Embassy of the South Pacific

[Slithering Snakes]

Just out of curiosity what is the percentage of the cabinet that is not former or present members of TGW?

Hi little puppet,

75%

Is there something wrong with the water down in TSP? Seems to be lots of bad intel and fake news coming from there lately. It must be the most outspoken members of the cabinet then that have affiliation with TGW then.

Please keep making claims about TRI and their members. None of us have BINGO yet from TSP's bad research.

[Drop Your Pants]

Is there something wrong with the water down in TSP? Seems to be lots of bad intel and fake news coming from there lately. It must be the most outspoken members of the cabinet then that have affiliation with TGW then.

Please keep making claims about TRI and their members. None of us have BINGO yet from TSP's bad research.

Typical raider response, 'lets switch this to TGW and blame them instead'. Do go away little puppet and make up your own arguments.

[Hesskin Empire]

Is there something wrong with the water down in TSP? Seems to be lots of bad intel and fake news coming from there lately. It must be the most outspoken members of the cabinet then that have affiliation with TGW then.

Please keep making claims about TRI and their members. None of us have BINGO yet from TSP's bad research.

Typical raider response, 'lets switch this to TGW and blame them instead'. Do go away little puppet and make up your own arguments.

Hey little puppet, why don't y'all do your research?

[McManniaa]

Is there something wrong with the water down in TSP? Seems to be lots of bad intel and fake news coming from there lately. It must be the most outspoken members of the cabinet then that have affiliation with TGW then.

Please keep making claims about TRI and their members. None of us have BINGO yet from TSP's bad research.

Typical raider response, 'lets switch this to TGW and blame them instead'. Do go away little puppet and make up your own arguments.

We’ll do that when you guys in TSP learn how to do proper research and fact check your public proscriptions. They typically teach how to do so in grade school.

[RiderSyl]

Is there something wrong with the water down in TSP? Seems to be lots of bad intel and fake news coming from there lately. It must be the most outspoken members of the cabinet then that have affiliation with TGW then.

Please keep making claims about TRI and their members. None of us have BINGO yet from TSP's bad research.

Typical raider response, 'lets switch this to TGW and blame them instead'. Do go away little puppet and make up your own arguments.

1. Maybe if you're going to complain about someone being unoriginal, don't just repeat Tim's snark word for word. Just a thought!
2. I mean, this is obviously partisan hackery, so blaming those that would logically be the most partisan in TSP isn't a stretch by any means. Glen-Rhodes has never been a Warden though and he's an unabashed partisan, so it's not a 1:1 comparison.

[Imkitopia]

It's been a wild ride for me today, okay, I don't particularly get along with Imki or Escade, and yet I hear and see that we've all been pretty united in the general sense of "TSP could probably find some reason to proscribe Souls properly if they really wanted to (or even alter the act to do so if they must), and we don't particularly like each other, but these particular reasons are some pretty lazy BS."

Strange bedfellows.

I look forward to this court case progressing.

My issue isn't with your proscription as I'm no longer involved or have any interest in the affairs of TSP unless they concern Lazarus. What annoys me is their use of an event that happened a long time ago to paint me as some kind of victim when I have said repeatedly and publicly that it was not an issue in any way, shape or form and nobody cared about it at the time. It just seems like a terrible attempt to pad a flimsy argument and I am not happy about being their tool in that when they know damn well, had I been involved still, I would have rejected the claims. I was not asked about it by the current cabinet or told it would go public. When I tried to speak to PM Farengeto I was unsurprisingly ignored and the FA minister Resentine didn't seem to actually know anything about the event in question at all.

Not confidence building for sure there TSP. Sort your act out.

[Kringalia]

Is there something wrong with the water down in TSP?

You know, water in TSP has been tasting weird lately! It’s almost like someone has been mixing our water supply with small amounts of SPIT.

Hey...that’s a great idea for a mock case! Tampering with the water supply to make people more reliant on actual SPIT and increase its sales!

