by The Parkus Empire » Wed May 16, 2018 1:17 pm
by The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp » Wed May 16, 2018 1:19 pm
by Geneviev » Wed May 16, 2018 1:27 pm
It will also prohibit police from turning a crime victim or witness over to federal immigration authorities without a warrant.
Assemblyman Reggie Jones-Sawyer, who authored the measure, says it will help immigrants cooperate with law enforcement.
by -Ocelot- » Wed May 16, 2018 1:27 pm
by The Parkus Empire » Wed May 16, 2018 1:30 pm
Geneviev wrote:In regards to the sanctuary state thing, the intent of that law wasIt will also prohibit police from turning a crime victim or witness over to federal immigration authorities without a warrant.
Assemblyman Reggie Jones-Sawyer, who authored the measure, says it will help immigrants cooperate with law enforcement.
Source: NBC
Anyways, anyone should be allowed to be conservative regardless of if they are poor or not.
by Evil Dictators Happyland » Wed May 16, 2018 1:38 pm
by The Parkus Empire » Wed May 16, 2018 1:41 pm
Evil Dictators Happyland wrote:I'm fairly certain that this started off as a question I am actually interested in, devolved into a rant about the Democratic Party, and then asked the question again. Not sure what to do with that information, though.
To answer the question part of this, I think it's because a lot of people see very wealthy, very successful, and very conservative people, and associate conservatism with wealth and success, coupled with the fact that it offers easy scapegoats/easy answers for large problems that can't really be adequately answered in a short span of time. Can't find a job? Obviously, the immigrants stole all the jobs! The globe is warming? It's just part of a natural cycle. The economy is sluggish? Blame it on the government/immigrants/etc. All of these issues are WAY too complex to actually answer in the span of a sentence (or, come to think of it, anything smaller than an essay), but that doesn't change the fact that the shorter answer will usually be accepted more.
Bear in mind, this isn't to say that conservatives are stupid. People like easy answers, and if one side can offer easy answers, they will likely get converts. Every widespread social idea I can think of has benefited from this to at least some degree.
In addition, poorer people are less likely to have the time or the education to receive or understand the full thirty minute explanation of complex issues, and are more likely to take the simple, easy one as a result. Again, this isn't because they are stupid. It is because they don't have the spare time to go through the issue in question, and they don't have the education to understand the terminology.
Tl;dr people like easy explanations, conservatism offers easy explanations, and poor people are less likely to benefit from complex explanations.
by Wanderjar » Wed May 16, 2018 1:41 pm
Evil Dictators Happyland wrote:I'm fairly certain that this started off as a question I am actually interested in, devolved into a rant about the Democratic Party, and then asked the question again. Not sure what to do with that information, though.
To answer the question part of this, I think it's because a lot of people see very wealthy, very successful, and very conservative people, and associate conservatism with wealth and success, coupled with the fact that it offers easy scapegoats/easy answers for large problems that can't really be adequately answered in a short span of time. Can't find a job? Obviously, the immigrants stole all the jobs! The globe is warming? It's just part of a natural cycle. The economy is sluggish? Blame it on the government/immigrants/etc. All of these issues are WAY too complex to actually answer in the span of a sentence (or, come to think of it, anything smaller than an essay), but that doesn't change the fact that the shorter answer will usually be accepted more.
Bear in mind, this isn't to say that conservatives are stupid. People like easy answers, and if one side can offer easy answers, they will likely get converts. Every widespread social idea I can think of has benefited from this to at least some degree.
In addition, poorer people are less likely to have the time or the education to receive or understand the full thirty minute explanation of complex issues, and are more likely to take the simple, easy one as a result. Again, this isn't because they are stupid. It is because they don't have the spare time to go through the issue in question, and they don't have the education to understand the terminology.
Tl;dr people like easy explanations, conservatism offers easy explanations, and poor people are less likely to benefit from complex explanations.
by Hakons » Wed May 16, 2018 1:42 pm
-Ocelot- wrote:Being a conservative isn't very rational by itself so anything after that shouldn't be expected to be perfectly rational either.
As for poor conservatives, they do have a tendency to support things that go against their interests all the time and that is valid beyond the US.
by Valkalan » Wed May 16, 2018 1:43 pm
by Valrifell » Wed May 16, 2018 1:45 pm
by The Parkus Empire » Wed May 16, 2018 1:47 pm
Valkalan wrote:To the contrary, it is irrational to be poor and liberal. Think about it. If you're poor, you probably don't have much in the way of connections to help you to get ahead, so you desperately need to learn skills that are valuable in the market. The school system is less than worthless in that regard, otherwise you'd be earning a middle class income straight out of high school. Liberal policies such as regulations, high taxes, and labor controls limit economic growth, and therefore job opportunities. This is especially toxic for unskilled, unconnected poor who need access to such opportunities to develop skills, or to create businesses of their own. Many are seduced by the welfare state, which disincentivizes success for fear of losing access to benefits. And of course, lets no forget that liberal programs are quite costly, and because tax increases are unpopular governments usually rely on debt for their programs. Simple mathematics and historic examples demonstrate that large deficits are unsustainable in the long run.
by Valrifell » Wed May 16, 2018 1:49 pm
The Parkus Empire wrote:Valkalan wrote:To the contrary, it is irrational to be poor and liberal. Think about it. If you're poor, you probably don't have much in the way of connections to help you to get ahead, so you desperately need to learn skills that are valuable in the market. The school system is less than worthless in that regard, otherwise you'd be earning a middle class income straight out of high school. Liberal policies such as regulations, high taxes, and labor controls limit economic growth, and therefore job opportunities. This is especially toxic for unskilled, unconnected poor who need access to such opportunities to develop skills, or to create businesses of their own. Many are seduced by the welfare state, which disincentivizes success for fear of losing access to benefits. And of course, lets no forget that liberal programs are quite costly, and because tax increases are unpopular governments usually rely on debt for their programs. Simple mathematics and historic examples demonstrate that large deficits are unsustainable in the long run.
