NATION

PASSWORD

Fascism

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)
User avatar
The Parkus Empire
Post Czar
 
Posts: 43030
Founded: Sep 12, 2005
Ex-Nation

Fascism

Postby The Parkus Empire » Mon May 07, 2018 1:30 pm

A word which is used quite frequently, but with different definitions by different users. Some people will use it very narrowly, others will say it includes leaders such as Franco and Dollfuss, and yet others will expand it so much to include the Soviet Union (which I frankly find ridiculous, as the Soviet Union was highly meritocratic and had an unprecedented degree of racial and gender equality, especially for the 1920's).

So what are the criteria of fascism? Feel free to post yours, but here are mine.

1. Totalitarian (not simply authoritarian).
2. Extremely socially conservative, with the caveat that the bond to the state is held to precede all the familial, communal and religious bonds, rather than the reverse.
3. Economically conservative (as opposed to liberal, or socialist).
4. Militaristic
American Orthodox: one, holy, catholic, and apostolic church.
Jesus is Allah ن
Burkean conservative
Homophobic
Anti-feminist sexist
♂Copy and paste this in your sig if you passed biology and know men and women aren't the same.♀

User avatar
New Bradenia
Envoy
 
Posts: 226
Founded: Apr 16, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby New Bradenia » Mon May 07, 2018 1:32 pm

The Parkus Empire wrote:A word which is used quite frequently, but with different definitions by different users. Some people will use it very narrowly, others will say it includes leaders such as Franco and Dollfuss, and yet others will expand it so much to include the Soviet Union (which I frankly find ridiculous, as the Soviet Union was highly meritocratic and had an unprecedented degree of racial and gender equality, especially for the 1920's).

So what are the criteria of fascism? Feel free to post yours, but here are mine.

1. Totalitarian (not simply authoritarian).
2. Extremely socially conservative, with the caveat that the bond to the state is held to precede all the familial, communal and religious bonds, rather than the reverse.
3. Economically conservative (as opposed to liberal, or socialist).
4. Militaristic


Fascist New Bradenia

User avatar
Chestaan
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6977
Founded: Sep 30, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Chestaan » Mon May 07, 2018 1:34 pm

Highly nationalistic authoritarian dictatorships. I think the emphasis on nationalism, and how the wellbeing of the individual must be sacrificed for the good of the nation is key, which is probably why they usually oppose Marxism so strongly.
Council Communist
TG me if you want to chat, especially about economics, you can never have enough discussions on economics.Especially game theory :)
Economic Left/Right: -9.88
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -6.62

Getting the Guillotine

User avatar
Irou
Chargé d'Affaires
 
Posts: 431
Founded: Jan 28, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Irou » Mon May 07, 2018 1:37 pm

Chestaan wrote:Highly nationalistic authoritarian dictatorships. I think the emphasis on nationalism, and how the wellbeing of the individual must be sacrificed for the good of the nation is key, which is probably why they usually oppose Marxism so strongly.

But what is a nation in fascist's eyes?
4th Positionist, Occultist, Mongrel, Neo-Confederate, Ethnopluralist and National Bolshevik
How I see myself in 10 years


Pro: Occult, Esotericism, Technocracy, Collectivism, Pantheism, Sharia in the mid east, Identity Politics, Eugenics, Paternalism, National Bolshevism, Christian Economics, Setting Hollywood and Washington D.C. on fire, D.O.T.S.,Traditionalist school
Anti: Anarchism,Progressivism,Individualism, Antifa, Liberalism,Free market, , passiveness, Materialism,Atheism, Centrism,, Urbanism.
Myers Briggs: INTP-A
8values: State Socialism
IQ: 132.6
EQ: 47
Empathy Quotient: 23

User avatar
Tobleste
Minister
 
Posts: 2713
Founded: Dec 27, 2017
Democratic Socialists

Postby Tobleste » Mon May 07, 2018 1:38 pm

1. Intolerance of alternative political groups.
2. Belief in a superior culture/race that the government should protect.
3. Support for an unchallenged strongman.
4. Aggressive approach to enemies - foreign and domestic.
5. Conservative view of gender roles.

