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Trump MAGAThread XII: A Tarriff-ic Thread!

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Tobleste
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Postby Tobleste » Mon May 28, 2018 5:31 pm

West Leas Oros wrote:So, I assume it’s just me, but I’m actually fckin sick of people being like “trump is bigot and evil” because, to me, I think that his corruption and greed is much more damning than him being mean and offensive.


True but the first two make him a worse person. Also he makes some small effort to hide the second two. When it comes to his bigotry, he's loud and proud.
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Uxupox
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Postby Uxupox » Mon May 28, 2018 5:31 pm

Geneviev wrote:
Valrifell wrote:
They just see the world in a fundamentally different way than those that didn't. Such is the psychology of partisanship and tribal attitudes.

Not at all.


That's unlike what media propagates. You see these types of people on any type of political or social spectrum which technically be considered the extreme vocal minority making their efforts known. The media rapidly conflates this and because of this they are mistaken to be the actual voice of their supposed "side".
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Valrifell
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Postby Valrifell » Mon May 28, 2018 5:37 pm

Uxupox wrote:
Geneviev wrote:Not at all.


That's unlike what media propagates. You see these types of people on any type of political or social spectrum which technically be considered the extreme vocal minority making their efforts known. The media rapidly conflates this and because of this they are mistaken to be the actual voice of their supposed "side".


It's because loud people who stand for something with vigor and passion tend to get news coverage. Consequently, people on the fringes of politics tend to be more passionate about their beliefs.
I like to imagine Sisyphus happy
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Geneviev
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Postby Geneviev » Mon May 28, 2018 5:39 pm

Uxupox wrote:
Geneviev wrote:Not at all.


That's unlike what media propagates. You see these types of people on any type of political or social spectrum which technically be considered the extreme vocal minority making their efforts known. The media rapidly conflates this and because of this they are mistaken to be the actual voice of their supposed "side".

In the end, most every news source is looking to get money. That means they have to be interesting. So they show the more insane people from each side.
I'm not evangelical anymore.
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Cannot think of a name
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Postby Cannot think of a name » Mon May 28, 2018 8:26 pm

West Leas Oros wrote:So, I assume it’s just me,

Nah, the internet is full of people who hipster up their opinions.
but I’m actually fckin sick of people being like “trump is bigot and evil” because, to me, I think that his corruption and greed is much more damning than him being mean and offensive.

I’m capable of disliking people for a number of reasons.
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The Flutterlands
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Postby The Flutterlands » Tue May 29, 2018 1:29 am

Tobleste wrote:
Geneviev wrote:Probably his nurses would.

No, not at all. I don't consider myself a year ago stupid. Most people who support President Trump are just the same as people who don't.


We'll agree to disagree. Anyone who supports that man as president is either incredibly uninformed, unintelligent or immoral. No one can support someone like that without having a fundamentally different sense of right and wrong to what is considered normal in a developed society. That will probably be seen as bigoted by trump supporters but that doesn't make it untrue and I'm happy to be intolerant of intolerance.

You can say that about the entire Republican Party at least on a national level and in a number of states. No one can support a party like that without having a fundamentally different sense of right and wrong to what is considered normal in a developed society either. I myself am sick of the tolerating the intolerable as well.
Last edited by The Flutterlands on Tue May 29, 2018 8:59 am, edited 4 times in total.
Call me Flutters - Minister of Justice of the Federation of the Shy One - Fluttershy is best pony
Who I side with - My Discord - OC Pony - Pitch Black
White, American, Male, Asexual, Deist, Autistic with Aspergers and ADHD, Civil Liberatarian and Democratic Socialist, Brony and Whovian. I have Neurofibromatosis Type 1. I'm also INTJ
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Pros: Choice, Democracy, Liberatarianism, Populism, Secularism, Equal Rights, Contraceptives, Immigration, Environmentalism, Free Speech and Egalitarianism
Con: Communism, Fascism, SJW 'Feminism', Terrorism, Homophobia, Transphobia, Xenophobia, Death Penalty, Totalitarianism, Neoliberalism, and War.
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Valrifell
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Left-Leaning College State

Postby Valrifell » Tue May 29, 2018 4:02 am

Cannot think of a name wrote:
West Leas Oros wrote:So, I assume it’s just me,

Nah, the internet is full of people who hipster up their opinions.
but I’m actually fckin sick of people being like “trump is bigot and evil” because, to me, I think that his corruption and greed is much more damning than him being mean and offensive.

I’m capable of disliking people for a number of reasons.


Get out of here with your non-binary worldview! There is no place for nuance in politics.
I like to imagine Sisyphus happy
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West Leas Oros
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Founded: Jul 17, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby West Leas Oros » Tue May 29, 2018 5:09 am

Cannot think of a name wrote:
West Leas Oros wrote:So, I assume it’s just me,

Nah, the internet is full of people who hipster up their opinions.
but I’m actually fckin sick of people being like “trump is bigot and evil” because, to me, I think that his corruption and greed is much more damning than him being mean and offensive.

