Hillary Clinton says China's power grab 'a new global battle

[Oil exporting People]

And yet, it resulted in the modern American State. The United States was built on consecutive Native genocides. Is the United States evil?

The fact it’s built on genocide is a pretty hard stain

Except it's not and never was.

[Bienenhalde]

Yes, I would say that the Jackson administration's genocide against Native Americans was definitely evil.

And yet, it resulted in the modern American State. The United States was built on consecutive Native genocides. Is the United States evil?

No, Jackson was the 7th president. We already had a constitution and an independent nation before Andrew Jackson became president.

[Olerand]

And yet, it resulted in the modern American State. The United States was built on consecutive Native genocides. Is the United States evil?

No, Jackson was the 7th president. We already had a constitution and an independent nation before Andrew Jackson became president.

That was your only genocide of the Natives? None before, none after? The smallpox blankets were truly a gift and a sign of a desire of a benevolent relationship?

[The East Marches II]

Ah the bankruptcy of France. No wonder you took to Vichy with such a gusto. If the good and evil don't matter, why are you a Bolshevik? You should simply strive to be the money making one. After all, you take the monsterous ideas of China watered down so well in Europe.

Like Mitterand it seems, you never gave up the old Vichy sympathies.

Like at least 1 in 2 of the posts we exchange, what are you talking about?

And good, you got the Mitterrand reference at least.

If right and wrong don't matter in a state, why do you believe in anything? You sound just like the New York Times liberals you so hate. Why be a red? You're a clever lad, you'd make a fine exploiter of the proletariat.

[Luminesa]

I wasn't even referring to Algeria but your sensitivity says that you know some guilt there too! Tell me, are your communist and socialist parties mere peddlers of Algerian nationalist and Islamist propaganda too? Surely your own beloved party couldn't be wrong?

The Communists were, the Socialists sent in the army. And what were you referring to then?

EDIT: Actually to be fair, the Islamists weren't really a thing then, though the seeds were present.

Also, like Mitterrand, I relinquish all of my party's past misdeeds.

At any rate, it is pathetic to speak of the automated repression state as anything but evil. I understand suppression of freedom and a disdain for rule of law are European values these days but surely using prisoners as human organ vats is evil? Or the resumption of slavery?

It is infantile to look at matters of State as "evil" or "good". The American genocide(s) of the Natives is good or evil?

I mean, if it’s that easy to relinquish the party’s misdeeds, by your logic, what is keeping Marches from doing the same? You can’t just say, “Oh your country and your party is literal Satan and has done everything wrong, and you’re bad for believing them, but I won’t claim anything my party has done ever,” without having it turned on you.

[Oil exporting People]

No, Jackson was the 7th president. We already had a constitution and an independent nation before Andrew Jackson became president.

That was your only genocide of the Natives? None before, none after? The smallpox blankets were truly a gift and a sign of a desire of a benevolent relationship?

There has never been one in American history.

[Olerand]

Like at least 1 in 2 of the posts we exchange, what are you talking about?

And good, you got the Mitterrand reference at least.

If right and wrong don't matter in a state, why do you believe in anything? You sound just like the New York Times liberals you so hate. Why be a red? You're a clever lad, you'd make a fine exploiter of the proletariat.

No, I know actions that a State can take are evil. Like I already said, genocide is evil. But to take that on and say, ipso facto, America is evil, is infantile.

[Bienenhalde]

Well, one should also suppose that a nation that has undertaken genocide shouldn't be labeling others evil either but... The world is bizarre like that, non?

So should Angela Merkel not condemn the actions of repressive regimes because of what Hitler did before she was born? Now that is just ridiculous.

[Internationalist Bastard]

Ah the bankruptcy of France. No wonder you took to Vichy with such a gusto. If the good and evil don't matter, why are you a Bolshevik? You should simply strive to be the money making one. After all, you take the monsterous ideas of China watered down so well in Europe.

Like Mitterand it seems, you never gave up the old Vichy sympathies.

Like at least 1 in 2 of the posts we exchange, what are you talking about?

And good, you got the Mitterrand reference at least.

The fact it’s built on genocide is a pretty hard stain

So is America evil?

Ah yes
Clearly the Nazis were lawful neutral

So is Germany evil?

