[Abortion Thread] (YET ANOTHER POLL!) Taking measure.

[New haven america]

If I wanted to walk somewhere, and you tried to make me drive instead, I wouldn't give a shit how safe or dangerous driving is.

If this is an analogy for abortion, then I would like to make the point that no one is forcing you to get pregnant. Just don't have fucking sex.

Pregnancy as a punishment! Everyone take a shot!

[Galloism]

If this is an analogy for abortion, then I would like to make the point that no one is forcing you to get pregnant. Just don't have fucking sex.

Pregnancy as a punishment! Everyone take a shot!

If I took a shot every time someone did that in this thread, I’d be dead.

[The Free Joy State]

Pregnancy as a punishment! Everyone take a shot!

If I took a shot every time someone did that in this thread, I’d be dead.

Ditto, if you took a shot every time "just keep your legs closed" came up as an argument.

[New haven america]

Pregnancy as a punishment! Everyone take a shot!

If I took a shot every time someone did that in this thread, I’d be dead.

But wouldn't the trip be worth it?

[Galloism]

If I took a shot every time someone did that in this thread, I’d be dead.

Ditto, if you took a shot every time "just keep your legs closed" came up as an argument.

I’d be super dead from that. In more than just the abortion thread. I’d not only be dead, but perfectly embalmed.

[Napkiraly]

Right, because rapists respect when you say no.
And child molesters.
And abusive partners.

Car accidents happen to people in cars -- except when the cars jump the curb, or hit pedestrians, or bike riders. So just don't drive.

Your statement is idiotic.

In very few circumstances are guns put to men's heads and they are forced to procreate.

Don't have unprotected sex with anyone. Don't have drunk sex. Or have a vasectomy. That will reduce your chances of being involved in an unexpected pregnancy to nearly nil.

Child support is not for the mother. Child support is, surprisingly enough, to feed, clothe and shelter the result of that pregnancy.

Hmm.

B T F O
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"It's okay to force men to pay for an unwanted pregnancy but not women. Equality at work." What has been demonstrated.

[Dogmeat]

If I took a shot every time someone did that in this thread, I’d be dead.

Ditto, if you took a shot every time "just keep your legs closed" came up as an argument.

Listen, it's my right to sit however I want while wearing a kilt!

[Godular]

Hmm.

B T F O
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"It's okay to force men to pay for an unwanted pregnancy but not women. Equality at work." What has been demonstrated.

Weeeeeeeell, I for one agree that the double-standard exists and would like it to be addressed as well. Mayhap improving welfare supports for single mothers would properly negate any perceived necessity of child support.

[Stagnant Axon Terminal]

Ditto, if you took a shot every time "just keep your legs closed" came up as an argument.

I’d be super dead from that. In more than just the abortion thread. I’d not only be dead, but perfectly embalmed.

A new type of mummy

[Katganistan]

B T F O
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F
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"It's okay to force men to pay for an unwanted pregnancy but not women. Equality at work." What has been demonstrated.

Weeeeeeeell, I for one agree that the double-standard exists and would like it to be addressed as well. Mayhap improving welfare supports for single mothers would properly negate any perceived necessity of child support.

It's not paying the mother. It's supporting the child. And the big difference is there are a number of ways to prevent being in the situation, as I pointed out. Contraception. Sterilization. Et cetera.

Bodily autonomy allows one to have a surgical procedure to make sure you don't have to be forced into a pregnancy in both cases. So, no, there really isn't a double standard here, unless you're suggesting there is something wrong with not being able to insist someone else have an abortion.

But please, Gallo, drag unrelated nonsense in here, same as you made that strawman in that same thread about "Kat says man can't be raped" that there was only ten years of links to refute.

[Luminesa]

It’s really not unrelated, unwanted pregnancies and rape are a part of the abortion conversation.

There was a double-standard, you clearly made a list of reasons why unwanted pregnancies were the woman’s fault. I heard a street preacher say similar things once at a girl, “Don’t go to a bar if you don’t want to get raped!” I mean, you can snark at Gallo all you want and say he made a straw man out of you, he quoted you, not himself. He then gave context for your quote. You also speak as though anyone is going to read the “ten years of refute”, whether they be on your side or not. Godular isn’t, and he’s the OP, do you expect anyone else to do it?

[AdmiralLuscious]

If this is an analogy for abortion, then I would like to make the point that no one is forcing you to get pregnant. Just don't have fucking sex.