I’m capable of disliking people for a number of reasons.

1. No need to be an ass about it
2. So am I, but I think the latter is more important to me
Just your friendly neighborhood democratic socialist revisionist traitor.
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Brothers and sisters are natural enemies, like fascists and communists. Or libertarians and communists. Or social democrats and communists. Or communists and other communists! Damn commies, they ruined communism!"

The Xenopolis Confederation wrote:Oros, no. Please. You were the chosen one. You were meant to debunk the tankies, not join them. Bring balance to the left, not leave it in darkness.

WLO Public News: Protest turns violent as Orosian Anarchists burn building. 2 found dead, 8 injured. Investigation continues.

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West Leas Oros
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Postby West Leas Oros » Tue May 29, 2018 5:11 am

Tobleste wrote:
West Leas Oros wrote:So, I assume it’s just me, but I’m actually fckin sick of people being like “trump is bigot and evil” because, to me, I think that his corruption and greed is much more damning than him being mean and offensive.


True but the first two make him a worse person. Also he makes some small effort to hide the second two. When it comes to his bigotry, he's loud and proud.

1. The latter two seem to me as more worse than the former to me
2. He openly said he was a greedy person. Pretty loud about that too.
Just your friendly neighborhood democratic socialist revisionist traitor.
PMT nation. Economically to the left of Karl Marx. Social justice is a bourgeois plot.
Brothers and sisters are natural enemies, like fascists and communists. Or libertarians and communists. Or social democrats and communists. Or communists and other communists! Damn commies, they ruined communism!"

The Xenopolis Confederation wrote:Oros, no. Please. You were the chosen one. You were meant to debunk the tankies, not join them. Bring balance to the left, not leave it in darkness.

WLO Public News: Protest turns violent as Orosian Anarchists burn building. 2 found dead, 8 injured. Investigation continues.

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Salandriagado
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Postby Salandriagado » Tue May 29, 2018 7:54 am

West Leas Oros wrote:
Salandriagado wrote:
No it isn't. Not in the fucking slightest. The specific claim made is that there was an offence committed that the FBI should have investigated. That claim was a lie, and my post gives precisely the reason that it's a lie. It's exactly the opposite of a cop-out: it's a direct refutation of the central point.

Also, the whole idea of having a primary is silly and only serves to preserve the shitshow that is two-party politics: the parties should just choose their damned candidates and get on with the real elections.

Wouldn’t abolishing primaries protect the two party system more than keeping them would?


Nope: with the current system, if your don't agree with either of the main parties, the most effective way to get into power is to join one of them and attempt to win a primary. Without the primary system, the most effective way to get into power would be to start a third party.
Cosara wrote:
Anachronous Rex wrote:Good thing most a majority of people aren't so small-minded, and frightened of other's sexuality.

Over 40% (including me), are, so I fixed the post for accuracy.

Vilatania wrote:
Salandriagado wrote:
Notice that the link is to the notes from a university course on probability. You clearly have nothing beyond the most absurdly simplistic understanding of the subject.
By choosing 1, you no longer have 0 probability of choosing 1. End of subject.

(read up the quote stack)

Deal. £3000 do?[/quote]

Of course.[/quote]

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Salandriagado
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Postby Salandriagado » Tue May 29, 2018 7:54 am

Fartsniffage wrote:
Salandriagado wrote:
No it isn't. Not in the fucking slightest. The specific claim made is that there was an offence committed that the FBI should have investigated. That claim was a lie, and my post gives precisely the reason that it's a lie. It's exactly the opposite of a cop-out: it's a direct refutation of the central point.

Also, the whole idea of having a primary is silly and only serves to preserve the shitshow that is two-party politics: the parties should just choose their damned candidates and get on with the real elections.


You think Obama was a bad choice?


Oh look, a non-sequitur.
Cosara wrote:
Anachronous Rex wrote:Good thing most a majority of people aren't so small-minded, and frightened of other's sexuality.

Over 40% (including me), are, so I fixed the post for accuracy.

Vilatania wrote:
Salandriagado wrote:
Notice that the link is to the notes from a university course on probability. You clearly have nothing beyond the most absurdly simplistic understanding of the subject.
By choosing 1, you no longer have 0 probability of choosing 1. End of subject.

(read up the quote stack)

Deal. £3000 do?[/quote]

Of course.[/quote]

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Hittanryan
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Hittanryan » Tue May 29, 2018 8:05 am

Salandriagado wrote:
West Leas Oros wrote:Wouldn’t abolishing primaries protect the two party system more than keeping them would?


