[DEFEATED/DISCARDED] Lib. Federation Of Conservative Nations

[Caracasus]

Its times like these that solidify the fact that the WASC has degenerated into nest of rodents - using the power invested in them to censor ideology they disapprove of through their 'offensive' liberations. Its sad to see how they garner what little support they have by slapping on buzzwords like fascist/ homophobic/ racist etc onto proposals in an attempt to drive up peoples emotions. The WASC has more or less become a means to promote the interests of regions.

So I take it you think calling for gay people to be gassed or posting images of lynchings isn't racist or homophobic and we are just using buzzwords then?

[LiberNovusAmericae]

I've seen the evidence and while only a few of the disgusting posts I seen came from Gagium, it does appear that he joined in to some degree. While most of the grotesque posts came from others, he shouldn't have joined in. Now, I'm now going to join their discord server to see how much of this is still going on.

The FCN was founded as a moderate conservative region, and was since hijacked. I genuinely want to see what their Discord is like, since I left during the worse parts. I'm told it's calmed down significantly.

Well the general section of the channel, as depicted in the pictures no longer exists. There are still 47 posts with the n-word on it, the most recent one being about four months ago. Two of the people who said the word still hold office. One being the new founder, and the other some kind of chairman. Despite this usage the n-word appears to be a disgusting phase that died off.

Edit: I did find some stuff about gassing gays still on the discord, but it appears they were joking about photoshoping the phrase onto Donald Trump's tweets.

[Lamoni]

]
Let’s see here..we have TCB’s foreign affairs minister throwing around such terms such as white culture and white language, as well as still making the claims that our region is “toxic” (That term again?) in an apparent attempt to provoke a reaction. I don’t necessarily agree with all of Lalop’s points, though this is no way to respond. Then, you have your ending argument that our region accepts this behavior, which, in nearly ALL of our posts, we said we don’t! Could you at least pretend to have read or cared about any of the content in our posts?

I don’t know what I expected from someone in your position.

Yes, yes, yes I’ve seen these sad excuses and efforts to condemn the behavior that’s come to light. Doesn’t excuse the fact that the evidence I’ve seen points to the contrary. You say that you disagree, but actions speak louder, and form what actions I’ve witnessed I fail to see any meaning behind your words. You say your region does not accept this, when it is you yourself and members of your government who were caught saying these things. Even if you say “oh I didn’t mean it” or “oh I condemn that behavior now’ you yourself and your friends in here said those words, and you cannot unsay something.

As for my attempt to “provoke a reaction.” My good man, the truth often hurts and can be scathing. No sense is attempting to blanket it with euphemisms. You are not the victim, so stop using that subterfuge. It’s a poor attempt at it at best.

Now I have more pertinent matters than arguing with sad and disgruntled persons. Ciao!

Calling your fellow posters "sad and disgruntled," is no bueno. Knock it off.

[The Nexus Union]

Its times like these that solidify the fact that the WASC has degenerated into nest of rodents - using the power invested in them to censor ideology they disapprove of through their 'offensive' liberations. Its sad to see how they garner what little support they have by slapping on buzzwords like fascist/ homophobic/ racist etc onto proposals in an attempt to drive up peoples emotions. The WASC has more or less become a means to promote the interests of regions.

So I take it you think calling for gay people to be gassed or posting images of lynchings isn't racist or homophobic and we are just using buzzwords then?

Regardless of your phoney moral posturing, this proposal still achieves the same effect of being a lazy political stunt intended to censor opposing ideology. And the best part is, people aren't stupid enough to fall for it - thats why its being voted into the ground.

Im not the only one sick and tired of the WASC being used as a tool to effectuate this garbage. Its an old gimmick that even our region had to put up with.

[Caracasus]

So I take it you think calling for gay people to be gassed or posting images of lynchings isn't racist or homophobic and we are just using buzzwords then?

Regardless of your phoney moral posturing, this proposal still achieves the same effect of being a lazy political stunt intended to censor opposing ideology. And the best part is, people aren't stupid enough to fall for it - thats why its being voted into the ground.

Im not the only one sick and tired of the WASC being used as a tool to effectuate this garbage. Its an old gimmick that even our region had to put up with.

Ignoring your bizarre personal attack, there are tonnes of centre-right and right wing regions out there that I've no problem with whatsoever and would strongly oppose a liberation being launched against them.

This one has a discord full of stuff worse than KR and NE. There's a difference here. I know some people feel it can be reformed, and whatever way this vote goes I really hope that happens. I'm not holding my breath however.

