What improvements would you like to see for GE&T?

[Charellia]

You search for the tag that you are looking for, and see if there are any results. They haven't been officially rolled out yet, so I don't know how many people are using them.

This thread should come up if you search them, though, shouldn't it? When I search !civ.conglom, for example, this thread, which contains all the tags, doesn't appear as a result.

[Lamoni]

That I cannot provide an answer for, personally. It might be a technical problem.

[Gandoor]

For some reason I've discovered that the search function goes funny when there's an exclamation mark in what you're searching, so you have to search civ.conglom NOT !civ.conglom in order for things tagged with that to show up. (Same with any other GE&T tags)

[Kyrusia]

For some reason I've discovered that the search function goes funny when there's an exclamation mark in what you're searching, so you have to search civ.conglom NOT !civ.conglom in order for things tagged with that to show up. (Same with any other GE&T tags)

Interesting. Tested this myself and this does seem to be the case, which is interesting, as when we originally developed this idea, it worked fine. (As did similar concepts in older stickies, actually.)

Well, this is one reason why we went ahead and revealed this: helps smooth out any problems we run across. This one just happens to have a very simple solution: remove "!" from the tags. Unfortunately that means we may need to re-think some of the single word tags (such as "vice"; a quick search of it will show why). "GET.vice" or similar? We're clearly open to suggestions.

Edit: Current list of tags with the "!" removed. Those in italics may need some re-thinking, given now they're just too common to be useful. (Speaking of, I see y'all have already solved the issue of "vice." )

mil.arms
mil.ground
mil.air
mil.naval
mil.med
mil.conglom
mil.WMD
mil.merc
civ.space
civ.med
civ.energy
civ.green
civ.resource
civ.tech
civ.transport
civ.airline
civ.conglom
civ.finance
civ.accredit
civ.vice
civ.retail
civ.food
civ.entertain
MTech
PMTech
FTech
FanTech
PTech
slavery
govt
misc
accredited

testing_this

[Yohannes]

---

Oh hi!

I have recently introduced the whole tag thing (finally...) for one of my threads. It didn't work as intended (unless I have done something wrong...)

I put "mil.arms" here [link]

Tags: mil.arms mil.ground mil.air MTech

When I did use the search function (while logged out), I was presented with the following search results: [link]

Most of the first page (of the results) was filled with this (and related) topic, which was fine. However, the rest (of the first page) and the second and third pages pointed me to posts or threads that did not even use the "mil.arms" tag at all. It was only on the bottom of the third page that I finally did see the post of someone who also used that tag (Allanea); unfortunately, it was not the storefront thread which he used the "mil.arms" tag in

This is his proper one (the one with the "mil.arms" tag: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=363687

Instead I got this (the closest there was to a related topic by someone who used that tag): viewtopic.php?f=6&t=1859&hilit=mil.arms

Sadly, I also couldn't find my storefront at all (it's buried too deep down the Search found, with the first four pages full of posts and threads made by designers who did not even use the "mil.arms" tag)

Unless I've done something wrong here (I feel...), I don't know?

Edit:

search.php?keywords=mil.ground&fid%5B0%5D=6

"mil.ground" wasn't working as well (the opening post threads - both mine and Allanea) were buried too deep down the Search found, with the closest topics I got to my storefront being a thread that didn't even use the tag at all: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=442314&p=33958747&hilit=mil.ground#p33958747

I must have done something wrong here... otherwise, not looking good

Edit2: "mil.air" wasn't working as well: search.php?st=0&sk=t&sd=d&sr=posts&keywords=mil.air&fid%5B%5D=6&start=25

(skipped first page because it pretty much was filled with this and related topic)

Edit3: "MTech" didn't work too: search.php?st=0&sk=t&sd=d&sr=posts&keywords=MTech&fid%5B%5D=6&start=25

Aug 18, 2017

Edit4: Tried "mil.ground" again, just after this thread (which use the "mil.ground" tag here) was bumped... yeah. Couldn't find his thread at all. I don't think this whole thing is working well. I probably did search wrong? I am not sure...

