[Abortion Thread] (YET ANOTHER POLL!) Taking measure.

[Page]

You want people to have babies conceived of rape? What if mother's lives are at serious risk? (Ectopic pregnancies, etc.)

C-sections are a good option if their mother's live is at risk, and my mother had a high blood pressure, so i was forced to born earlier, (I should be born in March)

There are numerous complications that can threaten the life of both the mother and the fetus that a c-section can't fix.

[Geneviev]

C-sections are a good option if their mother's live is at risk, and my mother had a high blood pressure, so i was forced to born earlier, (I should be born in March)

There are numerous complications that can threaten the life of both the mother and the fetus that a c-section can't fix.

What are those?

[The South Falls]

You want people to have babies conceived of rape? What if mother's lives are at serious risk? (Ectopic pregnancies, etc.)

C-sections are a good option if their mother's live is at risk, and my mother had a high blood pressure, so i was forced to born earlier, (I should be born in March). And they can aso adopt the baby after the birth

I think a woman has enough right to her body that she can choose if she wants to have an Abortion.

[Irish Laren]

C-sections are a good option if their mother's live is at risk, and my mother had a high blood pressure, so i was forced to born earlier, (I should be born in March). And they can aso adopt the baby after the birth

I think a woman has enough right to her body that she can choose if she wants to have an Abortion.

No, abortion is a crime

[Ifreann]

I think a woman has enough right to her body that she can choose if she wants to have an Abortion.

No, abortion is a crime

No it isn't.

[Vassenor]

I think a woman has enough right to her body that she can choose if she wants to have an Abortion.

No, abortion is a crime

Which country are we talking about here? Because I'm pretty sure it's not in the US or the UK (apart from NI because fuck the DUP).

[Irish Laren]

No, abortion is a crime

No it isn't.

Yes, and it's child murder

[The South Falls]

No it isn't.

Yes, and it's child murder

Alright, back to the old routine. if you're not born, you're not a child.

[Irish Laren]

No, abortion is a crime

Which country are we talking about here? Because I'm pretty sure it's not in the US or the UK (apart from NI because fuck the DUP).

And you should stop attacking Conservatives

[Geneviev]

Yes, and it's child murder

Alright, back to the old routine. if you're not born, you're not a child.

Can we just all agree that we will never agree on this and so there's no point in trying?

[Vassenor]

Which country are we talking about here? Because I'm pretty sure it's not in the US or the UK (apart from NI because fuck the DUP).

And you should stop attacking Conservatives

Right how dare I hate the party that's set equal rights in NI back several decades.

[Irish Laren]

Yes, and it's child murder

Alright, back to the old routine. if you're not born, you're not a child.

Yes you are, at the moment the heart starts beating it's a living baby

[Ifreann]

No it isn't.

Yes, and it's child murder

For it to be a crime it would have to be against the law. And it isn't against the law. So it can't be a crime.

[Geneviev]

Alright, back to the old routine. if you're not born, you're not a child.

Yes you are, at the moment the heart starts beating it's a living baby

As much as I agree, you can't convince them of this. They'll always think that a baby isn't a person until it's born.

Also, Christian song reference. Tim Neufeld, Heart Starts Beating.

[The South Falls]

Alright, back to the old routine. if you're not born, you're not a child.

Yes you are, at the moment the heart starts beating it's a living baby

You know what, fuck it, we're never going to agree on this shit. I'll say it's when it's born, but you can say whatever. Do you really want to go on that?

[Irish Laren]

Yes you are, at the moment the heart starts beating it's a living baby

You know what, fuck it, we're never going to agree on this shit. I'll say it's when it's born, but you can say whatever. Do you really want to go on that?

That's up to you

[Page]

Alright, back to the old routine. if you're not born, you're not a child.

Yes you are, at the moment the heart starts beating it's a living baby

Before, you said you were against abortion with no exceptions, now you're saying that a heartbeat is the line, but that would mean you accept abortions early in pregnancy, so which is it?

Also, I know how much anti-abortion people love bringing up a fetus' heartbeat, but have you ever stopped to think about how arbitrary and meaningless this milestone is? You need lungs to live too, why not the develop of lungs rather than the heartbeat? A fetus definitely needs a liver to keep living, why a heartbeat rather than a liver? What about bones? You're not going to last without bones. Why is it always the heartbeat?

Bringing up the heartbeat is not an ethical argument against abortion, it's an appeal to emotion because many people view the heart as important symbol of life. But it's just an organ, there is no scientific reason to elevate it over any other biological function.

[The Free Joy State]

You want people to have babies conceived of rape? What if mother's lives are at serious risk? (Ectopic pregnancies, etc.)

C-sections are a good option if their mother's live is at risk, and my mother had a high blood pressure, so i was forced to born earlier, (I should be born in March)

An ectopic pregnancy could rupture and kill the woman well before the foetus would be viable to survive a C-section.

Symptoms tend to develop at the 12^th week. The only real treatment is to abort the baby with Methotrexate or to remove by keyhole surgery. It's sad, but true.

So, rather than letting a woman have a clean and quick abortion, you'd be forcing her to have open abdominal surgery, for... literally no different outcome for the foetus and a much riskier outcome -- open surgery is risky and the general anaesthesia often used is always potentially dangerous -- for the woman?

And, with the sole exception of Malta (where it's always illegal), abortion is not a crime.

EDIT: That just reminded me about one of the cases before Ireland's ban was overturned. Savita Halappanavar developed a ruptured membrane at seventeen weeks gestation. She was miscarrying anyway, but the doctors refused to abort because "Ireland is a Catholic country" and there was still a foetal heartbeat. She developed sepsis and died seven days later

Anyone in favour of denying even medical abortions should think on cases like that.

