between nation states
The only thing keeping ww3 from flaring up is MAD, not some vaque concept of national sovereignty that no nation truly follows
Why do you think Europe has the map it does now? Why do you think Yugoslavia and Austria-Hungary no longer exist? They split apart into smaller countries because having them all united under one banner didn't fucking work. Now, for the most part, the Balkans are relatively peaceful. And none of them have nukes.
Yes, wars often do flare up. But for the most part, having people exercise sovereignty over themselves has allowed for peace.
by Internationalist Bastard » Thu Oct 11, 2018 2:09 pm
Kaggeceria wrote:Internationalist Bastard wrote:It’s important to establish the difference between patriotism and nationalism. Patriotism, loving ones country, is fine. Many people find pride in their home states, provinces, towns. The problem is that nationalism is more of a, my country is better then yours. One could have a jolly argument about Chicago vs New York, at the end of the day it’s just an argument about which city they prefer. If people came to blows over the matter, it’s absurd.
At the end of the day we are the same people, and there is no need let the difference if ethnicity and culture interfere with our desire to help others. If we can stop for a moment thinking of the country next door or on the other side of the world as the other tribe, and is all as one single tribe, we’d ultimately get more done
Some countries are better than others. That's just the way it is. I wouldn't say Somalia is equal to Norway.
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