Pregnancy as a punishment! Everyone take a shot!

"just don't have fucking sex?"... then what about the women who are raped? Who didn't have a choice...

[Galloism]

Weeeeeeeell, I for one agree that the double-standard exists and would like it to be addressed as well. Mayhap improving welfare supports for single mothers would properly negate any perceived necessity of child support.

It's not paying the mother. It's supporting the child. And the big difference is there are a number of ways to prevent being in the situation, as I pointed out. Contraception. Sterilization. Et cetera.

Bodily autonomy allows one to have a surgical procedure to make sure you don't have to be forced into a pregnancy in both cases. So, no, there really isn't a double standard here, unless you're suggesting there is something wrong with not being able to insist someone else have an abortion.

But please, Gallo, drag unrelated nonsense in here, same as you made that strawman in that same thread about "Kat says man can't be raped" that there was only ten years of links to refute.

This is all irrelevant. He argued that women should not have sex if they don’t want to deal with the consequences of sex. That’s not a good argument for lots of reasons, but instead of arguing those reasons, you argued “what about rape” - as though women commonly have a gun held to their head and are forced to procreate.

Except, in that thread (which is not mine, incidentally), you argued being forced to procreate is exceptionally rare. You argued such as an argument against being allowed to shirk the consequences of sex.

I can literally quote you to argue against you on this particular subject. It’s this all over again.

You don’t see the hypocrisy to argue “what about women who are raped” as an argument FOR getting out of the consequences of sex while arguing “men are very rarely forced to procreate” as an argument AGAINST getting out of the consequences of sex, when you well know Kat, and I know you do, that men are probably raped at about the same rate as women?

You could have made other arguments Kat. Gone into bodily autonomy, etc, but you didn’t. Instead you argued “what about rape victims” - a position you specifically argued against being used in the exact same type of question - but with the genders flipped.

And this:

And the big difference is there are a number of ways to prevent being in the situation, as I pointed out. Contraception. Sterilization. Et cetera.

Those also apply to women, in greater quantity and greater availability, than they do to men. It's not really an argument for your position in the other thread unless it's also an argument against you in THIS thread, and more strenuously.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

Weeeeeeeell, I for one agree that the double-standard exists and would like it to be addressed as well. Mayhap improving welfare supports for single mothers would properly negate any perceived necessity of child support.

It's not paying the mother. It's supporting the child. And the big difference is there are a number of ways to prevent being in the situation, as I pointed out. Contraception. Sterilization. Et cetera.

Bodily autonomy allows one to have a surgical procedure to make sure you don't have to be forced into a pregnancy in both cases. So, no, there really isn't a double standard here, unless you're suggesting there is something wrong with not being able to insist someone else have an abortion.

But please, Gallo, drag unrelated nonsense in here, same as you made that strawman in that same thread about "Kat says man can't be raped" that there was only ten years of links to refute.

It's not really unrelated.

You made a horrible argument in that thread -- namely, male victims of rape are so exceptionally rare, despite the numbers, because in your opinion "men do not get to have a gun pointed at their heads and forced to procreate" which is the literal purpose of sex, so we should just protect ourselves to not end up with an unwanted pregnancy against our will, and having to pay child support as a result.

In this instance, you're using the same exact argument, but in reverse, that because women are so commonly raped, they should be given a pass from the consequences of said rape, when your own previous notion suggests you hardly care about people at all getting a baby dropped on them against their will because as you put it "assholes were looking to stick a dick somewhere".

That's hypocritical. The purpose of child support is frankly irrelevant, here, to the crux of your problematic argument and inconsistent position. 10 years in the making of better arguments against rape for both men and women are also irrelevant to the inconsistency shown.

[Ifreann]

Pregnancy as a punishment! Everyone take a shot!

If I took a shot every time someone did that in this thread, I’d be dead.

Pfft, lightweight.

[Galloism]

If I took a shot every time someone did that in this thread, I’d be dead.

Pfft, lightweight.

That much alcohol could give Chuck Norris a hangover.

[Luminesa]

Pfft, lightweight.

That much alcohol could give Chuck Norris a hangover.

Chuck Norris doesn’t get hangovers, the alcohol just gets scared of him and doesn’t know how to leave his body.

[Godular]

Weeeeeeeell, I for one agree that the double-standard exists and would like it to be addressed as well. Mayhap improving welfare supports for single mothers would properly negate any perceived necessity of child support.