[Libraria and Ausitoria]

Perhaps one could try making the tags more distinctive, e.g. m1lc0m not mil.com ? Or give each a distinctive 4-digit number?

[Yohannes]

Perhaps one could try making the tags more distinctive, e.g. m1lc0m not mil.com ? Or give each a distinctive 4-digit number?

I have a feeling it's only because this has not been formally introduced yet. Maybe there's a forum code that Kyrusia (or any of the higher up Moderators) must do before the tag function can work properly? Not sure

The worrying thing is (if the above is not the case) the last post here (before mine) was Kyrusia's, which was posted on [Edit3: 19 March] 8 March. There was not a single fixing suggestion or warning from anyone that something's not working properly (i.e. the whole system's not even working in the first place). Where's everyone? Why was no one checking the thing? By this I am not trying to put the blame on the GE&T Mentors or Kyrusia himself. I am asking us: where were we? Though maybe the answer to that is simple: we trust the whole thing would work so we don't bother to check at all. That was what I did too... until I actually went and tried the thing properly. And now we know it's not working.

We are on 14 May now. I am bad at Math (an established old NS designer from an off-site designing forum just before told me of how I miscounted number meant for second to minute instead for one of my designs; that's how bad I can be!), but I think that's 2 months passing already? Not even a single feedback telling Kyrusia that the whole thing isn't working. It's time passing by without anything happening at all

Edit: Actually, the date of the opening post (in this thread) was made on 18 August 2017. We went from proposing something as idealistic as trying to bring everyone together and lift standard of sub forum presence (e.g. through accreditation, peer review, community discussion, etc.) to something as mindbogglingly simple (unless, again, there's a coding change that needs to be done by the Moderators?) as tag searching... and it took us almost a year just to do this. I may sound like a (stop complaining dude! You are really annoying stop it Yohannes!)... but, almost a year and we couldn't even create something as simple as a tag search feature (if, again, no Moderator code changing is required)... is just, I don't know what's the word for it, depressing?

Edit2: Unless... again, I did use the wrong search function (or did the whole tag search thing wrong), or again, the whole thing needs to be introduced with an extra code change (by Moderators). Then I would like to apologise for what I have written here. Though I will still stand by what I have written as almost one year has passed... and nothing has been produced at all

[Gandoor]

One issue I have with the code thing is the search function will be in reverse chronological order from when a post was made.

So say everyone adopted the codes and added them to their storefronts and you've got one user who made a thread in 2013 and another who made a thread a couple weeks ago, both of whom use the same tag, say 'civ.food'.

When doing a search, you'd find the recently created thread near the top of the results and the older thread buried deeper in the results.

[Lamoni]

It will not be perfect, but the tags work within the limitations of the forum software.

[Kyrusia]

I have recently introduced the whole tag thing (finally...) for one of my threads.

This thread was stickied in August, and only recently un-stickied as we moved onto a different phase of development.

There are limitations of the search engine, unfortunately, and no, there aren't going to be any coding changes related specifically to this. Sorry, but there's a lot on Admin's plate, and this isn't one of those things. Moderators don't deal with coding.

Beyond this, Yohannes, this is also a part of a broader project to re-structure the entire GE&T stickies; not "just tags." It will be implemented when it's implemented, and as you can see by the current sticky, we're not implementing it yet. Feel free to participate in the actual ongoing development of the tag system, where community input is specifically requested, as well. It's stickied.

Otherwise, Gandoor and Lamoni answered your questions. As to why unrelated search terms are showing up, I imagine it has to do with the hits you found having URLs or periods incorporated already, leading to false positives. A quick glance seemed to indicate that. Specifically, it's finding "mil" due to URLs and, evidently, how search parses them. If you want to avoid false positives, perform your search inside of "quotation marks," as has been said. As to why some storefronts specifically aren't showing up, even with that, I have no idea; that seems to be a bug. I'll forward it to the Admins, and they'll take a look when they have the time to. We've had search technical bugs before.

