[PASSED] Liberate Confederation Of Corrupt Dictators

[Nova Trieste]

Ok, but is there any proof that such claims were not in a RP context and in OC sections of the forum?

When "they were just pretending to be awful!" is your best counter-argument, it's probably time to fold.

I'm not saying that, but if fascist RP is permitted and they're only RP as fascist I just can't see where the problem is

[Blood Wine]

When "they were just pretending to be awful!" is your best counter-argument, it's probably time to fold.

I'm not saying that, but if fascist RP is permitted and they're only RP as fascist I just can't see where the problem is

You don't see the issue with pretending to be murderous bigots? gotta be kidding me

[Lord Dominator]

When "they were just pretending to be awful!" is your best counter-argument, it's probably time to fold.

I'm not saying that, but if fascist RP is permitted and they're only RP as fascist I just can't see where the problem is

The problem is that the region in question is very explicitly advertising itself as a haven for fascism, and makes no note of said stuff being entirely rp (indeed, if they were to it'd be good to ditch the fascism mentions entirely).

[Forestavia]

Well I can put some of your fears to rest. Turns out that the diasporia from toxic communities do not, in fact, make things more toxic when their communities are destroyed. Quite the opposite in fact. Things get less toxic. Perhaps because they no longer have a safe space where their views go unnchallenged.

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&sourc ... 9gJm_a3obH

And no, for the umpteenth time, taking action to stop fascists does not make you as bad as the fascists.

When freedom is under threat things DO get more toxic. This whole chamber is toxic. We are threatening natives on their own soil by using a tool called the "liberation", a tool that was meant to help natives when occupied by threatening forces. There is no safe space anymore. The Security Council is the world's aggressor. We are making the world less safe with every fake "liberation" we pass.

[Forestavia]

Respect the regional sovereignty and native rights of these nations and regions...

These people don’t even respect the fact that I’m a human being.

We need to get our act together and act like a respectable world government.

A responsible world government sees fascism on the rise and does what it can to snuff it out.

Look in the mirror! You are the one who is using the world government as a weapon to trample on the regional sovereignty of regions you don't like. You don't respect the fact that this region has a vibrant community and has as much a right to exist as you do.

And no. A responsible world government practices restraint and acts only when necessary and even then with wisdom.

[Forestavia]

The Communaccordian delegation doesn’t usually give a damn about the security council, nor the whole issue of raiding, defending, and liberation. However, in particularly outstanding instances of overreach, it is dutiful to address present absurdities.

Under the current precedent for what necessitates liberation, and taking into account the intended course of action and outcome of such resolutions, it will be found that this resolution falls laughably short in every regard.

There is no barrier to free entry, nor occupation by foreign forces, rather a prevelance of an ideology and a tolerance of which the author of this proposal unabashedly finds intolerable and sees fit to be expunged. While this sentiment may be shared by many if not a solid majority of those present, a liberation is hardly an appropriate course of action, as there are no foreign forces to be expunged, nor native residents seeking a return.

If anything, a condemnation is in order, however this resolution is entirely uncalled for, and if it passes, a repeal will be in short order.

I agree with this 100%.
The SC is trying to design a world where officers and residents of certain "unworthy" regions will not be able to set up a password when their region's founder dies off. The Security Council, a body that should stand for peace and stability, is going out of its way to destabilize the world. They are spreading fear and chaos.

[USS Monitor]

One last question, if fascist roleplay bothers you so much, why not include in the forum guidelines "You can roleplay anything you want except fascists ideologist"? At least you could hunt down "le ebil internet nahtzees" in the site without sounding like a whiny hypocrite

Continued ad homeniems aren't doing a great deal for your claim to an ascended plane of maturity. That aside, this question as to whether they are RPing or not has been answered in quite some detail by myself and others. Take a look back through the topic.

Now unless you are gonna let us all in on how you have determined that they are not fascists, that it is not a fascist region and that they are just RPing, I don't really see what there is to discuss...

All I've seen so far is asinine squabble about semantics and people whining about how a certain kind of roleplaying makes them upset, not a single objective proof (like screenshots of conversations, telegrams, forum topics and whatnot) on how the members of the CCD genuinely promotes and encourage fascist ideas. So yeah, there's not much to discuss with brainlets triggered by roleplaying they don't like.