This is an interesting question and I found a political scientist's description of the tenets of fascism. https://ratical.org/ratville/CAH/fasci14chars.html
Social Democrat
Political Compass:
Economic Left/Right: -4.63
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -4.26

User avatar
United Muscovite Nations
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 25657
Founded: Feb 01, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby United Muscovite Nations » Mon May 07, 2018 1:39 pm

The Parkus Empire wrote:A word which is used quite frequently, but with different definitions by different users. Some people will use it very narrowly, others will say it includes leaders such as Franco and Dollfuss, and yet others will expand it so much to include the Soviet Union (which I frankly find ridiculous, as the Soviet Union was highly meritocratic and had an unprecedented degree of racial and gender equality, especially for the 1920's).

So what are the criteria of fascism? Feel free to post yours, but here are mine.

1. Totalitarian (not simply authoritarian).
2. Extremely socially conservative, with the caveat that the bond to the state is held to precede all the familial, communal and religious bonds, rather than the reverse.
3. Economically conservative (as opposed to liberal, or socialist).
4. Militaristic

I would say:

>corporatism or syndicalist economic system
>palingenetic ultranationalism
>totalitarianism
>extreme militarism and glorification of violence
Grumpy Grandpa of the LWDT and RWDT
Kantian with panentheist and Christian beliefs. Rawlsian Socialist. Just completed studies in History and International Relations. Asexual with sex-revulsion.
The world is grey, the mountains old, the forges fire is ashen cold. No harp is wrung, no hammer falls, the darkness dwells in Durin's halls...
Formerly United Marxist Nations, Dec 02, 2011- Feb 01, 2017. +33,837 posts
Borderline Personality Disorder, currently in treatment. I apologize if I blow up at you. TG me for info, can't discuss publicly because the mods support stigma on mental illness.

User avatar
DPR of Arstotzka
Attaché
 
Posts: 89
Founded: Apr 26, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby DPR of Arstotzka » Mon May 07, 2018 1:40 pm

The Parkus Empire wrote:A word which is used quite frequently, but with different definitions by different users. Some people will use it very narrowly, others will say it includes leaders such as Franco and Dollfuss, and yet others will expand it so much to include the Soviet Union (which I frankly find ridiculous, as the Soviet Union was highly meritocratic and had an unprecedented degree of racial and gender equality, especially for the 1920's).

So what are the criteria of fascism? Feel free to post yours, but here are mine.

1. Totalitarian (not simply authoritarian).
2. Extremely socially conservative, with the caveat that the bond to the state is held to precede all the familial, communal and religious bonds, rather than the reverse.
3. Economically conservative (as opposed to liberal, or socialist).
4. Militaristic

My personal criteria of fascism are:

1. Authoritarian/Totalitarian
2. Socially Conservative
3. Class-Based Society
4. Militaristic
5. Nationalist or promoting a certain group of people (Hitler was nationalist and promoted the Aryan race, while Franco was nationalist and promoted Catholicism)
"Nothing is permanent in this wicked world. Not even our troubles." - Charlie Chaplin
A 24 civilization, according to this index.
Glory to Arstotzka.
Current Year: 1988
The Democratic People's Republic of Arstotzka
Local Arstotzkan News: Opposition Party formed, low popularity
International News:
Arstotzka relaxes control over political sphere
How many nations have I made? Creator of -The Kalmar Union-, Unoppressed Peoples, and Supreme Violet Ascendancy. Like all of my nations, this doesn't represent my views. Islas Malvinas!

User avatar
Heimatia
Bureaucrat
 
Posts: 50
Founded: Oct 31, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby Heimatia » Mon May 07, 2018 1:43 pm

Irou wrote:
Chestaan wrote:Highly nationalistic authoritarian dictatorships. I think the emphasis on nationalism, and how the wellbeing of the individual must be sacrificed for the good of the nation is key, which is probably why they usually oppose Marxism so strongly.