[Yohannes]

I am not sure what is that supposed to mean. I have already "participated." I originally telegrammed my choice to Maltropia because I wanted to avoid OOC commenting. Maltropia should remember that. But after seeing so many things going wrong, how can I not post OOC? It's like this sub forum is in slow death mode since 2013. This is not the usual boring nostalgia talk; otherwise I would say "2010", not "2013". And no one cares, not even the ones who should be in charge of this sub forum. If I am the one who do this back in 2012 when I was still a Mentor in charge of the GE&T, everything would have been done already by now. A year is no excuse for a tag feature.

edit: I am sorry I have offended you (Kyrusia) and Lamoni/Maltropia (Yohannes, again, again, and again... I hope that player just cease to exist already), but I've got to say this: if I was the one who did this back in 2012 (with the help of at least one more ge&t. mentor, e.g. maltropia, lamoni, etc.)this would be done by now, even counting me being not as active than I was back then

[Kyrusia]

I am not sure what is that supposed to mean. I have already "participated."

I didn't see any post in that thread; so forgive me for assuming, no, you hadn't participated.

I originally telegrammed my choice to Maltropia because I wanted to avoid OOC commenting. Maltropia should remember that.

Mentor inboxes, like player inboxes, are private; yes, they extend their willingness to communicate with people via TG. They don't, and aren't obliged, to communicate on the behalf of third parties. If you wish to comment, comment with your own posting.

[Yohannes]

There's no hope for this sub forum. The pyramid (of designers, not picture spammers) order that originally nurtured sub forum regeneration's gone, replaced by moderator appointed programme that had lost vision and forgot what it was originally created for

Borderline rulebreaking culture in the form of alt spamming leading to unsavoury characters being more daring than ever before on the history of this sub forum not just discouraged, but encouraged; any dissenting voice (no matter how peaceful) discouraged and not even heard (with character assassination done to that person to make the player looking like a constant complainer)

A culture of worship leading to lack of genuine, sincere community (with white knights all supporting the worshipped to try to look good). This sub forum is dead and will be even more dead. You have changed Kyrusia. You are not the person that I knew back in 2012. Lamoni has changed too. Maltropia (to his credit), however, is still the same (though I don't know whether you people make fun of me in your secret sub forum anyway). Some other people who have some of the biggest ge&t presence have changed also; you can tell they are holding back strategically and only acting when it supports the mentors' action. Oh gosh What am I doing posting here, not that it will make a difference anyway just going to make more and more disliked

[Kyrusia]

There's no hope for this sub forum. The pyramid (of designers, not picture spammers) order that originally nurtured sub forum regeneration's gone, replaced by moderator appointed programme that had lost vision and forgot what it was originally created for

Borderline rulebreaking culture in the form of alt spamming leading to unsavoury characters being more daring than ever before on the history of this sub forum not just discouraged, but encouraged; any dissenting voice (no matter how peaceful) discouraged and not even heard (with character assassination done to that person to make the player looking like a constant complainer)

A culture of worship leading to lack of genuine, sincere community (with white knights all supporting the worshipped to try to look good). This sub forum is dead and will be even more dead. You have changed Kyrusia. You are not the person that I knew back in 2012. Lamoni has changed too. Maltropia (to his credit), however, is still the same (though I don't know whether you people make fun of me in your secret sub forum anyway). Some other people who have some of the biggest ge&t presence have changed also; you can tell they are holding back strategically and only acting when it supports the mentors' action. Oh gosh What am I doing posting here, not that it will make a difference anyway just going to make more and more disliked

Thank you for your input. Your commentary will be given all due consideration.

[North Caucasian Emirates]

As a newb to GE&T, I hope I am allowed to speak. If not, I’ll speak anyway, as long as I don’t break any rules.

I’ve been perusing this subforum for years—and for just as many years, I have been reluctant to post, as I strive to make good first impressions, so to speak—but apart from Lamoni reviewing my storefront and giving me pointers after partially completing it, I honestly had to rely on browsing previous storefronts for inspiration on formatting and what sort of thing to say. No, I did not—and never will—plagiarise; I just needed some idea of how to format my first ever storefront.