*** Warned for flaming ***

First post quoted here wasn't quite enough to get a warning on its own, but it's quoted for context because it's treading close to the line. It's the "brainlet" line that pushed this over the edge.

[Forestavia]

Passing a preemptive liberation is not killing them. Come on now.

Also, preemptive liberations like this became a thing in the first place because condemnations do nothing. In that sense, preemptive liberations are a protest of condemnations being broken.

Commendations don't do anything either. And yet, the dictionary is very clear about what a condemnation is and what a commendation is. They are not broken. They still work. They still exist. They are a great way to label allies and enemies. Liberations, however, are a special kind of instrument that should be used wisely.

Of course you're right that a preemptive neoliberation isn't going to kill them - at least in the short term. Looking at KAISERREICH we can see that they've managed to survive with a "liberation" for many months now. But the death happens in the long term. What the Security Council is banking on is that someday the founders of these so-called "liberated" regions will die off. The long term goal is to raid these regions. So yes, long term we ARE killing regions with these fake liberations.

Now, if the Confederation of Corrupt Dictators deserves a condemnation, then we should give them one. If they deserve a commendation, then we should give them one. But let's not force-feed a liberation onto a region that doesn't want nor need to be liberated. It is foolish to liberate a region from itself. They have an active founder. The region is safe. They are not being invaded. They are not occupied. Why are we interfering in their internal affairs? I'll tell you why. Because the World Assembly has decided to get arrogant with the power that it can wield through the Security Council. The power is addictive. We have become just as authoritarian as the region we are "liberating".

There are residents in regions all over the world who would love to have a liberation because it would give them the hope that they might be able to return home again. But instead of helping those who really need it, here we are in this chamber acting all high and mighty and politicizing the very tool that was meant to help those who need it most. I guess we would rather militaristically target the nearly 500 nations that don't need to be liberated instead of helping those who do.

[Cosmopolitan borovan]

You can always find another region or found a new one it's not like your gonna die if a bunch of people are ejected it may hurt but it's not the end of the world

[Blood Wine]

Commendations don't do anything either. And yet, the dictionary is very clear about what a condemnation is and what a commendation is. They are not broken. They still work. They still exist. They are a great way to label allies and enemies. Liberations, however, are a special kind of instrument that should be used wisely.

Of course you're right that a preemptive neoliberation isn't going to kill them - at least in the short term. Looking at KAISERREICH we can see that they've managed to survive with a "liberation" for many months now. But the death happens in the long term. What the Security Council is banking on is that someday the founders of these so-called "liberated" regions will die off. The long term goal is to raid these regions. So yes, long term we ARE killing regions with these fake liberations.

Neoliberations are not about killing them - neither short or long term

Now, if the Confederation of Corrupt Dictators deserves a condemnation, then we should give them one. If they deserve a commendation, then we should give them one. But let's not force-feed a liberation onto a region that doesn't want nor need to be liberated. It is foolish to liberate a region from itself. They have an active founder. The region is safe. They are not being invaded. They are not occupied. Why are we interfering in their internal affairs? I'll tell you why. Because the World Assembly has decided to get arrogant with the power that it can wield through the Security Council. The power is addictive. We have become just as authoritarian as the region we are "liberating".

Again, no, condemnations are a badge of honor - they do not deserve a badge of honor
Neoliberations are a tool the SC invented to get around the badge of honor issue by still slapping them with a mark, but one that is not honorable

There are residents in regions all over the world who would love to have a liberation because it would give them the hope that they might be able to return home again. But instead of helping those who really need it, here we are in this chamber acting all high and mighty and politicizing the very tool that was meant to help those who need it most. I guess we would rather militaristically target the nearly 500 nations that don't need to be liberated instead of helping those who do.

The SC is inactive basically over half of the year, this argument is nonsensical

[Forestavia]

You can always find another region or found a new one it's not like your gonna die if a bunch of people are ejected it may hurt but it's not the end of the world

Oh, okay. What if that happened to your region? How would you feel? What if your whole community was broken up because of the selfish actions of the Security Council?
I'm sorry but I think that the Security Council should have your back as a citizen of the world. You should be able to know with confidence that the world government isn't going to fly in and destroy your region. The SC should protect your community. They should be the protectors and not the destroyers.