High property taxes also make it illegal for poor people to own or inherit land and homes, and crank up rents which leads to gentrification. Also ludicrously high license costs in my state make it almost impossible to start a business here unless you already have a lot of money, or do it illegally.
by Hakons » Wed May 16, 2018 1:51 pm
Valkalan wrote:To the contrary, it is irrational to be poor and liberal. Think about it. If you're poor, you probably don't have much in the way of connections to help you to get ahead, so you desperately need to learn skills that are valuable in the market. The school system is less than worthless in that regard, otherwise you'd be earning a middle class income straight out of high school. Liberal policies such as regulations, high taxes, and labor controls limit economic growth, and therefore job opportunities. This is especially toxic for unskilled, unconnected poor who need access to such opportunities to develop skills, or to create businesses of their own. Many are seduced by the welfare state, which disincentivizes success for fear of losing access to benefits. And of course, lets no forget that liberal programs are quite costly, and because tax increases are unpopular governments usually rely on debt for their programs. Simple mathematics and historic examples demonstrate that large deficits are unsustainable in the long run.
by The Parkus Empire » Wed May 16, 2018 1:54 pm
Valrifell wrote:The Parkus Empire wrote:High property taxes also make it illegal for poor people to own or inherit land and homes, and crank up rents which leads to gentrification. Also ludicrously high license costs in my state make it almost impossible to start a business here unless you already have a lot of money, or do it illegally.
It would help if property taxes weren't inexplicably linked with local education budgets.
by Conserative Morality » Wed May 16, 2018 1:55 pm
Hakons wrote:Please, conservatism is a perfectly rational political position.
by The Parkus Empire » Wed May 16, 2018 1:57 pm
by Valkalan » Wed May 16, 2018 1:58 pm
Valrifell wrote:It would help if property taxes weren't inexplicably linked with local education budgets.
by Liberis Civitatibus » Wed May 16, 2018 2:01 pm
by Hakons » Wed May 16, 2018 2:03 pm
by Geneviev » Wed May 16, 2018 2:03 pm
Liberis Civitatibus wrote:I encourage everyone to have an opinion, regardless of what it is. But this is why I believe everyone, particularly the poor in this case, should be conservative.
Let's start with the gas tax. I live in Alberta, Canada, (born in Utah though) which is basically the economic house of Canada, not to be prideful, but it's true. The Conservative party had run Alberta for decades, and Canada for at least one. However, the Conservatives made a mistake. Some of them got corrupt. Soon the NDP ran Alberta, and the Liberals ran Canada (both left-wing). Thankfully, the conservatives have gotten rid of their corruption (at least the noticeable bit). But it was too late. The Conservatives, both provincially and federally, left a rather huge surplus in the budget. In 6 months, the same amount of time Trump put the USA back on their feet again, the surplus turned into the bigges debt growth Canada and Alberta ever had. It started because of the Carbon (which is stupid dor scientific reasons too) Tax. The idea was for the lower classes to grow, while the rich suffered. So, the rich moved away, to avoid taxation. Than, all the poor and middle class people had to pay their Carbon tax. There's also the examples you set out.
Note that everytime taxes were cut in the US, there was an economic jump, mist recently under Trump. I'm not saying cut all taxes, but that they shouldn't be so high.
Also look at the city of Detroit. In its young years, it was completely Republican. It went on to take teh spot of number one car manufacturer in the world. It's economy was booming, and maybe even challenged NYC. In the early 1960s, the first Democrat was elected as mayor of Detroit. Detroit has been Democratic ever since, and oh yeah, it's a cesspool of gang violence now.
Conservatism is good for the poor too (research Reagan (my favourite president and once Californian governor)'s idea of Trickle Down Economcis, which was also behind Trump's tax cut). Since the 1920s, the USA has been almost completely Capitalists, regardless of Democrats or Republicans. Now compare the average poor person today to the average rich person of the 1920s. They both have cars, radios (televisions in the modern case), toasters, microwavea and so on.
Now, left-wing ideologies are more pleasing to the poor. They're get rich schemes. However, they're get rich schemes then burn all of that money. Capitalism takes longer, but also lasts longer, and if protected, hopefully forever.
Telegram me for more references, ideas, and information.
by Liberis Civitatibus » Wed May 16, 2018 2:03 pm
by The Parkus Empire » Wed May 16, 2018 2:06 pm
Genivaria wrote:Conservative or Republican?
Because OP seems to be using those interchangeably.
by Conserative Morality » Wed May 16, 2018 2:07 pm
Hakons wrote:I still don't think it's fair to say another person's opinion of politics is irrational. Poor people can rationally be liberal. It's rude to point out people and paint their ideology as irrational when one doesn't even know why that person possesses that ideology.
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