Nope: with the current system, if your don't agree with either of the main parties, the most effective way to get into power is to join one of them and attempt to win a primary. Without the primary system, the most effective way to get into power would be to start a third party.

As long as we have FPTP elections, we will have a two party system. It's inevitable. Third parties will only ever be spoilers. I don't like it, but math is a harsh mistress.
In-character name of the nation is "Adiron," because I like the name better.

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Salandriagado
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Postby Salandriagado » Tue May 29, 2018 8:09 am

Hittanryan wrote:
Salandriagado wrote:
Nope: with the current system, if your don't agree with either of the main parties, the most effective way to get into power is to join one of them and attempt to win a primary. Without the primary system, the most effective way to get into power would be to start a third party.

As long as we have FPTP elections, we will have a two party system. It's inevitable. Third parties will only ever be spoilers. I don't like it, but math is a harsh mistress.


*Looks at Europe*

You were saying?
Cosara wrote:
Anachronous Rex wrote:Good thing most a majority of people aren't so small-minded, and frightened of other's sexuality.

Over 40% (including me), are, so I fixed the post for accuracy.

Vilatania wrote:
Salandriagado wrote:
Notice that the link is to the notes from a university course on probability. You clearly have nothing beyond the most absurdly simplistic understanding of the subject.
By choosing 1, you no longer have 0 probability of choosing 1. End of subject.

(read up the quote stack)

Deal. £3000 do?[/quote]

Of course.[/quote]

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Everhall
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Posts: 4159
Founded: Sep 23, 2014
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Everhall » Tue May 29, 2018 8:19 am

Salandriagado wrote:
West Leas Oros wrote:Wouldn’t abolishing primaries protect the two party system more than keeping them would?


Nope: with the current system, if your don't agree with either of the main parties, the most effective way to get into power is to join one of them and attempt to win a primary. Without the primary system, the most effective way to get into power would be to start a third party.

And yet, before we even had primaries we still had a two party system

+ if you're gonna mention Europe, name the specific country you're talking about.
Last edited by Everhall on Tue May 29, 2018 8:20 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Hittanryan
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Postby Hittanryan » Tue May 29, 2018 8:22 am

Salandriagado wrote:
Hittanryan wrote:As long as we have FPTP elections, we will have a two party system. It's inevitable. Third parties will only ever be spoilers. I don't like it, but math is a harsh mistress.


*Looks at Europe*

You were saying?

...what country in Europe?
In-character name of the nation is "Adiron," because I like the name better.

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Salandriagado
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Left-wing Utopia

Postby Salandriagado » Tue May 29, 2018 8:24 am

Everhall wrote:
Salandriagado wrote:
Nope: with the current system, if your don't agree with either of the main parties, the most effective way to get into power is to join one of them and attempt to win a primary. Without the primary system, the most effective way to get into power would be to start a third party.

And yet, before we even had primaries we still had a two party system

+ if you're gonna mention Europe, name the specific country you're talking about.


Most of them? Let's start with France.
Cosara wrote:
Anachronous Rex wrote:Good thing most a majority of people aren't so small-minded, and frightened of other's sexuality.

Over 40% (including me), are, so I fixed the post for accuracy.

Vilatania wrote:
Salandriagado wrote:
Notice that the link is to the notes from a university course on probability. You clearly have nothing beyond the most absurdly simplistic understanding of the subject.
By choosing 1, you no longer have 0 probability of choosing 1. End of subject.

(read up the quote stack)

Deal. £3000 do?[/quote]

Of course.[/quote]

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Hittanryan
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Postby Hittanryan » Tue May 29, 2018 8:34 am

Salandriagado wrote:
Everhall wrote:And yet, before we even had primaries we still had a two party system

+ if you're gonna mention Europe, name the specific country you're talking about.


Most of them? Let's start with France.

I'm confused. Are you saying that every other electoral system also always results in a two party system? Are you arguing in favor of FPTP? What is your point here?
In-character name of the nation is "Adiron," because I like the name better.

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Salandriagado
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Postby Salandriagado » Tue May 29, 2018 8:39 am

Hittanryan wrote:
Salandriagado wrote:
Most of them? Let's start with France.

I'm confused. Are you saying that every other electoral system also always results in a two party system? Are you arguing in favor of FPTP? What is your point here?


Try reading my posts. Notice that France has an essentially FPTP system, and significantly more than two parties represented in it. Ditto the UK. My point has been explicitly stated already.
Cosara wrote:
Anachronous Rex wrote:Good thing most a majority of people aren't so small-minded, and frightened of other's sexuality.

Over 40% (including me), are, so I fixed the post for accuracy.

Vilatania wrote:
Salandriagado wrote:
Notice that the link is to the notes from a university course on probability. You clearly have nothing beyond the most absurdly simplistic understanding of the subject.
By choosing 1, you no longer have 0 probability of choosing 1. End of subject.