Which brings me to a suggestion: see—on F&NI—there is a Wiki-style factbook guide written by Ponderosa, and by God it is a hit among factbook-writers, who make good-quality factbooks based on a generous donation! Now—given the situation in GE&T, where there are no storefront templates, and everyone must come up with their own—what about someone write up an easy-to-install storefront template for the major storefront types, as a nation on the first page suggested? See, I have had years of perfecting my formatting—though just the other day, I had to ask Kyrusia about the blocktext tag, and he was very good about it—but not everyone has had years of perfection and experimentation with formatting, and you can’t just rip-off someone else’s formatting; I know that people who do that are often too afraid to ask the owner, out of fear of being told “no”. But still, don’t do that; it’s a sign of being a bad sport if you don’t ask first, and moderators may take action as a result.

I am an overgrown newb when it comes to storefronts—and a very wordy one at that—but, as soon as I have time, I am willing to contribute to storefront formatting guides and templates, based on my years of observations. Sure, you can say it’s generic—and makes everything look generic—but tell you what; people will develop their own style over time, or at least most people, and branch off from templates as a springboard, into greater founts of creativity and knowledge!

[Libraria and Ausitoria]

That strikes me as a good idea.

Anyway, somebody put Yohannes in a position of power. I may not agree with everything he says, but at least he says it. A bit of cognitive dissonance is a good thing. A field watered with blood can sometimes produce the prettiest flowers. Discussion breeds new understanding and new ideas. That’s why all dictatorships are doomed.

(I am referring to RL here, not NS. Trying to stop discussion on the internet is like trying to command the tide to turn back. You’ll end up looking like a wet fish. I speak from experience).

If you wish to comment, comment with your own posting.

I hereby extend an open offer to post anything by anyone where the text is not repulsive or incompetent.

[Yohannes]

No, don't. Please stop it Libraria. Kyrusia and the GE&T Mentors are working as hard as they can, as I have repeatedly said here. I gave up too quickly and that showed that I was never a good Mentor material in the first place (why the Mentors voted me to become one back then I don't know)

There is a reason why Maltropia and Lamoni are the ones in charge of GE&T now and that is because they have what it take to handle this. I took it a bit too far there (it was my fault). Please (asking this in a nice way) don't bring it up Libraria (regarding anything like "power" or stuff like that). I dislike that stuff thanks. Moderators, feel free to remove my post if this is considered a threadjack. Sorry.

Edit: and thank you for your confidence Libraria, but again, this whole thing shows that I am/was not a good leader material. So please (again, asking this in a nice way) leave me out of this whole "power" thing... thank you

post I am replying to

That strikes me as a good idea.

Anyway, somebody put Yohannes in a position of power. I may not agree with everything he says, but at least he says it. A bit of cognitive dissonance is a good thing. A field watered with blood can sometimes produce the prettiest flowers. Discussion breeds new understanding and new ideas. That’s why all dictatorships are doomed.

(I am referring to RL here, not NS. Trying to stop discussion on the internet is like trying to command the tide to turn back. You’ll end up looking like a wet fish. I speak from experience).

If you wish to comment, comment with your own posting.

I hereby extend an open offer to post anything by anyone where the text is not repulsive or incompetent.

[Kyrusia]

As a newb to GE&T, I hope I am allowed to speak. If not, I’ll speak anyway, as long as I don’t break any rules.

I’ve been perusing this subforum for years—and for just as many years, I have been reluctant to post, as I strive to make good first impressions, so to speak—but apart from Lamoni reviewing my storefront and giving me pointers after partially completing it, I honestly had to rely on browsing previous storefronts for inspiration on formatting and what sort of thing to say. No, I did not—and never will—plagiarise; I just needed some idea of how to format my first ever storefront.

