LWDT VI: Kropotkin's Bread Dead Redemption.

by **Torrocca** » Mon Sep 03, 2018 5:44 pm

The Left-Wing Discussion Thread
Vol. VI
We are the children of the people!*

Now 1,000,000% more FULLY AUTOMATED AND A LGBT+ safe place thanks to the positive intersectionality of yours truly, The Anarkitty :3

So I'll also steal Comrade Conscentia's words, and post format, and resources (from previous supreme leader UMN) and welcome you all once again to the Left-Wing Discussion Thread (LWDT), where all are welcome to discuss all matters pertaining to the political left. This is a discussion thread about left-wing politics, not a thread exclusively for left-wing people. All are invited to post here, as long as discussion pertains to the topic and complies with the forum rules.

Suggestions for improvements, changes, or additions to the poll and opening post are very welcome.

The previous iteration of the LWDT can be found here.

Relevant subjects for discussion include:

The politics, philosophies, and ideologies of the political left.
Left-wing perspectives on economics and political economy.
News and history relevant to the political left.
Left-wing responses to current events.
Left-wing perspectives on social and economic problems.
Political, social, cultural, and economic problems and their solutions according to the political left.
Leftist intersectionality with movements aimed at alleviating the suffering of oppressed minority groups such as the LGBT+ community, oppressed racial minority groups, and more.
Bread, bread, bread, and bread! Thanks Bread Santa!
How Capitalism oppresses the working class laborers of society.
Why the concept of billionaires is a horrible concept for any society, ever.
The problems facing particular left-wing movements or the political left in general, and how to resolve them.

Poll History:

”What type of leftist are you?”

Left-leaning Centrist - 50 (12%)
Social Liberal - 57 (14%)
Social Democrat - 62 (15%)
Democratic Socialist - 80 (19%)
Marxist Communist - 59 (14%)
Anarchist Communist - 41 (10%)
Collectivist Anarchist - 9 (2%)
Individualist Anarchist - 10 (2%)
Revolutionary Syndicalist - 22 (5%)
Other (Please State) - 28 (7%)

Total Votes: 418 (Recorded 26/12/2016)

”What type of leftist are you?”

Left-leaning Centrist - 57 (13%)
Left/Social Liberal - 51 (12%)
Social Democrat - 73 (17%)
Democratic Socialist - 78 (18%)
Libertarian Marxist - 22 (5%)
Other Marxist - 43 (10%)
Social Anarchist - 31 (7%)
Individualist Anarchist - 13 (3%)
Revolutionary Syndicalist - 21 (5%)
Other (Please State) - 47 (11%)

Total Votes: 436 (Recorded 05/02/2017)

”Favourite Left-Wing Thinker?”

John Rawls - 11 (7%)
John Stuart Mill - 12 (8%)
Karl Marx - 44 (29%)
Max Stirner - 11 (7%)
Simone de Beauvoir - 1 (1%)
Noam Chomsky - 13 (9%)
Peter Kropotkin - 30 (20%)
Pierre-Joseph Proudhon - 6 (4%)
Slavoj Žižek - 7 (5%)
Other (Please State) - 15 (10%)

Total Votes: 150 (Recorded 19/02/2017)

”Favourite Left-Wing Politician?”

Bernie Sanders - 25 (17%)
Clement Attlee - 9 (6%)
Eugene V. Debs - 19 (13%)
Franklin D. Roosevelt - 37 (25%)
François Mitterand - 1 (1%)
Nikita Krushchev - 4 (3%)
Nelson Mandela - 21 (14%)
Salvador Allende - 8 (5%)
Tony Benn - 4 (3%)
Other (Please State) - 23 (15%)

Total Votes: 151 (Recorded 14/03/2017)

”Favourite Left-Wing Social Movement/Revolution?”

French Revolution, 1789 (France) - 61 (14%)
Spring Of Nations, 1848 (Europe) - 34 (8%)
October Revolution, 1917 (Russia) - 60 (14%)
Spanish Revolution, 1936 (Spain) - 57 (14%)
Chinese Communist Revolution, 1946 (China) - 14 (3%)
Resistance To Apartheid, 1950 (South Africa) - 24 (6%)
Cuban Revolution, 1953 (Cuba) - 19 (5%)
Civil Rights Movement, 1954 (USA) - 123 (29%)
Occupy Movement, 2011 (International) - 10 (2%)
Other (Please State) - 19 (5%)

Total Votes: 421 (Recorded 29/7/2017)

”Preferred economic system?”