[Glen-Rhodes]

I really look forward to you all extolling the virtues of editing and evidence, when we revisit Balder's and Osiris's proscriptions that none of you found lacking in any metric. You all are, of course, exemplars of consistency in values and beliefs.

Did you just use a "whataboutism" logical fallacy? Yeah, you did.

Also, let's not get into the fact that you're putting all the burden of proof and evidence on the accused while presenting largely nothing but vague accusations.

I know TSP has a loose sense of legal rights, but that's a pretty bad subversion of justice even for a government as undemocratic as TSP.

“Whataboutism” is a fallacy wherein hypocrisy is highlighted to discredit an opponent, rather than defend one’s own position. I am calling out your hypocrisy, while TSP’s decision is also being defended. So no, not whataboutism— just a legitimate point that none of you are actually engaging in good faith. We can all play this song and dance, but it’s the same people trolling TSP that have been doing the same thing for the past 2 years or so.

If you want to criticize, then be consistent and also criticize your friends in Balder, and then acknowledge how ridiculous Osiris’s proscriptions are. Only then are your criticisms of TSP worth anything.

Anyways, Souls’s proscription is based on evidence that the court will see. Unlike Balder and Osiris — and unlike you, when you couped Lazarus — TSP values the rule of law and the role of our judiciary. Souls gets their day, and I’m confident the court will see the evidence and reach the same conclusion as Roavin, Escade (yes, she voted for this), Tim, Somyrion, Farengeto, Nakari, and Resentine reached.

In the meantime, you will continue trolling, Imki will continue making dumb demands that nobody’s allowed to say her name, and McMannia will... be McMannia, I guess. TSP will move forward safer than it was. Balder and Osiris will never face criticism from you lot. And next month, you’ll all find something else to fill your bad faith trolling needs.

[Drop Your Pants]

We’ll do that when you guys in TSP learn how to do proper research and fact check your public proscriptions. They typically teach how to do so in grade school.

Us guys in TSP? I'm not nor ever have been part of TSP. Fact checking is bad on both sides it seems

And what level is grade school? You have to remember not everyone is from the same country here.

[Evil Wolf]

“Whataboutism” is a fallacy wherein hypocrisy is highlighted to discredit an opponent, rather than defend one’s own position. I am calling out your hypocrisy, while TSP’s decision is also being defended. So no, not whataboutism— just a legitimate point that none of you are actually engaging in good faith.

I'm not sure how pointing out that I didn't talk about TSP's proscription from two regions that I am not, in any way, involved in has anything to do with you justifying TSP's proscription of me.

That seems like classic false equivalence and "whataboutism" to me. The two are not at all related.

[RiderSyl]

Roavin: Imki was bullied by Souls
Official TSP post: Imki was harassed by Souls
Imki herself: No I wasn't, stop it.
Glen: What a dumb demand!

what a trainwreck. I feel sorry for poor Resentine.

[Imkitopia]

... Imki will continue making dumb demands that nobody’s allowed to say her name...

You're painting me like a victim because it suits you despite the fact I've clearly said that is not the case many times before. It's not dumb in the slightest and I'm perfectly within my right to be annoyed about it. You clearly don't have a clue about the event as is obvious from your grossly exaggerated use of it.
I mean, you can carry on acting like a fool with your fake news but I'm going to continue to clarify the truth if you're going to use me in it. This is nothing more than the typical scaremongering tactics you're so fond of which fine, use them to your hearts content to control your region, but don't bring me into it. I disputed it when it was raised the last time TSP tried to proscribe Souls/TBH and I am sure as hell going to dispute it now when I wasn't even approached by your incompetent cabinet about this and they don't even seem to know the story themselves.
I don't want to have to get involved any more than you want me to so get your facts right and don't try and use me as your damsel in distress when it suits your agenda if you don't want me kicking up a stink about it.