[United Massachusetts]

I should note that New Wald has told me that he's taking tighter charge in making reforms. This is certainly a wake-up, and I think it getting to vote might be enough motivation for FCN to make changes. As said above, the FCN was hijacked by alt-right, hateful forces. I think many of them engaged in strong social pressure on younger members of the region, of whom (perhaps, maybe no) Gagium is one.

It took way too long for the FCN to take action against them, yes. But I know New Waldensia. He is a friend of mine, and of upright character. We should give him and other senior FCN officials a chance. From the inside of this whole picture, it looks like this getting to vote has been enough of a wake-up call for them. I say we review the issue after having given the FCN a shot at reform, which will be significantly easier with the biggest abusers gone.

[The Nexus Union]

Regardless of your phoney moral posturing, this proposal still achieves the same effect of being a lazy political stunt intended to censor opposing ideology. And the best part is, people aren't stupid enough to fall for it - thats why its being voted into the ground.

Im not the only one sick and tired of the WASC being used as a tool to effectuate this garbage. Its an old gimmick that even our region had to put up with.

Ignoring your bizarre personal attack, there are tonnes of centre-right and right wing regions out there that I've no problem with whatsoever and would strongly oppose a liberation being launched against them.

This one has a discord full of stuff worse than KR and NE. There's a difference here. I know some people feel it can be reformed, and whatever way this vote goes I really hope that happens. I'm not holding my breath however.

You don't see a-lot of condemnations/ liberations of left wing regions do you. Proposals like this that are infesting the WASC come riding in on their own wave of self righteousness and supposed intention to root out racism/ homophobia and the likes.

These sort of stunts are becoming so increasingly lazy, they literally mention fascist ideology in the proposal itself and act completely intolerant towards it. Im not saying I support fascism, but isn't it stupidly ironic when they go on to say they're "Abhorred by their attempts to eliminate ideologies they disagree with".

[Thuzbekistan]

I should note that New Wald has told me that he's taking tighter charge in making reforms. This is certainly a wake-up, and I think it getting to vote might be enough motivation for FCN to make changes. As said above, the FCN was hijacked by alt-right, hateful forces. I think many of them engaged in strong social pressure on younger members of the region, of whom (perhaps, maybe no) Gagium is one.

It took way too long for the FCN to take action against them, yes. But I know New Waldensia. He is a friend of mine, and of upright character. We should give him and other senior FCN officials a chance. From the inside of this whole picture, it looks like this getting to vote has been enough of a wake-up call for them. I say we review the issue after having given the FCN a shot at reform, which will be significantly easier with the biggest abusers gone.

Or you guys stop the moral policing and simply leave regions alone.

[United Massachusetts]

I should note that New Wald has told me that he's taking tighter charge in making reforms. This is certainly a wake-up, and I think it getting to vote might be enough motivation for FCN to make changes. As said above, the FCN was hijacked by alt-right, hateful forces. I think many of them engaged in strong social pressure on younger members of the region, of whom (perhaps, maybe no) Gagium is one.

It took way too long for the FCN to take action against them, yes. But I know New Waldensia. He is a friend of mine, and of upright character. We should give him and other senior FCN officials a chance. From the inside of this whole picture, it looks like this getting to vote has been enough of a wake-up call for them. I say we review the issue after having given the FCN a shot at reform, which will be significantly easier with the biggest abusers gone.

Or you guys stop the moral policing and simply leave regions alone.

Sir, I work full-time for the moral police. Badge number 37845, at that.

[Definitely Not A Front For The Imperium]

I fail to see how severe punishment of people with "bad opinions" (that are making progress in reforming and changing their ways) with a needless liberation, which "hopefully" spurs on a hostile invasion which will destroy the region, further galvanizing all opposed to the heavy-handedness of the WA, and forcing them into regions that are actually authoritarian, will help, as the motto of the damn SC says, "Spread International Peace And Goodwill."

Whilst I may be against such archaic and barbaric beliefs as racism and religious discrimination, I do not believe that an entire region needs to be destabilized for the actions of a few members of the region. Is the elimination of all who disagree with the beliefs of your various governmental systems via force the way to convince people that the WA is little more than a group of bullies going around trying to destroy regions with the wrong opinions? Is attacking any region that is really quite free and peaceful, due to members (most of which have been removed) who do espouse these barbaric beliefs of racial or religious supremacy, the new path of the SC?