Modern day? No, all those actions have since been disavowed, reversed, and repaired to the extent that genocide can be, which is admittedly little
But if a government currently is carrying out those actions, or refuses to recognize those as wrong, then they are evil

[The East Marches II]

They can't. We learned that when we employed Chinese American born people on the first F-35 project. They flipped and gave the game away. They shouldn't be employed in any critical national security sector.

And people wonder why we’re re terrified all the time

Yes, he is objectively a security threat if working in defense. Should I dress it up to sound nice so you feel better?

[Internationalist Bastard]

The fact it’s built on genocide is a pretty hard stain

Except it's not and never was.

You’re right
It’s built on ethnic cleansing

[Olerand]

The Communists were, the Socialists sent in the army. And what were you referring to then?

EDIT: Actually to be fair, the Islamists weren't really a thing then, though the seeds were present.

Also, like Mitterrand, I relinquish all of my party's past misdeeds.


It is infantile to look at matters of State as "evil" or "good". The American genocide(s) of the Natives is good or evil?

I mean, if it’s that easy to relinquish the party’s misdeeds, by your logic, what is keeping Marches from doing the same? You can’t just say, “Oh your country and your party is literal Satan and has done everything wrong, and you’re bad for believing them, but I won’t claim anything my party has done ever,” without having it turned on you.

I was kidding. I do not actually relinquish the PS' historical mistakes.

That was your only genocide of the Natives? None before, none after? The smallpox blankets were truly a gift and a sign of a desire of a benevolent relationship?

There has never been one in American history.

So the forced displacement, the slaughters, the smallpox blankets were a sign of a benevolent relationship? The intentional decreasing of the numbers of the Natives was... moving around furniture?

[Bienenhalde]

No, Jackson was the 7th president. We already had a constitution and an independent nation before Andrew Jackson became president.

That was your only genocide of the Natives? None before, none after? The smallpox blankets were truly a gift and a sign of a desire of a benevolent relationship?

That was an isolated incident by a rogue army officer, not a deliberate policy from the top level of government.

[Internationalist Bastard]

And people wonder why we’re re terrified all the time

Yes, he is objectively a security threat if working in defense. Should I dress it up to sound nice so you feel better?

I’d prefer you not pursuing a literally racist policy

[The East Marches II]

If right and wrong don't matter in a state, why do you believe in anything? You sound just like the New York Times liberals you so hate. Why be a red? You're a clever lad, you'd make a fine exploiter of the proletariat.

No, I know actions that a State can take are evil. Like I already said, genocide is evil. But to take that on and say, ipso facto, America is evil, is infantile.

Then old Hans wasn't evil, just the actions of the Nazi government. Not of course the government itself. It's Vichy thinking. I wish I could say I'm surprised but France does like the Chinese ideas of suppression of freedom and authoritarianism. It was foolish to suppose that the nation that gave us Sarte would have any problem with slavery or killing prisoners for organs.

[Olerand]

Well, one should also suppose that a nation that has undertaken genocide shouldn't be labeling others evil either but... The world is bizarre like that, non?

So should Angela Merkel not condemn the actions of repressive regimes because of what Hitler did before she was born? Now that is just ridiculous.

That post was intended to convey irony.

Like at least 1 in 2 of the posts we exchange, what are you talking about?

And good, you got the Mitterrand reference at least.


So is America evil?


So is Germany evil?

Modern day? No, all those actions have since been disavowed, reversed, and repaired to the extent that genocide can be, which is admittedly little
But if a government currently is carrying out those actions, or refuses to recognize those as wrong, then they are evil

So a country must go through what Germany has to relinquish the label? So, Austria, which never took on the same zeal as Germany in de-Nazification, is it evil? What of Russia, who has never decried Stalin's action? Spain and its empire? Any European country that was involved in slavery and never recognized it as a crime against humanity and their part in it (as France has)?

[Kowani]

Ah the bankruptcy of France. No wonder you took to Vichy with such a gusto. If the good and evil don't matter, why are you a Bolshevik? You should simply strive to be the money making one. After all, you take the monsterous ideas of China watered down so well in Europe.

Like Mitterand it seems, you never gave up the old Vichy sympathies.

Like at least 1 in 2 of the posts we exchange, what are you talking about?

And good, you got the Mitterrand reference at least.