(read up the quote stack)

Deal. £3000 do?[/quote]

Of course.[/quote]

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Petrasylvania
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Postby Petrasylvania » Tue May 29, 2018 8:40 am

Crimes committed by Muslims will be proof of a pan-Islamic plot and Islam's inherent evil. On the other hand, crimes committed by non-Muslims will merely be the acts of mentally ill lone wolves who do not represent their professed belief system at all.
The probability of someone secretly participating in homosexual acts is directly proportional to the frequency and loudness of their publicly professed disapproval and/or disgust for homosexuality.
If Donald Trump accuses an individual of malfeasance without evidence, it is almost a certainty either he or someone associated with him has in fact committed that very same malfeasance to a greater degree.

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Vassenor
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Postby Vassenor » Tue May 29, 2018 8:58 am

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Hittanryan
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Founded: Mar 10, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Hittanryan » Tue May 29, 2018 9:08 am

Salandriagado wrote:
Hittanryan wrote:I'm confused. Are you saying that every other electoral system also always results in a two party system? Are you arguing in favor of FPTP? What is your point here?


Try reading my posts. Notice that France has an essentially FPTP system, and significantly more than two parties represented in it. Ditto the UK. My point has been explicitly stated already.

Apologies, browsing casually on a phone during a break.

When it comes to the legislature, I don't think France's two-round system can really be considered the exact same as the US's single-member district FPTP elections.
In-character name of the nation is "Adiron," because I like the name better.

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Salandriagado
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Founded: Apr 03, 2008
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Salandriagado » Tue May 29, 2018 9:09 am

Hittanryan wrote:
Salandriagado wrote:
Try reading my posts. Notice that France has an essentially FPTP system, and significantly more than two parties represented in it. Ditto the UK. My point has been explicitly stated already.

Apologies, browsing casually on a phone during a break.

When it comes to the legislature, I don't think France's two-round system can really be considered the exact same as the US's single-member district FPTP elections.


No, but it's even more strongly inclined towards a two-party system. If you prefer a pure example, try Scotland.
Cosara wrote:
Anachronous Rex wrote:Good thing most a majority of people aren't so small-minded, and frightened of other's sexuality.

Over 40% (including me), are, so I fixed the post for accuracy.

Vilatania wrote:
Salandriagado wrote:
Notice that the link is to the notes from a university course on probability. You clearly have nothing beyond the most absurdly simplistic understanding of the subject.
By choosing 1, you no longer have 0 probability of choosing 1. End of subject.

(read up the quote stack)

Deal. £3000 do?[/quote]

Of course.[/quote]

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The Flutterlands
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Posts: 15157
Founded: Oct 02, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby The Flutterlands » Tue May 29, 2018 9:16 am

Also, if America had more than two parties, wouldn't they coalesce into factions of regions considering the cultural and political differences?
Call me Flutters - Minister of Justice of the Federation of the Shy One - Fluttershy is best pony
Who I side with - My Discord - OC Pony - Pitch Black
White, American, Male, Asexual, Deist, Autistic with Aspergers and ADHD, Civil Liberatarian and Democratic Socialist, Brony and Whovian. I have Neurofibromatosis Type 1. I'm also INTJ
Political Compass
Economic Left/Right: -4.88
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -6.77
Pros: Choice, Democracy, Liberatarianism, Populism, Secularism, Equal Rights, Contraceptives, Immigration, Environmentalism, Free Speech and Egalitarianism
Con: Communism, Fascism, SJW 'Feminism', Terrorism, Homophobia, Transphobia, Xenophobia, Death Penalty, Totalitarianism, Neoliberalism, and War.
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Uxupox
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Founded: Nov 13, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby Uxupox » Tue May 29, 2018 9:24 am



pretty good considering i have electricity.
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Hittanryan
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Posts: 9045
Founded: Mar 10, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Hittanryan » Tue May 29, 2018 10:12 am

Salandriagado wrote:
Hittanryan wrote:Apologies, browsing casually on a phone during a break.

When it comes to the legislature, I don't think France's two-round system can really be considered the exact same as the US's single-member district FPTP elections.


No, but it's even more strongly inclined towards a two-party system. If you prefer a pure example, try Scotland.

In theory the two round system isn't automatically predisposed to a two party system. If one or both of the two largest parties put up unpopular candidates, and one of them didn't make it to the second round, everyone else could pool their votes in a third party candidate. In practice I'm sure it doesn't work out ideally. It's likely at the mercy of voter turnout and ideological voters who refuse to vote in the second round.

In a straight FPTP single member district election, unless a third party outright displaces one of the two majors, they can only be a spoiler.
In-character name of the nation is "Adiron," because I like the name better.

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