But what is a nation in fascist's eyes?

If we're to go with Mussolini's initial blend of Fascism, then it is merely the state. He didn't even hold particularly inflammatory views on race till ol' tiny mustache got powerful and scary.
N.G.N.S.
"Protected and resplendent, the Dominion forever."

User avatar
Zurkerx
Retired Moderator
 
Posts: 12340
Founded: Jan 20, 2011
Anarchy

Postby Zurkerx » Mon May 07, 2018 1:44 pm

My criteria:

1. Nationalist
2. Social Conservative
3. Militaristic
4. Imperialistic
5. Corporatism
A Golden Civic: The New Pragmatic Libertarian
My Words: Indeed, Indubitably & Malarkey
Retired Admin in NSGS and NS Parliament

Accountant, Author, History Buff, Political Junkie
“Has ambition so eclipsed principle?” ~ Mitt Romney
"Try not to become a person of success, but rather try to become a person of value." ~ Albert Einstein
"Trust, but verify." ~ Ronald Reagan

User avatar
The Black Party
Minister
 
Posts: 2558
Founded: Oct 31, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby The Black Party » Mon May 07, 2018 1:44 pm

All in service to one superior being, who in-turn, provides a service to the nation-state.
Don't talk to Moderators.
Don't associate with Moderators.
Don't trust Moderators.
Moderators Lie.
"Revolt Against the Mod World"

User avatar
The Parkus Empire
Post Czar
 
Posts: 43030
Founded: Sep 12, 2005
Ex-Nation

Postby The Parkus Empire » Mon May 07, 2018 1:45 pm

DPR of Arstotzka wrote:
The Parkus Empire wrote:A word which is used quite frequently, but with different definitions by different users. Some people will use it very narrowly, others will say it includes leaders such as Franco and Dollfuss, and yet others will expand it so much to include the Soviet Union (which I frankly find ridiculous, as the Soviet Union was highly meritocratic and had an unprecedented degree of racial and gender equality, especially for the 1920's).

So what are the criteria of fascism? Feel free to post yours, but here are mine.

1. Totalitarian (not simply authoritarian).
2. Extremely socially conservative, with the caveat that the bond to the state is held to precede all the familial, communal and religious bonds, rather than the reverse.
3. Economically conservative (as opposed to liberal, or socialist).
4. Militaristic

My personal criteria of fascism are:

1. Authoritarian/Totalitarian
2. Socially Conservative
3. Class-Based Society
4. Militaristic
5. Nationalist or promoting a certain group of people (Hitler was nationalist and promoted the Aryan race, while Franco was nationalist and promoted Catholicism)

This seems to drastically expand fascism beyond a modernist ideology.
American Orthodox: one, holy, catholic, and apostolic church.
Jesus is Allah ن
Burkean conservative
Homophobic
Anti-feminist sexist
♂Copy and paste this in your sig if you passed biology and know men and women aren't the same.♀

User avatar
Northeast American Federation
Diplomat
 
Posts: 796
Founded: Oct 18, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby Northeast American Federation » Mon May 07, 2018 1:52 pm

I'm curious, what more is there to this discussion beyond simply laying out definitions.
And for the sake of sticking to that, my definition of fascism would include:
1. Hypernationalism
2. Totalitarianism
3. Dictatorship(usually)
4. Hypermilitarism
5. State partnership with major companies(as opposed to more socialist economic systems in which the state simply takes them over outright)
Pro: United States of America, American Exceptionalism, Bill of Rights, Capitalism, Western Civilization, Federalism, Nationalism, Democratic Republics, Militarism, Traditional Families and gender roles, Space Exploration, Law and Order, Equality of opportunity(not to be confused with outcome), Border Security
Anti: Communism, Socialism, Modern Feminism, "Progressivism", Nazism(actual nazism, not "you disagree with me so you're a nazi" nazism), Monarchy, Globalism, Racism and racial supremacy groups of all colors, radical Islamic terrorism, Anarchism, Direct Democracy, Open Borders, Drugs, Antifa