[Evil Wolf]

Anyways, Souls’s proscription is based on evidence that the court will see. Unlike Balder and Osiris — and unlike you, when you couped Lazarus — TSP values the rule of law and the role of our judiciary. Souls gets their day, and I’m confident the court will see the evidence and reach the same conclusion as Roavin, Escade (yes, she voted for this), Tim, Somyrion, Farengeto, Nakari, and Resentine reached.

Glen, you're on the Court. You just admitted personal bias in this case.

If you have any respect for justice and the rule of law, then you should recuse yourself immediately.

If you're so sure that EWS will be found guilty, you wouldn't mind letting a neutral party determine that, would you?

[Syberis]

Did you just use a "whataboutism" logical fallacy? Yeah, you did.

Also, let's not get into the fact that you're putting all the burden of proof and evidence on the accused while presenting largely nothing but vague accusations.

I know TSP has a loose sense of legal rights, but that's a pretty bad subversion of justice even for a government as undemocratic as TSP.

“Whataboutism” is a fallacy wherein hypocrisy is highlighted to discredit an opponent, rather than defend one’s own position. I am calling out your hypocrisy, while TSP’s decision is also being defended. So no, not whataboutism— just a legitimate point that none of you are actually engaging in good faith. We can all play this song and dance, but it’s the same people trolling TSP that have been doing the same thing for the past 2 years or so.

If you want to criticize, then be consistent and also criticize your friends in Balder, and then acknowledge how ridiculous Osiris’s proscriptions are. Only then are your criticisms of TSP worth anything.

Anyways, Souls’s proscription is based on evidence that the court will see. Unlike Balder and Osiris — and unlike you, when you couped Lazarus — TSP values the rule of law and the role of our judiciary. Souls gets their day, and I’m confident the court will see the evidence and reach the same conclusion as Roavin, Escade (yes, she voted for this), Tim, Somyrion, Farengeto, Nakari, and Resentine reached.

In the meantime, you will continue trolling, Imki will continue making dumb demands that nobody’s allowed to say her name, and McMannia will... be McMannia, I guess. TSP will move forward safer than it was. Balder and Osiris will never face criticism from you lot. And next month, you’ll all find something else to fill your bad faith trolling needs.

If you're accusing someone of bad faith posting and trolling, I'm sure you're well aware of the place to take that up, Glen.

Additionally, Osiris does value the rule of law. Their law being different from yours does not make them disrespectful of the rule of law. If they don't wish a region to be present, they have a simple, effective law for that. They don't need to post pages of bullshit and debate about it on their forum. I would say that's more effective. Your definition of "Rule of Law" apparently means "Rule of what Glen likes."

I don't think you've been informed of what Osiris actually does or how its laws work since before April 2016, because your knowledge of the region is... sub-par at best. Either that, or you're making no effort to fact-check your posts. Would you like me to post the relevant text of the law so that you can read it, or would you prefer I ask someone to read it to you so you can take notes? I'm not sure what your learning style is, so I must ask. I've been told that Koth has quite a nice voice.

In either case, I'll DM it to you, once you deign to unblock me. Let's get back to the fact that if TSP wanted to proscribe people because they didn't like them, they should have just made the law able to do that. It's so much more freeing.

[Jakker]

In the meantime, you will continue trolling, Imki will continue making dumb demands that nobody’s allowed to say her name, and McMannia will... be McMannia, I guess. TSP will move forward safer than it was. Balder and Osiris will never face criticism from you lot. And next month, you’ll all find something else to fill your bad faith trolling needs.

It is not for you to decide what constitutes trolling on the forum. Unofficial warning for Trollnaming.

[Cormactopia Prime]

Escade (yes, she voted for this)

Are you supposed to be telling us that? I don't see it in any public area of TSP's forum.

I would certainly hope you're not abusing your legislator/admin access to areas of TSP's forum to disclose confidential information about one of your political enemies in TSP to the Gameplay forum. Because TSP has laws against that, and I know how big you are on the rule of law. You just said so.

[Syberis]

Escade (yes, she voted for this)

Are you supposed to be telling us that? I don't see it in any public area of TSP's forum.