The fact it’s built on genocide is a pretty hard stain

So is America evil?

Ah yes
Clearly the Nazis were lawful neutral

So is Germany evil?

Nazi Germany was evil, yes. Modern day Germany, no. Just because a State was built on past atrocities does not automatically translate into the modern day version of that State is evil. Obviously, if we go far back enough, almost every state committed something we’d consider horrible today, but we don’t consider all the shit Medieval Europe pulled to be indications of it’s evilness because the values have, at a government level, changed. Nobody’s launching any more Crusades. At the same time, China is still committing these sorts of acts as government policy, and that is why it’s considered evil.

[Oil exporting People]

So the forced displacement

No.

the slaughters

No.

the smallpox blankets

Cite who did that.

The intentional decreasing of the numbers of the Natives was... moving around furniture?

Yes, and looking at the genetics data will reveal that.

[Luminesa]

I mean, if it’s that easy to relinquish the party’s misdeeds, by your logic, what is keeping Marches from doing the same? You can’t just say, “Oh your country and your party is literal Satan and has done everything wrong, and you’re bad for believing them, but I won’t claim anything my party has done ever,” without having it turned on you.

I was kidding. I do not actually relinquish the PS' historical mistakes.

There has never been one in American history.

So the forced displacement, the slaughters, the smallpox blankets were a sign of a benevolent relationship? The intentional decreasing of the numbers of the Natives was... moving around furniture?

Oop! Okay. Just checking.

The country was originally founded by people looking to trade and to bring money back to their respective empires. Mercantilism! The conflicts with the Natives were awful, and are shameful to consider. but genocide was not the reason the settlers came to America.

[Oil exporting People]

You’re right
It’s built on ethnic cleansing

Nope, try harder.

[Internationalist Bastard]

So should Angela Merkel not condemn the actions of repressive regimes because of what Hitler did before she was born? Now that is just ridiculous.

That post was intended to convey irony.

Modern day? No, all those actions have since been disavowed, reversed, and repaired to the extent that genocide can be, which is admittedly little
But if a government currently is carrying out those actions, or refuses to recognize those as wrong, then they are evil

So a country must go through what Germany has to relinquish the label? So, Austria, which never took on the same zeal as Germany in de-Nazification, is it evil? What of Russia, who has never decried Stalin's action? Spain and its empire? Any European country that was involved in slavery and never recognized it as a crime against humanity and their part in it (as France has)?

Im not sure about those countries
I’d assume all but Russia have disavowed what they’ve done
If not, yes, they are denying that they built on an evil act

[Oil exporting People]

Yes, he is objectively a security threat if working in defense. Should I dress it up to sound nice so you feel better?

I’d prefer you not pursuing a literally racist policy

Are you deliberately dense or just this painfully naive?

[Internationalist Bastard]

You’re right
It’s built on ethnic cleansing

Nope, try harder.

It was built on pest removal?

[Kramanica]

Except it's not and never was.

You’re right
It’s built on ethnic cleansing

Nonsense. Attempts were made to assimilate Native Americans into American society but many rejected that.

Fun fact: the last Confederate General to surrender during the Civil War was a Native American named Stand Watie.

[Olerand]

That was your only genocide of the Natives? None before, none after? The smallpox blankets were truly a gift and a sign of a desire of a benevolent relationship?

That was an isolated incident by a rogue army officer, not a deliberate policy from the top level of government.

So the forced relocations, the slaughters, the active measures to reduce their numbers in a variety of ways, what were those?

No, I know actions that a State can take are evil. Like I already said, genocide is evil. But to take that on and say, ipso facto, America is evil, is infantile.

Then old Hans wasn't evil, just the actions of the Nazi government. Not of course the government itself. It's Vichy thinking. I wish I could say I'm surprised but France does like the Chinese ideas of suppression of freedom and authoritarianism. It was foolish to suppose that the nation that gave us Sarte would have any problem with slavery or killing prisoners for organs.

The government, in how I use the term, was evil. A government can be fully evil, a government of Nazis can be evil. That does not make Germany evil. And Vichy was an occupational regime, and you know that.

As to slavery, we are actually the only Western country to have recognized it as a crime against humanity and our part in it. I also, will repeat again, actions undertaken by the State can be evil, and governments can be evil. That does not mean ipso facto, that Austria is evil.