User avatar
Ostroeuropa
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 58535
Founded: Jun 14, 2006
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Ostroeuropa » Mon May 07, 2018 1:57 pm

It needs populism and anti-capitalism imo, alongside nationalism, and a support for violence as a rejuvenating force in society. There should also be an ambivalence to democracy at least, and more normally, hostility to democracy.
Ostro.MOV

There is an out of control trolley speeding towards Jeremy Bentham, who is tied to the track. You can pull the lever to cause the trolley to switch tracks, but on the other track is Immanuel Kant. Bentham is clutching the only copy in the universe of The Critique of Pure Reason. Kant is clutching the only copy in the universe of The Principles of Moral Legislation. Both men are shouting at you that they have recently started to reconsider their ethical stances.

User avatar
Reikoku
Senator
 
Posts: 3645
Founded: Apr 01, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby Reikoku » Mon May 07, 2018 2:26 pm

The best description I know of would be a totalitarian, militaristic, and patriarchal ideology which is centered around national rebirth while being strongly for vitalism and idealism in the face of Marxist materialism and liberal positivism. Corporatist and other organic economic bodies are supported over laissez-faire capitalism or collectivist communism. The best examples of this would be the Falange and Italian Fascist Party which fulfilled the entire criterion, while others such as Nazi Germany had numerous elements, but may not have completed them all.
The Parkus Empire wrote:2. Extremely socially conservative, with the caveat that the bond to the state is held to precede all the familial, communal and religious bonds, rather than the reverse.


Fascism is about as conservative as the Gorean subculture. It wants more children for the state, and is not afraid to violate institutions such as marriage in order to achieve this (Mussolini rewarded unwed couples and Himmler encouraged trysts between Waffen SS officers and native women in Nordic countries).

User avatar
Sicaris
Diplomat
 
Posts: 846
Founded: Jun 14, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby Sicaris » Mon May 07, 2018 2:28 pm

Heimatia wrote:
Irou wrote:But what is a nation in fascist's eyes?

If we're to go with Mussolini's initial blend of Fascism, then it is merely the state. He didn't even hold particularly inflammatory views on race till ol' tiny mustache got powerful and scary.


This.
This country doesn’t represent my political views.
Three Principles of the People is a good book.
8values
Political Compass
PolitiScales
I’m an American nationalist, ultra-capitalist, Kemalist, and First and Second Amendment extremist. Alexander Hamilton and Ronald Reagan are my gods and I will incessantly worship them.

No, basement dwellers of the world, communism does not work.

“If you are born poor, it’s not your mistake; but if you die poor, it’s your mistake.”

User avatar
Albrenia
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 16619
Founded: Aug 18, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby Albrenia » Mon May 07, 2018 2:30 pm

The Parkus Empire wrote:A word which is used quite frequently, but with different definitions by different users. Some people will use it very narrowly, others will say it includes leaders such as Franco and Dollfuss, and yet others will expand it so much to include the Soviet Union (which I frankly find ridiculous, as the Soviet Union was highly meritocratic and had an unprecedented degree of racial and gender equality, especially for the 1920's).

So what are the criteria of fascism? Feel free to post yours, but here are mine.

1. Totalitarian (not simply authoritarian).
2. Extremely socially conservative, with the caveat that the bond to the state is held to precede all the familial, communal and religious bonds, rather than the reverse.
3. Economically conservative (as opposed to liberal, or socialist).
4. Militaristic


I agree with your checklist, actually. That's pretty much the list I'd use with maybe an extra one just emphasising the nationalism aspect implied by point 2.

User avatar
The South Falls
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 13353
Founded: Oct 18, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby The South Falls » Mon May 07, 2018 2:31 pm

My characteristics are those already said. Totalitarianism, economic/social conservatism, and militarism, but I see another one. Reliance on a 'ultra-strong' leader, which will eventually die. Then, the nation collapses. Another characteristic is flags using red and black, in an abundance.
Last edited by The South Falls on Mon May 07, 2018 2:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
This is an MT nation that reflects some of my beliefs, trade deals and debate always welcome! Call me TeaSF. A level 8, according to This Index.


