Star Wars: The Force Shall Free Us All

[Bearon Uncensored]

Nope.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vw7pcCj0ORk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_gRC4L6lNoc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yFnMMzqjYGw

Posting three videos that are each two hours long is not really an argument.

They debunk your claim within the first 10 minutes. That's 6 hours of legitimate criticisms for the movie. If you disagree with all of them feel free to comb through the videos and address the points they make one by one.

And remember, if you agree with a single point they make in those 6 hours you've admitted that your previous position is no longer valid.

[Bearon Uncensored]

Hey, only one comment bad enough that I had to address it. You guys exceeded my expectations. Have a cookie.

( :: )

[Jedi Council]

Posting three videos that are each two hours long is not really an argument.

They debunk your claim within the first 10 minutes. That's 6 hours of legitimate criticisms for the movie. If you disagree with them feel free to comb through the videos and address their points.

Again, tossing out six hours of video which, seeing as though I am not a hermit, I do not have time to watch, is not my idea of an argument.

Nor really should you rely on someone else's ideas and critiques. If you want to discuss your issues with TLJ, feel free to offer some up and we can discuss them. But don't act like simply dropping a massive stack of videos and expecting other people to watch them counts as an effective rebuttal to anyone's claims, that is not how debate works.

[Bearon Uncensored]

They debunk your claim within the first 10 minutes. That's 6 hours of legitimate criticisms for the movie. If you disagree with them feel free to comb through the videos and address their points.

Again, tossing out six hours of video which, seeing as though I am not a hermit, I do not have time to watch, is not my idea of an argument.

Nor really should you rely on someone else's ideas and critiques. If you want to discuss your issues with TLJ, feel free to offer some up and we can discuss them. But don't act like simply dropping a massive stack of videos and expecting other people to watch them counts as an effective rebuttal to anyone's claims, that is not how debate works.

Having watched the videos myself, I tend to agree with most of what he has to say. I don't see what the problem is with presenting evidence made by another person to debate a point, but out of interest of actually having a discussion, would you like me to post my own initial thoughts I had upon exiting the theaters?

[Jedi Council]

Again, tossing out six hours of video which, seeing as though I am not a hermit, I do not have time to watch, is not my idea of an argument.

Nor really should you rely on someone else's ideas and critiques. If you want to discuss your issues with TLJ, feel free to offer some up and we can discuss them. But don't act like simply dropping a massive stack of videos and expecting other people to watch them counts as an effective rebuttal to anyone's claims, that is not how debate works.

Having watched the videos myself, I tend to agree with most of what he has to say. I don't see what the problem with presenting evidence made by another person to debate a point is, but out of interest of actually having a discussion, would you like me to post my own initial thoughts I had upon exiting the theaters?

Quite so, I would be interested to hear what you think.

[Bearon Uncensored]

1. Dialogue with actual substance substituted for oneliners in an attempt to get cheap laughs from the audience.

Seriously, there's a way to be funny without sacrificing substance. Take Luke and Han's conversation about the Falcon:

Luke: What a piece of junk!

Han: She'll make point five past lightspeed. She may not look like much but she's got it where it counts, kid.

The exchange is funny but it doesn't feel forced because you can easily imagine a real life scenario like the one the scene portrays where someone is hassling a guy about their old junker and the guy gets defensive about it because they've had it for a lot of years and put a lot of work into. Compare that to Rey's deadpan delivery of lines like:

"I've seen your schedule. You're not busy."

It's not natural. It's a comment made solely to evoke laughter from the audience and it stands out in comparison to the OT's more natural dialogue as a result.

2. Inconsistencies created simply to give the audience fanservice ( Yoda summoning lightning/SJW general destroying a fleet with a hyperdrive jump ).

3. The villains of the story completely neutered as valid threats or characters we can take seriously ( Snoke dressing down Kylo and Hux having "yo mama" jokes told to him and being thrown around by Kylo and Snoke ).

Compare Tarkin in ANH with Hux in TLJ. Tarkin is established as competent and in command with his first scene ending in the destruction of a planet and him being shown to possess authority over even the likes of Vader whereas Hux can't even deal with a single rebel fighter with a fleet of Star Destroyer's at his back.

4. Carrying out character assassination on one of the most beloved characters in the franchise.

The same guy who offered mercy to genocidal maniacs steeped in the Darkside considers killing his nephew who's safety his sister and best friend entrusted him with? That might've flown if they'd released literally any material to indicate such a drastic shift in mindset, as it is it's just jarring.