If saying racist, homophobic, or anti-Semitic things is fascism, then maybe you are losing sight of what you are actually supposed to be attempting to protect the world from, not offensive comments with no real action, but authoritarians and totalitarians and everything in between. This "Most August Body" is a disgrace. Against.

[Greater vakolicci haven]

I should note that New Wald has told me that he's taking tighter charge in making reforms. This is certainly a wake-up, and I think it getting to vote might be enough motivation for FCN to make changes. As said above, the FCN was hijacked by alt-right, hateful forces. I think many of them engaged in strong social pressure on younger members of the region, of whom (perhaps, maybe no) Gagium is one.

It took way too long for the FCN to take action against them, yes. But I know New Waldensia. He is a friend of mine, and of upright character. We should give him and other senior FCN officials a chance. From the inside of this whole picture, it looks like this getting to vote has been enough of a wake-up call for them. I say we review the issue after having given the FCN a shot at reform, which will be significantly easier with the biggest abusers gone.

Or you guys stop the moral policing and simply leave regions alone.

I've given up hope of that ever happening.

[Thuzbekistan]

Or you guys stop the moral policing and simply leave regions alone.

I've given up hope of that ever happening.

It really is pathetic.

[Greater vakolicci haven]

I fail to see how severe punishment of people with "bad opinions" (that are making progress in reforming and changing their ways) with a needless liberation, which "hopefully" spurs on a hostile invasion which will destroy the region, further galvanizing all opposed to the heavy-handedness of the WA, and forcing them into regions that are actually authoritarian, will help, as the motto of the damn SC says, "Spread International Peace And Goodwill."

Whilst I may be against such archaic and barbaric beliefs as racism and religious discrimination, I do not believe that an entire region needs to be destabilized for the actions of a few members of the region. Is the elimination of all who disagree with the beliefs of your various governmental systems via force the way to convince people that the WA is little more than a group of bullies going around trying to destroy regions with the wrong opinions? Is attacking any region that is really quite free and peaceful, due to members (most of which have been removed) who do espouse these barbaric beliefs of racial or religious supremacy, the new path of the SC?

If saying racist, homophobic, or anti-Semitic things is fascism, then maybe you are losing sight of what you are actually supposed to be attempting to protect the world from, not offensive comments with no real action, but authoritarians and totalitarians and everything in between. This "Most August Body" is a disgrace. Against.

I agree, but I go further.

Whatever people have said on discord isn't a reason to make their invasion easier. I don't work with fascists, or racists or whatever else you might want to say. The region which has given me the honour of leading it likewise does not. That is the best course of action: I believe that you have a right to say what you want on your region's private discord server. I, likewise, have a right to ignore your existance.

[Saranidia]

I fail to see how severe punishment of people with "bad opinions" (that are making progress in reforming and changing their ways) with a needless liberation, which "hopefully" spurs on a hostile invasion which will destroy the region, further galvanizing all opposed to the heavy-handedness of the WA, and forcing them into regions that are actually authoritarian, will help, as the motto of the damn SC says, "Spread International Peace And Goodwill."

Whilst I may be against such archaic and barbaric beliefs as racism and religious discrimination, I do not believe that an entire region needs to be destabilized for the actions of a few members of the region. Is the elimination of all who disagree with the beliefs of your various governmental systems via force the way to convince people that the WA is little more than a group of bullies going around trying to destroy regions with the wrong opinions? Is attacking any region that is really quite free and peaceful, due to members (most of which have been removed) who do espouse these barbaric beliefs of racial or religious supremacy, the new path of the SC?

If saying racist, homophobic, or anti-Semitic things is fascism, then maybe you are losing sight of what you are actually supposed to be attempting to protect the world from, not offensive comments with no real action, but authoritarians and totalitarians and everything in between. This "Most August Body" is a disgrace. Against.

Brotherly Leader Dawud Khan stares at their delegate.

“They are imperialist themselves! Did you not here their racism involves promoting violence?! Did you not hear of their aggression against other regions? We support condemnation as ourselves people vulnerable to imperialism both of the crusader model. the ‘rights’ of racist to act in a racist way don’t count for more than the rights of victims. If you want to defend sovereignity look at the western bias of world assembly law.”

[Definitely Not A Front For The Imperium]

I fail to see how severe punishment of people with "bad opinions" (that are making progress in reforming and changing their ways) with a needless liberation, which "hopefully" spurs on a hostile invasion which will destroy the region, further galvanizing all opposed to the heavy-handedness of the WA, and forcing them into regions that are actually authoritarian, will help, as the motto of the damn SC says, "Spread International Peace And Goodwill."