I would certainly hope you're not abusing your legislator/admin access to areas of TSP's forum to disclose confidential information about one of your political enemies in TSP to the Gameplay forum. Because TSP has laws against that, and I know how big you are on the rule of law. You just said so.

To clarify, Glen has stated that the statement of unanimity makes it clear that she was voting "Aye" instead of abstaining, which is a major legal question that specific RL groups have still debated, and as far as I'm aware, hasn't been defined by TSP. Unanimous vote can mean, depending on the situation, all Ayes, or no Nays, which are very different things when a third option vote is presented.

He then, when faced with this fact, posted "She didn’t abstain......" which doubled down on potentially leaking from Cabinet votes, as there was still some measure of doubt and debate as to what it meant, which he then made a point to dispel.

In either case, it was a really, really poor decision that I'm sure opens a legal can of worms for TSP moving forward, because it's now something that needs to be defined to determine whether Glen leaked from TSP's Cabinet.

[Ever-Wandering Souls]

Roavin: Imki was bullied by Souls
Official TSP post: Imki was harassed by Souls
Imki herself: No I wasn't, stop it.
Glen: What a dumb demand!

what a trainwreck. I feel sorry for poor Resentine.

I'm almost used to it. This claim has been coming up in TSP, led by Roavin, and dismissed actively by Imki, literally for ages now. Some of the earlier times I've only heard gossip of due to coming up in places I am not, but Imki or others can share detail.

Like, literally, I'm looking at this exact convo with Imki in Feb/March 2017, where Roavin is accusing me of borderline harassing her, Imki is saying this is bullshit, Imki is also saying even then that if anyone, it was Spiritus who was basically trying to blackmail the SPSF, and Roavin at the time ultimately backed down from his claims and apologized for "exaggerating the severity of the incident." And yet it comes up again, and again, and a-fucking-gain.

Imki has no reason to lie to protect me. I'm confident in saying she has little reason to like me at all. I hear I've been called a "moaning little windbag," which, fine, sure, probably fair at times. But the fact remains, everyone actually tied to this incident has said it's a nothing, except for the dude whose activities were the subject of the incident and apologized for by Imki at the time, who appears to have been holding one hell of a grudge over it ever since.

[McManniaa]

We’ll do that when you guys in TSP learn how to do proper research and fact check your public proscriptions. They typically teach how to do so in grade school.

Us guys in TSP? I'm not nor ever have been part of TSP. Fact checking is bad on both sides it seems

And what level is grade school? You have to remember not everyone is from the same country here.

Syl, i see your reply but as per usual it offers nothing of value beyond your unhealthy obsession with Glen.

I mean you're clearly on a computer of some sort. Wikipedia exists. Do some research on what grade school is pantsy.

[Imkitopia]

Imki has no reason to lie to protect me. I'm confident in saying she has little reason to like me at all. I hear I've been called a "moaning little windbag," which, fine, sure, probably fair at times. But the fact remains, everyone actually tied to this incident has said it's a nothing, except for the dude whose activities were the subject of the incident and apologized for by Imki at the time, who appears to have been holding one hell of a grudge over it ever since.

Can confirm, not a big Souls fan lately. I still have my integrity though and while essay speeches are annoying I have not, to my recollection, called them anything worse. I could sit back and enjoy the irony of even being involved in this silly situation after the whole NSWF thing but I'm not saying it to defend Souls, I'm saying it to avoid being a weapon in a fight that I really couldn't give a rat's furry bottom about.

[Greyghost]

The fact that I'm here, posting. On this forum. Should speak volumes as to how upset I am about this, because most are aware I avoid posting on these forums. That doesn't mean I don't hear or look to see what goes on, though.

First and foremost, I was not approached or asked at all before I was cited in this statement- this point will be very important in a moment. Since I was not approached, not only am I irritated that I wasn't asked if I were okay with this, but large factual errors were made because I was not consulted. Souls never blackmailed me, he bullied me and my region. To be perfectly clear, I was diplomatically bullied, he did not bully me in an OOC matter in the least. Roavin admitted to this error nonchalantly, basically saying "same difference", but no. I'm sorry. Blackmail is not only a crime, but nowehere near the definition of bullying. So. To recap. Not only was I not informed I would be cited, I was severely miscited and someone becoming proscribed was the result of it. I would not have consented to this had I known because no one even asked for evidence. That is an alarm bell to me as well.