5. Throwing in useless animal sidekicks that are only there to make you laugh but fail at doing even that. At least the ewok's had a purpose.

6. Wasting the first half of the movie on watching Luke spearfish and aliens play the slots and then having a hundred major events occur one after in the latter half giving the audience little to no time to process what was happening and what these events meant for the story. In other words, god awful pacing.

7. Holdo being made to act like a vindictive/idiotic commander simply to allow for the Canto Bight plot line which ultimately ended up being utterly irrelevant to the plot.

8. Rose forcing Finn to kiss her and keeping him from sacrificing himself at the end of the movie because "he shouldn't fight out of hate" but rather "sacrifice for love" despite Holdo doing EXACTLY what Finn attempted to do 10 minutes earlier. Not only do her feelings for Finn come out of left field but she actively contradicts her former position and would have potentially caused the deaths of thousands simply because what Finn was going to do personally offended her/went against her morales.

9. Legitimately copied dialogue from ESB and RotJ line for line replacing the names of certain characters.

[Bearon Uncensored]

The above is what I posted on YouTube videos reviewing TLJ pretty much the day after it came out. I obviously have far more critiques of the movie NOW but these were my initial thoughts at the time.

[Salus Maior]

To be honest, I've just chosen to enjoy the new movies. It's pointless to get bitter about the missteps or whatever, because we're not going to get another episode 7 or 8, it is what it is.

But the thing is, that's not limited to the Sequels. There are many things I dislike far more in the Prequels (midichlorians? Killing off Jango early? Wasting a Sith Lord Chistopher Lee? THAT ACTING?) and there are some things I think could have been better in the OT even (bloody Ewoks wrecking the 501st?). But, again, it's pointless to get your panties in a twist over it. We're not going to get rewrites or reshoots. We get what we get, so we might as well focus on the things we enjoy about these movies rather than what could have been.

[Bearon Uncensored]

Honestly, the only material in new canon I truly enjoy is the stuff about the Empire and how it functions and is structured. I.E. Thrawn, Lost Stars, Catalyst ( the Rogue One prequel ).

Out of those, the Thrawn COMIC is the only work I can say I think is TRULY great.

It's just disappointing tbh. The worst part is when people try to say that the complaints people have aren't valid. That's the thing that truly gets on my nerves. You can like it if you want, but don't try to invalidate the opinions of those who disagree with you. We get enough of that from the people running Star Wars.

[Salus Maior]

1. Compare that to Rey's deadpan delivery of lines like:

"I've seen your schedule. You're not busy."

It's not natural. It's a comment made solely to evoke laughter from the audience and it stands out in comparison to the OT's more natural dialogue as a result.


2. Carrying out character assassination on one of the most beloved characters in the franchise.

The same guy who offered mercy to genocidal maniacs steeped in the Darkside considers killing his nephew who's safety his sister and best friend entrusted him with? That might've flown if they'd released literally any material to indicate such a drastic shift in mindset, as it is it's just jarring.

3. Throwing in useless animal sidekicks that are only there to make you laugh but fail at doing even that. At least the ewok's had a purpose.


Here's the problem that people have with you, Bearon. You're not wrong that there are valid things to criticize in these movies (well, all of them), what's stupid is what you choose to criticize.

1. That's about the least problematic funny line in the movie. I don't even see how it's unnatural, I've seen plenty of people react that way to people who are hesitant to do things, like go out for instance. You might have had a point with the, say, line where Rey tells Luke she's from Jakku and Luke is like "Oh that IS a backwater". That doesn't make sense because Luke is ALSO from a huge backwater sandy planet. That scene could have been a place where Rey and Luke could have connected, both being backwater figures drawn to significance by the Force, but played off for laughs.

2. Also note that Luke, despite claiming to want to redeem Vader, almost kills him and chops off his hand in a dark rage before realizing his mistake and steps back into the light. Likewise, Luke, having a glimpse of the future of what Ben would do, has a momentary reaction of fear and anger before it passes over him and he realizes his mistake and steps back from the dark side. It's really not that bad, and I definitely believe people are blowing that up far more than it deserves.

3. The penguin guys BARELY have any scenes. They're not obtrusive at all, really, they're only in the periphery of Chewbacca's scenes. Ewoks, although apparently having a purpose according to you, take up a huge chunk of the movie and do many absurd things.