Political Compass Results:

Economic: -5.5
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -4.51
I make dumb jokes. I'm really serious about that.

User avatar
The Parkus Empire
Post Czar
 
Posts: 43030
Founded: Sep 12, 2005
Ex-Nation

Postby The Parkus Empire » Mon May 07, 2018 2:36 pm

Reikoku wrote:The best description I know of would be a totalitarian, militaristic, and patriarchal ideology which is centered around national rebirth while being strongly for vitalism and idealism in the face of Marxist materialism and liberal positivism. Corporatist and other organic economic bodies are supported over laissez-faire capitalism or collectivist communism. The best examples of this would be the Falange and Italian Fascist Party which fulfilled the entire criterion, while others such as Nazi Germany had numerous elements, but may not have completed them all.
The Parkus Empire wrote:2. Extremely socially conservative, with the caveat that the bond to the state is held to precede all the familial, communal and religious bonds, rather than the reverse.


Fascism is about as conservative as the Gorean subculture. It wants more children for the state, and is not afraid to violate institutions such as marriage in order to achieve this (Mussolini rewarded unwed couples and Himmler encouraged trysts between Waffen SS officers and native women in Nordic countries).

These are at most exceptions (with the first one an alternative to abortion and contraception) rather than defining policy. Unless the second was a winking way to encourage raping subjugated populations.
American Orthodox: one, holy, catholic, and apostolic church.
Jesus is Allah ن
Burkean conservative
Homophobic
Anti-feminist sexist
♂Copy and paste this in your sig if you passed biology and know men and women aren't the same.♀

User avatar
The South Falls
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 13353
Founded: Oct 18, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby The South Falls » Mon May 07, 2018 2:40 pm

The Parkus Empire wrote:
Reikoku wrote:The best description I know of would be a totalitarian, militaristic, and patriarchal ideology which is centered around national rebirth while being strongly for vitalism and idealism in the face of Marxist materialism and liberal positivism. Corporatist and other organic economic bodies are supported over laissez-faire capitalism or collectivist communism. The best examples of this would be the Falange and Italian Fascist Party which fulfilled the entire criterion, while others such as Nazi Germany had numerous elements, but may not have completed them all.

Fascism is about as conservative as the Gorean subculture. It wants more children for the state, and is not afraid to violate institutions such as marriage in order to achieve this (Mussolini rewarded unwed couples and Himmler encouraged trysts between Waffen SS officers and native women in Nordic countries).

These are at most exceptions (with the first one an alternative to abortion and contraception) rather than defining policy. Unless the second was a winking way to encourage raping subjugated populations.

It was a winking way to encourage that. I mean, if they wanted just more people making babies, they would have had more German women consensually having sex. But, they wanted to keep the men of the population that were not in camps, 'having their women used by the conquerors'. It makes one feel useless, and was a psych trick.
This is an MT nation that reflects some of my beliefs, trade deals and debate always welcome! Call me TeaSF. A level 8, according to This Index.


Political Compass Results:

Economic: -5.5
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -4.51
I make dumb jokes. I'm really serious about that.

User avatar
Kubumba Tribe
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 9444
Founded: Apr 09, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby Kubumba Tribe » Mon May 07, 2018 2:43 pm

My definition of fascism:
Extreme nationalism to the point of racism. Looking at others' responses, I guess dictatorship fits in too.
Pro: (Pan-)Islamism--Palestine--RBG--Choice to an extent--Giving land back to Native Americans--East--Afrika--etc.
Anti: US gov--West gov--Capitalism--Imperialism/Colonialism--Racism/White Supremacy--Secularism getting into everything--Western 'intervention' in the East--Zionism--etc.
I'm a New Afrikan Muslim :) https://www.16personalities.com/isfj-personality Sister nation of El-Amin Caliphate
Farnhamia wrote:A word of advice from your friendly neighborhood Mod, be careful how you use "kafir." It's derogatory usage by some people can get you in trouble unless you are very careful in setting the context for it's use.