Welfare Capitalism 92 (23%)
Market Socialism 62 (16%)
Mutualism 10 (3%)
Syndicalism 40 (10%)
Communalism 13 (3%)
State Planning 36 (9%)
Decentralised Planning 27 (7%)
Higher Phase Communism 38 (10%)
Left-wing Market Anarchism 15 (4%)
Other 67 (17%)

Total Votes: 400 (Recorded 05/11/2017)

Reading Suggestions:
If you’re looking to read something relevant to left-wing politics, consider reading some of the texts below. If you think something’s missing from this list, please post a recommendation. If you think something should be removed, please explain why.

Video Suggestions:
If you’d rather watch something relevant to left-wing politics, consider having a look at some of the videos below. If you think something’s missing from this list, please post a recommendation. If you think something should be removed, please explain why.

Lots of free leftist literature is available at:

Free leftist audiobooks are also available at:

Other useful resources:

If you’re interested in discussing matters pertaining to the political right, we can recommend several entirely voluntary re-education seminars to remedy this unfortunate perspective. So, get to it.

*as we now have developed our intellectual industry, we are immediately launching the people's revolution against the fascist forces of the RWDT
I dedicate this thread in honor of Torrocca's Anarchist Internet Commune. AMA about it :3

First Poll will be added shortily after the thread is secured in its position on NSG.

by **Torrocca** » Mon Sep 03, 2018 5:44 pm

Gonna need some title suggestions to replace the placeholder, comrade <3

Also, first >:3

by **Torrocca** » Mon Sep 03, 2018 5:46 pm

The South Falls wrote:
Torrocca wrote:
It's an Anarchist movement that's created a functioning Anarchist society.

Hence why I said it's an example of AnCapistan in action.

Capitalism gives you monetary gain through the markets.

And it promotes competition over cooperation. Hence why it's a shit system.

Uxupox wrote:
Torrocca wrote:
Not necessarily. Give the people a big enough reason to take action, and it can be forced to tumble down.

such as?

A food crisis, a stock market crash, etc.

by **Jolthig** » Mon Sep 03, 2018 5:46 pm

Jolthig wrote:
Torrocca wrote:
Not necessarily. Give the people a big enough reason to take action, and it can be forced to tumble down.

Define "people"? Because people have various ideologies with some being radical.

by **Torrocca** » Mon Sep 03, 2018 5:47 pm

Jolthig wrote:
Jolthig wrote:Define "people"? Because people have various ideologies with some being radical.

The working class of society, basically.

by **United Muscovite Nations** » Mon Sep 03, 2018 5:47 pm

Having guided the Workers' State into the higher stage of communism, I relinquish my power, dissolving the state.

by **West Leas Oros 2** » Mon Sep 03, 2018 5:47 pm

Love this new thread. Too decentralized though. >:3

by **Soyuz Mladorrosov** » Mon Sep 03, 2018 5:48 pm

United Muscovite Nations wrote:Having guided the Workers' State into the higher stage of communism, I relinquish my power, dissolving the state.

t. What Lenin wished he could have said

by **Torrocca** » Mon Sep 03, 2018 5:48 pm

West Leas Oros 2 wrote:Love this new thread. Too decentralized though. >:3

The militias will keep your silly little statism away!~~

by **The South Falls** » Mon Sep 03, 2018 5:48 pm

Torrocca wrote:
The South Falls wrote:Capitalism gives you monetary gain through the markets.

And it promotes competition over cooperation. Hence why it's a shit system.

Uxupox wrote:
such as?

A food crisis, a stock market crash, etc.

Who says there would be no warlords in your system? The social contract isn't followed by all. That's why animal packs compete. The males in some species fight the other males. While this isn't beneficial, they want to spread their bloodline.

by **West Leas Oros 2** » Mon Sep 03, 2018 5:48 pm

United Muscovite Nations wrote:Having guided the Workers' State into the higher stage of communism, I relinquish my power, dissolving the state.

A N G E R E Y

by **Albrenia** » Mon Sep 03, 2018 5:48 pm

Though I am loaf to admit it, I came here in knead of a poll about bread. I'll give a toast to that.

by **The South Falls** » Mon Sep 03, 2018 5:48 pm

Torrocca wrote:
West Leas Oros 2 wrote:Love this new thread. Too decentralized though. >:3

The militias will keep your silly little statism away!~~

Sacco and Vanzetti brigades.

by **Uxupox** » Mon Sep 03, 2018 5:49 pm

Torrocca wrote:
The South Falls wrote:Capitalism gives you monetary gain through the markets.

And it promotes competition over cooperation. Hence why it's a shit system.

Uxupox wrote:
such as?

A food crisis, a stock market crash, etc.