[Platypus Bureaucracy]

That line about the Falcon is meant to be funny? Either I have no sense of humour, or you are easily amused.

[New haven america]

Honestly, the only material in new canon I truly enjoy is the stuff about the Empire and how it functions and is structured. I.E. Thrawn, Lost Stars, Catalyst ( the Rogue One prequel ).

Out of those, the Thrawn COMIC is the only work I can say I think is TRULY great.

It's just disappointing tbh. The worst part is when people try to say that the complaints people have aren't valid. That's the thing that truly gets on my nerves. You can like it if you want, but don't try to invalidate the opinions of those who disagree with you. We get enough of that from the people running Star Wars.

Hah, try being part of the ST fandom.

You know nothing.

[Bearon Uncensored]

1. Compare that to Rey's deadpan delivery of lines like:

"I've seen your schedule. You're not busy."

It's not natural. It's a comment made solely to evoke laughter from the audience and it stands out in comparison to the OT's more natural dialogue as a result.


2. Carrying out character assassination on one of the most beloved characters in the franchise.

The same guy who offered mercy to genocidal maniacs steeped in the Darkside considers killing his nephew who's safety his sister and best friend entrusted him with? That might've flown if they'd released literally any material to indicate such a drastic shift in mindset, as it is it's just jarring.

3. Throwing in useless animal sidekicks that are only there to make you laugh but fail at doing even that. At least the ewok's had a purpose.


Here's the problem that people have with you, Bearon. You're not wrong that there are valid things to criticize in these movies (well, all of them), what's stupid is what you choose to criticize.

1. That's about the least problematic funny line in the movie. I don't even see how it's unnatural, I've seen plenty of people react that way to people who are hesitant to do things, like go out for instance. You might have had a point with the, say, line where Rey tells Luke she's from Jakku and Luke is like "Oh that IS a backwater". That doesn't make sense because Luke is ALSO from a huge backwater sandy planet. That scene could have been a place where Rey and Luke could have connected, both being backwater figures drawn to significance by the Force, but played off for laughs.

2. Also note that Luke, despite claiming to want to redeem Vader, almost kills him and chops off his hand in a dark rage before realizing his mistake and steps back into the light. Likewise, Luke, having a glimpse of the future of what Ben would do, has a momentary reaction of fear and anger before it passes over him and he realizes his mistake and steps back from the dark side. It's really not that bad, and I definitely believe people are blowing that up far more than it deserves.

3. The penguin guys BARELY have any scenes. They're not obtrusive at all, really, they're only in the periphery of Chewbacca's scenes. Ewoks, although apparently having a purpose according to you, take up a huge chunk of the movie and do many absurd things.

I'm sorry you feel that way.

1. There are more problematic lines, yes. It was an example I chose maybe a day after seeing the movie. As I mentioned to Jedi Council, the post I made was directly copy and pasted from comment I made on a video reviewing the movie pretty much the day after I saw it. I.E. I have numerous other criticisms I find to be far more relevant then the ones that were made in that post, but in an effort to be fair, I was trying to show JC my honest initial impression of the movie. You have no idea how much I'd appreciate it if you and the other users in this thread started actually fully reading the conversations you jump into.

2. Because he was goaded into it. There's a difference between flying off the handle when you're enraged and coldly calculating the murder of an innocent. He was intent on committing the act otherwise he wouldn't have stepped into Ben's tent.

3. They're pointless and are only there to sell toys, again though, it's not my main issue with the movie. Just one of the issues that I listed off the top of my head in a video from a few years ago. Something you'd know if you'd actually read the entire conversation before jumping into it. The ewoks honestly do very few things I find to be "ridiculous" for a primitive culture outside of looking cute and cuddly. And I hope the bit where you were attempting to sound skeptical about whether or not the ewok's had a purpose was some sort of sarcastic humor considering their involvement was what lead to the downfall of the Empire.

[Bearon Uncensored]

Honestly, the only material in new canon I truly enjoy is the stuff about the Empire and how it functions and is structured. I.E. Thrawn, Lost Stars, Catalyst ( the Rogue One prequel ).

Out of those, the Thrawn COMIC is the only work I can say I think is TRULY great.

It's just disappointing tbh. The worst part is when people try to say that the complaints people have aren't valid. That's the thing that truly gets on my nerves. You can like it if you want, but don't try to invalidate the opinions of those who disagree with you. We get enough of that from the people running Star Wars.