And, for my views, I am in favour of legal abortion up until foetal viability (and several weeks beyond for maternal health, if doctors' agree that the mother's medical need outweighs other considerations). But I think it's very sad and I'm uncomfortable about them on a personal level.

I wish there were fewer abortions. I think though, that that shouldn't be achieved by legislation. Rather, it should be achieved by distributing free contraception, providing better and comprehensive sex education; by destigmatising welfare and by increasing the quantity of it and the availability to those in need. It should be achieved by funding better state education and healthcare so that women who have unplanned pregnancies don't feel so helpless.

[Godular]

Alright, back to the old routine. if you're not born, you're not a child.

Yes you are, at the moment the heart starts beating it's a living baby

That does not give it the right to usurp control of another person’s body.

[Irish Laren]

Yes you are, at the moment the heart starts beating it's a living baby

Before, you said you were against abortion with no exceptions, now you're saying that a heartbeat is the line, but that would mean you accept abortions early in pregnancy, so which is it?

Also, I know how much anti-abortion people love bringing up a fetus' heartbeat, but have you ever stopped to think about how arbitrary and meaningless this milestone is? You need lungs to live too, why not the develop of lungs rather than the heartbeat? A fetus definitely needs a liver to keep living, why a heartbeat rather than a liver? What about bones? You're not going to last without bones. Why is it always the heartbeat?

Bringing up the heartbeat is not an ethical argument against abortion, it's an appeal to emotion because many people view the heart as important symbol of life. But it's just an organ, there is no scientific reason to elevate it over any other biological function.

As I said: Abortion should be illegal, no matter what

[The South Falls]

Before, you said you were against abortion with no exceptions, now you're saying that a heartbeat is the line, but that would mean you accept abortions early in pregnancy, so which is it?

Also, I know how much anti-abortion people love bringing up a fetus' heartbeat, but have you ever stopped to think about how arbitrary and meaningless this milestone is? You need lungs to live too, why not the develop of lungs rather than the heartbeat? A fetus definitely needs a liver to keep living, why a heartbeat rather than a liver? What about bones? You're not going to last without bones. Why is it always the heartbeat?

Bringing up the heartbeat is not an ethical argument against abortion, it's an appeal to emotion because many people view the heart as important symbol of life. But it's just an organ, there is no scientific reason to elevate it over any other biological function.

As I said: Abortion should be illegal, no matter what

My man, did you read what Joy posted? There are people who, in Ireland, (before the referenda) that had pregnancies where the fetus couldn't have gone to term, and c-section wasn't possible. The lady died of sepsis seven days later.

[The Free Joy State]

As I said: Abortion should be illegal, no matter what

My man, did you read what Joy posted? There are people who, in Ireland, (before the referenda) that had pregnancies where the fetus couldn't have gone to term, and c-section wasn't possible. The lady died of sepsis seven days later.

It gets worse.

A woman in Ireland -- with cancer (link's behind a paywall) -- was denied a termination, despite medical advice, because her life was "not in immediate danger"). She travelled to Britain, and did live, but it used to be a regular occurrence in Ireland apparently.

In Italy, another woman -- pregnant with twins -- began premature labour at nineteen weeks. She was admitted to hospital and became desperately ill. One of the foetuses were also struggling to breathe. Her doctor refused to abort because "he was a conscientious objector to abortion". She contracted an infection and died.

[Vassenor]

My man, did you read what Joy posted? There are people who, in Ireland, (before the referenda) that had pregnancies where the fetus couldn't have gone to term, and c-section wasn't possible. The lady died of sepsis seven days later.

It gets worse.

A woman in Ireland -- with cancer (link's behind a paywall) -- was denied a termination, despite medical advice, because her life was "not in immediate danger)

In Italy, another woman -- pregnant with twins -- began premature labour at nineteen weeks. She was admitted to hospital and became desperately ill. One of the foetuses were also struggling to breathe. Her doctor refused to abort because "he was a conscientious objector to abortion". She contracted an infection.

But God's Will...

[The Free Joy State]

It gets worse.

A woman in Ireland -- with cancer (link's behind a paywall) -- was denied a termination, despite medical advice, because her life was "not in immediate danger)

In Italy, another woman -- pregnant with twins -- began premature labour at nineteen weeks. She was admitted to hospital and became desperately ill. One of the foetuses were also struggling to breathe. Her doctor refused to abort because "he was a conscientious objector to abortion". She contracted an infection.

But God's Will...

People who think God wills women to needlessly suffer and die when they could be easily treated might want to re-evaluate their interpretation.

[The South Falls]

My man, did you read what Joy posted? There are people who, in Ireland, (before the referenda) that had pregnancies where the fetus couldn't have gone to term, and c-section wasn't possible. The lady died of sepsis seven days later.

It gets worse.

A woman in Ireland -- with cancer (link's behind a paywall) -- was denied a termination, despite medical advice, because her life was "not in immediate danger"). She travelled to Britain, and did live, but it used to be a regular occurrence in Ireland apparently.

In Italy, another woman -- pregnant with twins -- began premature labour at nineteen weeks. She was admitted to hospital and became desperately ill. One of the foetuses were also struggling to breathe. Her doctor refused to abort because "he was a conscientious objector to abortion". She contracted an infection and died.

The fact that you have to have someone on the brink of death before you do something that should be a basic right for a woman is extremely stupid. Oh, and bodily sovereignty has to extend to the woman.