Secondly. While it is true my home region, TEP, blacklisted TBH due to this bullying, it was not mentioned at all that we have since reconciled with them and they have been removed from our blacklist because they have since remedied the issue. So using an issue that has since been addressed and fixed as a reason to proscribe someone doesn't make any sense, but seeing as the sense wasn't made to consult people being cited, I suppose I cannot be surprised. (Imki and Dave stated they were not consulted either)

Last, but certainly the icing on the cake that made me sour, when I approached the user who made the post and supposed Prime Minister, Farengeto, he tiptoed around it and pretty much insinuated he was not responsible for it and that Roavin was. I was met with excuses as to how this happened, but not once was I asked if i would like to have the bit about me edited or removed, and when I stated I was concerned and upset, I was met with silence.

But! I have some hope, Resentine spoke with me and handled it very well. He asked me if I would like anything edited to be accurate and he apologized to me as well as to admitting it was a mistake and he would do his best to help fix it and address my concerns over this. I am not impressed with TSP in the least, seeing as Roavin didn't even respond to my post in NSGP Discord, but I certainly am impressed with Resentine and believe I will be going through him with this matter. This post wasn't to throw TSP down, simply to put the facts right concerning this matter and to express the less than satisfactory way my concerns were met because I obviously wasn't going to have them addressed in the formal channels I went through. Except for Resentine... I just met him, but he's a gem. If you're reading this, my thanks goes out to you, you're a cool dude. o/ *out of breath* And this is my yearly onsite post. Good day, all.

~G

[Ever-Wandering Souls]

It's the MOFA's job to promise to fix things and smooth them over. We'll see if it actually gets done. Perhaps the Cabinet will choose to abandon this proscription entirely in its current state, and issue a new, corrected one that they think they can better defend in court, but I'm not sure how likely that is.

Certainly, from a legal standpoint, I'd prefer they not go around editing the content of the formally voted on Proscription all willy-nilly. Hard to fight a case against a fluid document.

Certainly, it becomes more clear with every development that despite supposedly kicking some of these proscriptions around for years, TSP failed to do adequate basic research on the claims being made against several of us, and none of the elected officials who approved it bothered to confirm that everything in it was even true, to the barest standards of fact-checking. I might suggested that said officials take a bit more care in the future as to what they stamp their name on.

[Roavin]

seeing as Roavin didn't even respond to my post in NSGP Discord

There's a whole smorgasbord of things there that I haven't responded to yet. Rest assured, I'm always the one guy there responding to TSP stuff there even if nobody else is, and have been that one guy even after leaving Cabinet. That I haven't responded isn't because I ignored it but just that I haven't gotten to it yet.

(just like there's a whole bunch of stuff here I haven't responded to yet, but certainly will)

[Greyghost]

seeing as Roavin didn't even respond to my post in NSGP Discord

There's a whole smorgasbord of things there that I haven't responded to yet. Rest assured, I'm always the one guy there responding to TSP stuff there even if nobody else is, and have been that one guy even after leaving Cabinet. That I haven't responded isn't because I ignored it but just that I haven't gotten to it yet.

(just like there's a whole bunch of stuff here I haven't responded to yet, but certainly will)

I really appreciate you explaining as such- I apologize for misunderstanding. I saw you post not even five minutes before I made the post and the chat went quiet for a good fifteen minutes after I posted it, so I assumed I was being ignored. My second post in a row within a week... no.. an hour. Terrifying.

[Roavin]

Soon you'll be stalking this forum daily, refreshing every few minutes, waiting for that one post to pounce on, getting charged up, having bookmarked links to posts to weaponize later....

all good, response coming sooooooooooon