Hah, try being part of the ST fandom.

You know nothing.

*Shrug*

I like a lot of stuff that's bad. The difference is I KNOW it's bad so I don't try to defend it or go down the throat's of people who don't like it.

[Herador]

That line about the Falcon is meant to be funny? Either I have no sense of humour, or you are easily amused.

It's setting up that the Falcon saves them later on in the movie by helping them get away from the Death Star the first time and saving the day at the end.

It wasn't a joke, it was lampshade hanging and not just for the ship but also for Han's character.

[Bearon Uncensored]

That line about the Falcon is meant to be funny? Either I have no sense of humour, or you are easily amused.

Given your past comments I'm willing to bet that it's the former, though I never claimed it was meant to be funny. Just that I personally found it to be.

[Vassenor]

Are we still hiding behind the BUT THE SJWS horsecrap?

[Kramanica]

Are we still hiding behind the BUT THE SJWS horsecrap?

Did Solo not have a feminist robot?

[Bearon Uncensored]

Are we still hiding behind the BUT THE SJWS horsecrap?

That's kinda outta left field.

[Vassenor]

Are we still hiding behind the BUT THE SJWS horsecrap?

That's kinda out left field.

When you're referring to Holdo almost exclusively as "SJW General", not really.

[The first Galactic Republic]

Are we still hiding behind the BUT THE SJWS horsecrap?

Did Solo not have a feminist robot?

What makes her a feminist robot? Her voice is female and she cares about something?

I did kind of get a rad fem feel from her, but only in how she voices her concerns. Otherwise she’s complaining about a fictional problem, and droids do have it pretty bad in Star Wars.

[Bearon Uncensored]

That's kinda out left field.

When you're referring to Holdo almost exclusively as "SJW General", not really.

Don't think anyone's called her that for a while now. The post with that phrase is a copy/paste of a comment I made a few years back as I've stated numerous times now. Unfortunately, people on this thread don't bother to actually read a conversation fully and discover the context before jumping into it.

[Kramanica]

Did Solo not have a feminist robot?

What makes her a feminist robot? Her voice is female and she cares about something?

I did kind of get a rad fem feel from her, but only in how she voices her concerns. Otherwise she’s complaining about a fictional problem, and droids do have it pretty bad in Star Wars.

I did kind of get a rad fem feel from her, but only in how she voices her concerns. Otherwise she’s complaining about a fictional problem, and droids do have it pretty bad in Star Wars.

Otherwise she's complaining

There you go.

She's loud, abrasive, complaines about every-fucking-thing and assumes every man is sexually attracted to her and also bloviates about oppression and how her true calling is to liberate robots who didn't ask to be liberated.

Feminist robot.

[Northern Davincia]

To be honest, I've just chosen to enjoy the new movies. It's pointless to get bitter about the missteps or whatever, because we're not going to get another episode 7 or 8, it is what it is.

But the thing is, that's not limited to the Sequels. There are many things I dislike far more in the Prequels (midichlorians? Killing off Jango early? Wasting a Sith Lord Chistopher Lee? THAT ACTING?) and there are some things I think could have been better in the OT even (bloody Ewoks wrecking the 501st?). But, again, it's pointless to get your panties in a twist over it. We're not going to get rewrites or reshoots. We get what we get, so we might as well focus on the things we enjoy about these movies rather than what could have been.

At the time of RoTJ's release, nobody knew those Stormtroopers were 501st. In the context of the film, they're just average soldiers.

[Ism]

To be honest, I've just chosen to enjoy the new movies. It's pointless to get bitter about the missteps or whatever, because we're not going to get another episode 7 or 8, it is what it is.

But the thing is, that's not limited to the Sequels. There are many things I dislike far more in the Prequels (midichlorians? Killing off Jango early? Wasting a Sith Lord Chistopher Lee? THAT ACTING?) and there are some things I think could have been better in the OT even (bloody Ewoks wrecking the 501st?). But, again, it's pointless to get your panties in a twist over it. We're not going to get rewrites or reshoots. We get what we get, so we might as well focus on the things we enjoy about these movies rather than what could have been.

At the time of RoTJ's release, nobody knew those Stormtroopers were 501st. In the context of the film, they're just average soldiers.

Actually, the Emperor does refer to them as a legion of his best troops.