It's not paying the mother. It's supporting the child. And the big difference is there are a number of ways to prevent being in the situation, as I pointed out. Contraception. Sterilization. Et cetera.

Bodily autonomy allows one to have a surgical procedure to make sure you don't have to be forced into a pregnancy in both cases. So, no, there really isn't a double standard here, unless you're suggesting there is something wrong with not being able to insist someone else have an abortion.

But please, Gallo, drag unrelated nonsense in here, same as you made that strawman in that same thread about "Kat says man can't be raped" that there was only ten years of links to refute.

My suggestion is that in the interests of equal treatment— and also for logical consistency— that if women are permitted to unilaterally terminate their connection to the life within them (which I fully support as you well know), then men should possess a similarly unilateral means of severing that connection as well.

With sufficient welfare support, whether this would impose on the woman’s capacity to raise the child would be a moot concern.

[Godular]

That much alcohol could give Chuck Norris a hangover.

Chuck Norris doesn’t get hangovers, the alcohol just gets scared of him and doesn’t know how to leave his body.

Chuck Norris doesn’t get hangovers, the alcohol does.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

I should mention, Kat, you're still making the same exact error when you say: "And the big difference is there are a number of ways to prevent being in the situation, as I pointed out. Contraception. Sterilization. Et cetera." in a thread where you want abortion to be defensible.

"Oh he got a woman pregnant against his will? Too bad, he still has to pay for a child he was forced to conceive against his will. He should have thought of the possibility of being raped and conceive a child against his will before going out to have fun, BECAUSE THINK OF THE POOR CHILD! THIS IS NOT FOR THE MOTHER AT ALL! THE CHILD NEEDS HIM!" << literally what you're implying with that defense.

If you truly believe we should snip to avoid conceiving a child after we are raped by a woman unless we have a literal gun against our heads, why do you not believe that women should tie their tubes so they don't get a child after they are raped?

[Luminesa]

Chuck Norris doesn’t get hangovers, the alcohol just gets scared of him and doesn’t know how to leave his body.

Chuck Norris doesn’t get hangovers, the alcohol does.

...You made my Chuck Norris joke even better.

[The Alma Mater]

I should mention, Kat, you're still making the same exact error when you say: "And the big difference is there are a number of ways to prevent being in the situation, as I pointed out. Contraception. Sterilization. Et cetera." in a thread where you want abortion to be defensible.

"Oh he got a woman pregnant against his will? Too bad, he still has to pay for a child he was forced to conceive against his will. He should have thought of the possibility of being raped and conceive a child against his will before going out to have fun, BECAUSE THINK OF THE POOR CHILD! THIS IS NOT FOR THE MOTHER AT ALL! THE CHILD NEEDS HIM!" << literally what you're implying with that defense.

If you truly believe we should snip to avoid conceiving a child after we are raped by a woman unless we have a literal gun against our heads, why do you not believe that women should tie their tubes so they don't get a child after they are raped?

A fair question. To expand on it - why not castrate catholic priests before they rape kids ?

[Godular]

Chuck Norris doesn’t get hangovers, the alcohol does.

...You made my Chuck Norris joke even better.

Mwee hee hee.

Also ermergerd we just had an interaction where we don’t snarl at each other IN an abortion thread. Alert the press.

[FelrikTheDeleted]

I should mention, Kat, you're still making the same exact error when you say: "And the big difference is there are a number of ways to prevent being in the situation, as I pointed out. Contraception. Sterilization. Et cetera." in a thread where you want abortion to be defensible.

"Oh he got a woman pregnant against his will? Too bad, he still has to pay for a child he was forced to conceive against his will. He should have thought of the possibility of being raped and conceive a child against his will before going out to have fun, BECAUSE THINK OF THE POOR CHILD! THIS IS NOT FOR THE MOTHER AT ALL! THE CHILD NEEDS HIM!" << literally what you're implying with that defense.

If you truly believe we should snip to avoid conceiving a child after we are raped by a woman unless we have a literal gun against our heads, why do you not believe that women should tie their tubes so they don't get a child after they are raped?

A fair question. To expand on it - why not castrate catholic priests before they rape kids ?

Besides the fact that the vast majority of priests aren’t kiddie didlers?

[Luminesa]

...You made my Chuck Norris joke even better.

Mwee hee hee.

Also ermergerd we just had an interaction where we don’t snarl at each other IN an abortion thread. Alert the press.

Proof that Chuck Norris makes everything better.