Whilst I may be against such archaic and barbaric beliefs as racism and religious discrimination, I do not believe that an entire region needs to be destabilized for the actions of a few members of the region. Is the elimination of all who disagree with the beliefs of your various governmental systems via force the way to convince people that the WA is little more than a group of bullies going around trying to destroy regions with the wrong opinions? Is attacking any region that is really quite free and peaceful, due to members (most of which have been removed) who do espouse these barbaric beliefs of racial or religious supremacy, the new path of the SC?

If saying racist, homophobic, or anti-Semitic things is fascism, then maybe you are losing sight of what you are actually supposed to be attempting to protect the world from, not offensive comments with no real action, but authoritarians and totalitarians and everything in between. This "Most August Body" is a disgrace. Against.

I agree, but I go further.

Whatever people have said on discord isn't a reason to make their invasion easier. I don't work with fascists, or racists or whatever else you might want to say. The region which has given me the honour of leading it likewise does not. That is the best course of action: I believe that you have a right to say what you want on your region's private discord server. I, likewise, have a right to ignore your existance.

it is nice to have someone who speaks reason for once.

[Saranidia]

I agree, but I go further.

Whatever people have said on discord isn't a reason to make their invasion easier. I don't work with fascists, or racists or whatever else you might want to say. The region which has given me the honour of leading it likewise does not. That is the best course of action: I believe that you have a right to say what you want on your region's private discord server. I, likewise, have a right to ignore your existance.

it is nice to have someone who speaks reason for once.

You failed to respond to my query about prioritising the rights of racists over those of members of certain ethnic groups?

[Idalui Sonyeo]

Kavagrad, can you TG me the evidence as well? Thanks!

[Calamari]

the ‘rights’ of racist to act in a racist way don’t count for more than the rights of victims. If you want to defend sovereignity look at the western bias of world assembly law.”

I agree, the rights of racists to act in a racist way are equal to the rights of victims until actual direct harm comes upon the victims.

Have yet to find someone who is actually a victim of this behavior, mostly just people being offended for people.

[Caracasus]

Ignoring your bizarre personal attack, there are tonnes of centre-right and right wing regions out there that I've no problem with whatsoever and would strongly oppose a liberation being launched against them.

This one has a discord full of stuff worse than KR and NE. There's a difference here. I know some people feel it can be reformed, and whatever way this vote goes I really hope that happens. I'm not holding my breath however.

You don't see a-lot of condemnations/ liberations of left wing regions do you. Proposals like this that are infesting the WASC come riding in on their own wave of self righteousness and supposed intention to root out racism/ homophobia and the likes.

These sort of stunts are becoming so increasingly lazy, they literally mention fascist ideology in the proposal itself and act completely intolerant towards it. Im not saying I support fascism, but isn't it stupidly ironic when they go on to say they're "Abhorred by their attempts to eliminate ideologies they disagree with".

Find a left wing region with a discord like that and yeah, a liberation might be in order.

I should note that New Wald has told me that he's taking tighter charge in making reforms. This is certainly a wake-up, and I think it getting to vote might be enough motivation for FCN to make changes. As said above, the FCN was hijacked by alt-right, hateful forces. I think many of them engaged in strong social pressure on younger members of the region, of whom (perhaps, maybe no) Gagium is one.

It took way too long for the FCN to take action against them, yes. But I know New Waldensia. He is a friend of mine, and of upright character. We should give him and other senior FCN officials a chance. From the inside of this whole picture, it looks like this getting to vote has been enough of a wake-up call for them. I say we review the issue after having given the FCN a shot at reform, which will be significantly easier with the biggest abusers gone.

Or you guys stop the moral policing and simply leave regions alone.

Mate, you're arguing with about the only person here presenting a decent argument against this liberation. I mean, I disagree with it, but at least it contains some actual content.

[Minuda]

This entire thing is great and all, but with the repeated attacks against only Right-winged areas you would begin to doubt that the WA is neutral in political opinions. I respect that the Security council is doing something, but I also fear that these actions may be trying to shun out the Right, creating a left majority that cane easily impose more rules that fit a left agenda. Hereby I vote no in order to keep political peace and stabilize the fronts. Unless Communist are brought to the table in the next vote I will continue to question the goals of the current security council.