[Smitzburg]

PEOPLE SHOULD BE ALOUD TO HAVE ANY OPINION THEY WANT AS LONG AS IT DOES NOT HURT ANYONE.

how many times must that be repeated?

[Greater Cesnica]

PEOPLE SHOULD BE ALOUD TO HAVE ANY OPINION THEY WANT AS LONG AS IT DOES NOT HURT ANYONE.

how many times must that be repeated?

Well, I say that's mostly accepted universally given. Freedom of thought and expression.

[Forestavia]

Commendations don't do anything either. And yet, the dictionary is very clear about what a condemnation is and what a commendation is. They are not broken. They still work. They still exist. They are a great way to label allies and enemies. Liberations, however, are a special kind of instrument that should be used wisely.

Of course you're right that a preemptive neoliberation isn't going to kill them - at least in the short term. Looking at KAISERREICH we can see that they've managed to survive with a "liberation" for many months now. But the death happens in the long term. What the Security Council is banking on is that someday the founders of these so-called "liberated" regions will die off. The long term goal is to raid these regions. So yes, long term we ARE killing regions with these fake liberations.

Neoliberations are not about killing them - neither short or long term

Now, if the Confederation of Corrupt Dictators deserves a condemnation, then we should give them one. If they deserve a commendation, then we should give them one. But let's not force-feed a liberation onto a region that doesn't want nor need to be liberated. It is foolish to liberate a region from itself. They have an active founder. The region is safe. They are not being invaded. They are not occupied. Why are we interfering in their internal affairs? I'll tell you why. Because the World Assembly has decided to get arrogant with the power that it can wield through the Security Council. The power is addictive. We have become just as authoritarian as the region we are "liberating".

Again, no, condemnations are a badge of honor - they do not deserve a badge of honor
Neoliberations are a tool the SC invented to get around the badge of honor issue by still slapping them with a mark, but one that is not honorable

There are residents in regions all over the world who would love to have a liberation because it would give them the hope that they might be able to return home again. But instead of helping those who really need it, here we are in this chamber acting all high and mighty and politicizing the very tool that was meant to help those who need it most. I guess we would rather militaristically target the nearly 500 nations that don't need to be liberated instead of helping those who do.

The SC is inactive basically over half of the year, this argument is nonsensical

1. We are setting Jocospor's region up for an invasion months or years down the road. That sounds like regional death to me.
2. Condemnations are not a badge of honor. They are a badge of dishonor.
3. Neoliberations are not a tool. They are an abomination of the original intent.
4. Maybe the Security Council isn't looking hard enough for regions that are always on the brink of death - regions with resident natives who still want to try to save their community. They're out there. We just have to look a little closer.

[Caracasus]

PEOPLE SHOULD BE ALOUD TO HAVE ANY OPINION THEY WANT AS LONG AS IT DOES NOT HURT ANYONE.

how many times must that be repeated?

This would be much, much more relevant if this resolution was forcing people to have different opinions to the ones they hold.

Again, for the umpteenth time this does not infringe anyone's freedom of thought or expression. The members of this region are absolutely free to express themselves within the rules of the website, and can continue to do so when this resolution passes.

[Armaros]

You can always find another region or found a new one it's not like your gonna die if a bunch of people are ejected it may hurt but it's not the end of the world

Oh, okay. What if that happened to your region? How would you feel? What if your whole community was broken up because of the selfish actions of the Security Council?
I'm sorry but I think that the Security Council should have your back as a citizen of the world. You should be able to know with confidence that the world government isn't going to fly in and destroy your region. The SC should protect your community. They should be the protectors and not the destroyers.

"Selfish actions of the sc" I hope you realise you're talking about over 10 000 nations and people, each with their own stance, allignment, etc. And all with an equal say in things. Not sure how you call that "selfish".

[Greater Cesnica]

Oh, okay. What if that happened to your region? How would you feel? What if your whole community was broken up because of the selfish actions of the Security Council?
I'm sorry but I think that the Security Council should have your back as a citizen of the world. You should be able to know with confidence that the world government isn't going to fly in and destroy your region. The SC should protect your community. They should be the protectors and not the destroyers.

"Selfish actions of the sc" I hope you realise you're talking about over 10 000 nations and people, each with their own stance, allignment, etc. And all with an equal say in things. Not sure how you call that "selfish".

Paranoia, perhaps?