Which brings me to a suggestion: see—on F&NI—there is a Wiki-style factbook guide written by Ponderosa, and by God it is a hit among factbook-writers, who make good-quality factbooks based on a generous donation! Now—given the situation in GE&T, where there are no storefront templates, and everyone must come up with their own—what about someone write up an easy-to-install storefront template for the major storefront types, as a nation on the first page suggested? See, I have had years of perfecting my formatting—though just the other day, I had to ask Kyrusia about the blocktext tag, and he was very good about it—but not everyone has had years of perfection and experimentation with formatting, and you can’t just rip-off someone else’s formatting; I know that people who do that are often too afraid to ask the owner, out of fear of being told “no”. But still, don’t do that; it’s a sign of being a bad sport if you don’t ask first, and moderators may take action as a result.

I am an overgrown newb when it comes to storefronts—and a very wordy one at that—but, as soon as I have time, I am willing to contribute to storefront formatting guides and templates, based on my years of observations. Sure, you can say it’s generic—and makes everything look generic—but tell you what; people will develop their own style over time, or at least most people, and branch off from templates as a springboard, into greater founts of creativity and knowledge!

That does sound like something that might be worth pursuing. This isn't intended to be sarcastic, but legit: you should, if/when you have the time. A guide written from the perspective of, say, "Here are some templates for ideas for your storefront appearance, and while you may use them, I strongly urge you to build off them and make them your own. Here's some tips, suggestions, etc. of how to do just that," I think would be a very positive and good contribution to the body of community knowledge in GE&T.

We do have a guide on BBCode that one of our Mentors was nice enough to put together years ago, though it's more general in its basis, and not specifically-inclined toward GE&T. Useful, but not quite the same thing. You know where to reach me if you want me to confuse myself, then spend 10 minutes explaining a specific tidbit of BBCode. Then again, I have a soft-spot for fancy formatting as well, so, and it's not unheard of for me to make fun little BBCode snippets spare because it's fun.

[Australian rePublic]

Improvement:
Airport and Airline locations:

It's a pretty good idea for airport and airline threads to state where their country is located, especially if said country is not based on a real one. I can appreciate that the NS world is very different to the real world, but you can use your best estimate. This is so that we know which destinations in our country the airlines can fly to, and which aircraft would be suitable. For example, from my country's perspective, a flight to South Asia, South-East Asia, Parts of Antarctica and South-Western Polynesia are very different to flights to flights to the Eastern Indian Ocean. The next tear with the next range of airports and aircraft would be flights to Northern and Eastern Polynesia, Siberia and various other parts of Antarctica, followed by flights to the Middle East, Western North America, parts of South America and the final tear would be flights to the rest of the world. But this is from an Australian perspective. If a country which is NOT based on a real one wanted to run an airline/airport thread, they would have different aircraft and different airports for use for flights to Northern Africa, Europe and the Middle East, and their next tear would be flights to Asia and parts of Africa, followed by flights to the rest of the world. By having such information provided to us, it would make selecting aircraft and selecting destinations ans well as flight frequencies significantly easier

[Valkea]

Improvement:
Airport and Airline locations:

It's a pretty good idea for airport and airline threads to state where their country is located, especially if said country is not based on a real one. I can appreciate that the NS world is very different to the real world, but you can use your best estimate. This is so that we know which destinations in our country the airlines can fly to, and which aircraft would be suitable. For example, from my country's perspective, a flight to South Asia, South-East Asia, Parts of Antarctica and South-Western Polynesia are very different to flights to flights to the Eastern Indian Ocean. The next tear with the next range of airports and aircraft would be flights to Northern and Eastern Polynesia, Siberia and various other parts of Antarctica, followed by flights to the Middle East, Western North America, parts of South America and the final tear would be flights to the rest of the world. But this is from an Australian perspective. If a country which is NOT based on a real one wanted to run an airline/airport thread, they would have different aircraft and different airports for use for flights to Northern Africa, Europe and the Middle East, and their next tear would be flights to Asia and parts of Africa, followed by flights to the rest of the world. By having such information provided to us, it would make selecting aircraft and selecting destinations ans well as flight frequencies significantly easier

I think a better system would be to provide choices for distance. This way applicants can indicate how far a destination is from the airport (be it short-haul, medium-haul, or long-haul) and help inform the storefront operator on which aircraft to send. Optionally the operator can append additional information such as the estimated range for each choice to help the applicants choose.