This means we can use the word, just not in a bad way. So don't punish anyone who uses kafir.

User avatar
Cekoviu
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 16954
Founded: Oct 18, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby Cekoviu » Mon May 07, 2018 2:46 pm

I would consider fascism to be a highly nationalistic (often jingoist/imperialist), authoritarian, corporatist or syndicalist-leaning form of government, suppressing dissent and being heavily corrupt. Typically traditionalist, focusing on the ideal family as a representative of the country's superior culture.
Last edited by Cekoviu on Mon May 07, 2018 2:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
pro: women's rights
anti: men's rights

User avatar
Aureumterra
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 8521
Founded: Oct 25, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby Aureumterra » Mon May 07, 2018 2:46 pm

I feel Fascism and Nazism are two different things. For me, true Fascism is Mussolini’s style
NS Parliament: Aditya Sriraam - Unity and Consolidation Party
Latin American Political RP
RightValues
Icelandic Civic Nationalist and proud
I’m your average Íslandic NS player
I DO NOT USE NS STATS!
A 12 civilization, according to this index.
Scary Right Wing Capitalist who thinks the current state of the world (before the pandemic) is the best it had been

User avatar
The Parkus Empire
Post Czar
 
Posts: 43030
Founded: Sep 12, 2005
Ex-Nation

Postby The Parkus Empire » Mon May 07, 2018 2:46 pm

Kubumba Tribe wrote:My definition of fascism:
Extreme nationalism to the point of racism. Looking at others' responses, I guess dictatorship fits in too.

Do you believe all ethnic nationalism is fascism? For example, would you say Federalist Paper No. 2 is a fascist work?
American Orthodox: one, holy, catholic, and apostolic church.
Jesus is Allah ن
Burkean conservative
Homophobic
Anti-feminist sexist
♂Copy and paste this in your sig if you passed biology and know men and women aren't the same.♀

User avatar
Kubumba Tribe
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 9444
Founded: Apr 09, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby Kubumba Tribe » Mon May 07, 2018 2:49 pm

The Parkus Empire wrote:
Kubumba Tribe wrote:My definition of fascism:
Extreme nationalism to the point of racism. Looking at others' responses, I guess dictatorship fits in too.

Do you believe all ethnic nationalism is fascism?

Take note if where I said "extreme"
The Parkus Empire wrote:For example, would you say Federalist Paper No. 2 is a fascist work?

I've never read that before, so idk.
Pro: (Pan-)Islamism--Palestine--RBG--Choice to an extent--Giving land back to Native Americans--East--Afrika--etc.
Anti: US gov--West gov--Capitalism--Imperialism/Colonialism--Racism/White Supremacy--Secularism getting into everything--Western 'intervention' in the East--Zionism--etc.
I'm a New Afrikan Muslim :) https://www.16personalities.com/isfj-personality Sister nation of El-Amin Caliphate
Farnhamia wrote:A word of advice from your friendly neighborhood Mod, be careful how you use "kafir." It's derogatory usage by some people can get you in trouble unless you are very careful in setting the context for it's use.

This means we can use the word, just not in a bad way. So don't punish anyone who uses kafir.

User avatar
Cekoviu
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 16954
Founded: Oct 18, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby Cekoviu » Mon May 07, 2018 2:50 pm

Aureumterra wrote:I feel Fascism and Nazism are two different things. For me, true Fascism is Mussolini’s style

Nazism is heavily based off of Italian fascism, however, and contains very similar elements. It focuses more on ethnic identity than Mussiboi did, but otherwise seems like a German mirror version.
pro: women's rights
anti: men's rights

Next

Advertisement

Remove ads

Return to General

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bienenhalde, Deblar, Ethel mermania, Fartsniffage, General TN, La Paz de Los Ricos, Mergold-Aurlia, Merien, Nanatsu no Tsuki, Post War America, Shidei, The Kharkivan Cossacks, Thermodolia, Valentine Z, Varsemia

Advertisement

Remove ads