[Armaros]

1. We are setting Jocospor's region up for an invasion months or years down the road. That sounds like regional death to me.
2. Condemnations are not a badge of honor. They are a badge of dishonor.
3. Neoliberations are not a tool. They are an abomination of the original intent.
4. Maybe the Security Council isn't looking hard enough for regions that are always on the brink of death - regions with resident natives who still want to try to save their community. They're out there. We just have to look a little closer.

2 that's... not the case at all. They are trested as signs of honour. If you don't agree, look at condemned regions.
3 they're a tool. They can be used both ways, one to combat occupations, one to combat people seen as "bad"
4 they can make a proposal themselves. We can't look fkr them, they'll have tk come to us.

[Forestavia]

Oh, okay. What if that happened to your region? How would you feel? What if your whole community was broken up because of the selfish actions of the Security Council?
I'm sorry but I think that the Security Council should have your back as a citizen of the world. You should be able to know with confidence that the world government isn't going to fly in and destroy your region. The SC should protect your community. They should be the protectors and not the destroyers.

"Selfish actions of the sc" I hope you realise you're talking about over 10 000 nations and people, each with their own stance, allignment, etc. And all with an equal say in things. Not sure how you call that "selfish".

Ah, yes. Good point. Selfishness. Yes. Indeed.
When one is selfish they are concerned with their own self interests instead of the interests of others. In this situation, the Security Council is more concerned with punishing rather than liberating. That is the issue. What gives the Security Council the right to take the moral high ground and punish certain regions based on their culture, beliefs, and/or ideologies? If the SC was selfless, then they wouldn't give a damn about what another region believes or doesn't believe. They wouldn't have any concern in the world what ideology any region adhered to. Their only concern would be, as per their own mission statement, "to spread interregional peace and goodwill, via force if necessary".
We are in violation of our own mission because of our own bias against the evils of fascism. We are blinded by our own prejudice and therefore we are acting selfish.

[Forestavia]

1. We are setting Jocospor's region up for an invasion months or years down the road. That sounds like regional death to me.
2. Condemnations are not a badge of honor. They are a badge of dishonor.
3. Neoliberations are not a tool. They are an abomination of the original intent.
4. Maybe the Security Council isn't looking hard enough for regions that are always on the brink of death - regions with resident natives who still want to try to save their community. They're out there. We just have to look a little closer.

2 that's... not the case at all. They are trested as signs of honour. If you don't agree, look at condemned regions.
3 they're a tool. They can be used both ways, one to combat occupations, one to combat people seen as "bad"
4 they can make a proposal themselves. We can't look fkr them, they'll have tk come to us.

3. It is my strong passionate opinion that liberations should not be used both ways. Liberations should be a badge of peace, not a badge of war.

[Tigrexia]

Liberation Definition: the act of setting someone free from imprisonment, slavery, or oppression; release.
freedom from limits on thought or behavior.

Invasion Definition:an unwelcome intrusion into another's domain.
an incursion by a large number of people or things into a place or sphere of activity.

Which does this sound like?

[Lord Dominator]

Liberation Definition: the act of setting someone free from imprisonment, slavery, or oppression; release.
freedom from limits on thought or behavior.

Invasion Definition:an unwelcome intrusion into another's domain.
an incursion by a large number of people or things into a place or sphere of activity.

Which does this sound like?

Not our fault the Liberation resolution is called as such.

[Forestavia]

Liberation Definition: the act of setting someone free from imprisonment, slavery, or oppression; release.
freedom from limits on thought or behavior.

Invasion Definition:an unwelcome intrusion into another's domain.
an incursion by a large number of people or things into a place or sphere of activity.

Which does this sound like?

This is beautiful!
Perfect.

[Forestavia]

Liberation Definition: the act of setting someone free from imprisonment, slavery, or oppression; release.
freedom from limits on thought or behavior.

Invasion Definition:an unwelcome intrusion into another's domain.
an incursion by a large number of people or things into a place or sphere of activity.

Which does this sound like?

Not our fault the Liberation resolution is called as such.

But the real question is should a liberation be used as such?

[Kaboomlandia]

Not our fault the Liberation resolution is called as such.

But the real question is should a liberation be used as such?

They’ve been used before in this fashion - but those were against regions that didn’t have founders, which is the issue here - those liberations actually did something, while this resolution accomplishes nothing.