[Australian rePublic]

Improvement:
Airport and Airline locations:

It's a pretty good idea for airport and airline threads to state where their country is located, especially if said country is not based on a real one. I can appreciate that the NS world is very different to the real world, but you can use your best estimate. This is so that we know which destinations in our country the airlines can fly to, and which aircraft would be suitable. For example, from my country's perspective, a flight to South Asia, South-East Asia, Parts of Antarctica and South-Western Polynesia are very different to flights to flights to the Eastern Indian Ocean. The next tear with the next range of airports and aircraft would be flights to Northern and Eastern Polynesia, Siberia and various other parts of Antarctica, followed by flights to the Middle East, Western North America, parts of South America and the final tear would be flights to the rest of the world. But this is from an Australian perspective. If a country which is NOT based on a real one wanted to run an airline/airport thread, they would have different aircraft and different airports for use for flights to Northern Africa, Europe and the Middle East, and their next tear would be flights to Asia and parts of Africa, followed by flights to the rest of the world. By having such information provided to us, it would make selecting aircraft and selecting destinations ans well as flight frequencies significantly easier

I think a better system would be to provide choices for distance. This way applicants can indicate how far a destination is from the airport (be it short-haul, medium-haul, or long-haul) and help inform the storefront operator on which aircraft to send. Optionally the operator can append additional information such as the estimated range for each choice to help the applicants choose.

How will you calculate distances if you don't know where country is located? Atleast with geography, you can make general approxinations. You might ask me how far my country is from you, well how would I know where your country is located? But if you told me "Eastern Europe" I can make a rough guesstimate which may not be perfect, but close enough

Also, it's easier to think/imagine/calculate in terms of geography, rather than distances

[Neu Engollon]

I think a better system would be to provide choices for distance. This way applicants can indicate how far a destination is from the airport (be it short-haul, medium-haul, or long-haul) and help inform the storefront operator on which aircraft to send. Optionally the operator can append additional information such as the estimated range for each choice to help the applicants choose.

How will you calculate distances if you don't know where country is located? Atleast with geography, you can make general approxinations. You might ask me how far my country is from you, well how would I know where your country is located? But if you told me "Eastern Europe" I can make a rough guesstimate which may not be perfect, but close enough

Also, it's easier to think/imagine/calculate in terms of geography, rather than distances

This only works with nations based on RL geography, which leaves out a lot of other NS nations that have taken a lot of time to embed themselves in other regions without RL basis. The multiverse globe is vague and vast.

[Libraria and Ausitoria]

Generally I presume that to get to another region, just fly over (or near) a pole.

Also just for clarity, I wan’t calling for Yohannes to replace anyone. I’d just like to make clear that I for one value his contributions. A different perspective is in danger of becoming as rare (and useful, and important) as common sense.

[Australian rePublic]

How will you calculate distances if you don't know where country is located? Atleast with geography, you can make general approxinations. You might ask me how far my country is from you, well how would I know where your country is located? But if you told me "Eastern Europe" I can make a rough guesstimate which may not be perfect, but close enough

Also, it's easier to think/imagine/calculate in terms of geography, rather than distances

This only works with nations based on RL geography, which leaves out a lot of other NS nations that have taken a lot of time to embed themselves in other regions without RL basis. The multiverse globe is vague and vast.

This is for MT airlines. Different tech levels are out of my domain

[Crookfur]

This only works with nations based on RL geography, which leaves out a lot of other NS nations that have taken a lot of time to embed themselves in other regions without RL basis. The multiverse globe is vague and vast.

This is for MT airlines. Different tech levels are out of my domain

Using non RL locations/geography doesn't mean they aren't MT...

That kind of restriction is fine for closed RP groups/regions but doesn't work for wider NS MT role play.

Edit:
Trying to pin down where various regions are in regard to each other has had a long and troubled hiatory on NS with umpteen attempts to hammer stuff out but frankly nothing has ever worked no matter how stupidly simple and neively well Intentioned the ideas have been.