[Definitely Not A Front For The Imperium]

I fail to see how severe punishment of people with "bad opinions" (that are making progress in reforming and changing their ways) with a needless liberation, which "hopefully" spurs on a hostile invasion which will destroy the region, further galvanizing all opposed to the heavy-handedness of the WA, and forcing them into regions that are actually authoritarian, will help, as the motto of the damn SC says, "Spread International Peace And Goodwill."

Whilst I may be against such archaic and barbaric beliefs as racism and religious discrimination, I do not believe that an entire region needs to be destabilized for the actions of a few members of the region. Is the elimination of all who disagree with the beliefs of your various governmental systems via force the way to convince people that the WA is little more than a group of bullies going around trying to destroy regions with the wrong opinions? Is attacking any region that is really quite free and peaceful, due to members (most of which have been removed) who do espouse these barbaric beliefs of racial or religious supremacy, the new path of the SC?

If saying racist, homophobic, or anti-Semitic things is fascism, then maybe you are losing sight of what you are actually supposed to be attempting to protect the world from, not offensive comments with no real action, but authoritarians and totalitarians and everything in between. This "Most August Body" is a disgrace. Against.

Brotherly Leader Dawud Khan stares at their delegate.

“They are imperialist themselves! Did you not here their racism involves promoting violence?! Did you not hear of their aggression against other regions? We support condemnation as ourselves people vulnerable to imperialism both of the crusader model. the ‘rights’ of racist to act in a racist way don’t count for more than the rights of victims. If you want to defend sovereignity look at the western bias of world assembly law.”

This "racism" you speak of them all having is a joke. It is a bunch of edgy dudes having a laugh together on a discord channel. As for their imperialism, I am not seeing any examples of it, and am confused as to where you got the notion from, they don't (to my knowledge) raid anyone, they don't advertise as such, and this is, i believe, the first time they have come up in a WA proposal. As for being a people vulnerable to imperialism, it amuses me to hear that from a theocratic state of a religion that conquered all from Pakistan to Iberia in the name of their prophet is saying that it is vulnerable to imperialism. I, of course, believe you do not practice that same fundamentalism, but it is still amusing.

[Definitely Not A Front For The Imperium]

it is nice to have someone who speaks reason for once.

You failed to respond to my query about prioritising the rights of racists over those of members of certain ethnic groups?

Are these ethnic groups being harmed? Have you seen a single black person, or Jew, or gay man offended by these actions to the point where it needs to be brought to the Fucking World Assembly Security Council? Are you insane?

[Calamari]

You failed to respond to my query about prioritising the rights of racists over those of members of certain ethnic groups?

Are these ethnic groups being harmed? Have you seen a single black person, or Jew, or gay man offended by these actions to the point where it needs to be brought to the Fucking World Assembly Security Council? Are you insane?

Agreed. Regardless of edgy jokes in poor taste, nothing or no one seems to be suffering, except the egos of the people who wrote this resolution

[The Rhenish League]

So ... what I've figured reading along is a lot of people arguing on who posted what on a regional Discord months ago, mutual accusations of advocating ideologies promoting racism, genocide and whatnot, pages of arguing whether the 21st of June is in spring or summer, and (totally unexpected) another offensive liberation.
Honestly, I don't give a damn on ideologies, or when people posted whatever sort of dumb stuff outside NationStates. I've already expressed my opinion on 'neoliberations' multiple times, and I won't bother doing so another time. Of course, I've voted against.
Now, I know you shouldn't count chickens before they're hatched, but the current voting stance (1,689:4,924 by the second I'm writing this) does satisfy me a little, and lets me hope for some common sense to return to the WASC. At least a bit. Now don't disappoint me!

[Saranidia]

Brotherly Leader Dawud Khan stares at their delegate.

“They are imperialist themselves! Did you not here their racism involves promoting violence?! Did you not hear of their aggression against other regions? We support condemnation as ourselves people vulnerable to imperialism both of the crusader model. the ‘rights’ of racist to act in a racist way don’t count for more than the rights of victims. If you want to defend sovereignity look at the western bias of world assembly law.”

This "racism" you speak of them all having is a joke. It is a bunch of edgy dudes having a laugh together on a discord channel. As for their imperialism, I am not seeing any examples of it, and am confused as to where you got the notion from, they don't (to my knowledge) raid anyone, they don't advertise as such, and this is, i believe, the first time they have come up in a WA proposal. As for being a people vulnerable to imperialism, it amuses me to hear that from a theocratic state of a religion that conquered all from Pakistan to Iberia in the name of their prophet is saying that it is vulnerable to imperialism. I, of course, believe you do not practice that same fundamentalism, but it is still amusing.

Fair enough