Same thing that can allow something such as an authoritarian charismatic speaker to take hold of the reigns.

by **West Leas Oros 2** » Mon Sep 03, 2018 5:49 pm

Torrocca wrote:
West Leas Oros 2 wrote:Love this new thread. Too decentralized though. >:3

The militias will keep your silly little statism away!~~

I do love the smell of vigilantism in the morning.

by **Torrocca** » Mon Sep 03, 2018 5:50 pm

The South Falls wrote:
Torrocca wrote:
And it promotes competition over cooperation. Hence why it's a shit system.

A food crisis, a stock market crash, etc.

Who says there would be no warlords in your system? The social contract isn't followed by all. That's why animal packs compete. The males in some species fight the other males. While this isn't beneficial, they want to spread their bloodline.

Short answer would be the principle of mutual aid as described in Anarchist political theories.

Long answer's gonna have to wait a bit. Sorries ;~;

Albrenia wrote:Though I am loaf to admit it, I came here in knead of a poll about bread. I'll give a toast to that.

I'll make sure a poll like this isn't bread in captivity like the last ones. :3

by **Torrocca** » Mon Sep 03, 2018 5:50 pm

West Leas Oros 2 wrote:
Torrocca wrote:
The militias will keep your silly little statism away!~~

I do love the smell of vigilantism in the morning.

Fake news :^)

by **Jolthig** » Mon Sep 03, 2018 5:50 pm

Torrocca wrote:
Jolthig wrote:

The working class of society, basically.

Even then, they're divided. A great example is the last US election where the working were divided between Sanders, Clinton, and Trump.

by **The South Falls** » Mon Sep 03, 2018 5:51 pm

Torrocca wrote:
West Leas Oros 2 wrote:I do love the smell of vigilantism in the morning.

Fake news :^)

This very site is fake news.

by **Torrocca** » Mon Sep 03, 2018 5:51 pm

Jolthig wrote:
Torrocca wrote:
The working class of society, basically.

Even then, they're divided. A great example is the last US election where the working were divided between Sanders, Clinton, and Trump.

Fair point, but the working class would be far less divided if corrupt oligarchs and politicians were simply out of the picture, not deciding what's "best" for the workers or telling them gentle lies to garner their support.

by **Jolthig** » Mon Sep 03, 2018 5:53 pm

Democratic Communist Federation wrote:The state, in its present form, is inseparable from capitalism. We do, IMO, require some form of federation or large-scale collective. A state? I suppose if there were some way to divorce it from capitalism. I am not so sure.

Libya had that in theory I believe. I read Qaddafi's book.

The state isn't completely capitalist. Not a single western state is. It's more of a mixed economy, but yes, you're mostly correct.

by **West Leas Oros 2** » Mon Sep 03, 2018 5:53 pm

Torrocca wrote:
West Leas Oros 2 wrote:I do love the smell of vigilantism in the morning.

Fake news :^)

>a militia that is not beholden to a formal code of conduct and is self regulating not engaging in vigilante justice
Definitely fake news

by **The South Falls** » Mon Sep 03, 2018 5:53 pm

Torrocca wrote:
Jolthig wrote:Even then, they're divided. A great example is the last US election where the working were divided between Sanders, Clinton, and Trump.

Fair point, but the working class would be far less divided if corrupt oligarchs and politicians were simply out of the picture, not deciding what's "best" for the workers or telling them gentle lies to garner their support.

Then they'd fight amongst themselves. The Bolsheviks weren't a hive mind.

by **FelrikTheDeleted** » Mon Sep 03, 2018 5:54 pm

Torrocca wrote:
Jolthig wrote:Even then, they're divided. A great example is the last US election where the working were divided between Sanders, Clinton, and Trump.

Fair point, but the working class would be far less divided if corrupt oligarchs and politicians were simply out of the picture, not deciding what's "best" for the workers or telling them gentle lies to garner their support.

I doubt it, look at all the fighting between left-wing groups, and the infighting in the larger communist community.

by **West Leas Oros 2** » Mon Sep 03, 2018 5:54 pm

Torrocca wrote:
Jolthig wrote:Even then, they're divided. A great example is the last US election where the working were divided between Sanders, Clinton, and Trump.

Fair point, but the working class would be far less divided if corrupt oligarchs and politicians were simply out of the picture, not deciding what's "best" for the workers or telling them gentle lies to garner their support.

Then create a worker controlled state. Separate capitalism and the state.

LWDT VI: Kropotkin's Bread Dead Redemption.

Which Form of Leftism is The Best?

LWDT VI: Kropotkin's Bread Dead Redemption.

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