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NS History: You've Got Questions, We've Got Answers!

Talk about regional management and politics, raider/defender gameplay, and other game-related matters.
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Nakari
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Posts: 123
Founded: Feb 16, 2017
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Nakari » Fri Dec 29, 2017 2:17 am

Roavin wrote:NewTexas has a bunch of data dating back to May 2003. Maybe they have a nation list from Spain from August 2003.

The nation lists only cover the whole world, unfortunately. There's no way to sort by region.

It's really impressive how much has been learned from the internet archives. Nice job!
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Pax Nerdvana
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Founded: May 22, 2017
Anarchy

Postby Pax Nerdvana » Fri Dec 29, 2017 7:35 am

Nakari wrote:
Roavin wrote:NewTexas has a bunch of data dating back to May 2003. Maybe they have a nation list from Spain from August 2003.

The nation lists only cover the whole world, unfortunately. There's no way to sort by region.

It's really impressive how much has been learned from the internet archives. Nice job!

What site? I wish tere was some sort of regional archive of the most important things in regional history, such as showing updates to the WFE, and how it changes over time.
I am an American Christian male with an interest in a variety of topics, like SF, classic rock, guns, space travel, military history, and video games (Nintendo/retro). Franchises I like include Star Wars, Star Trek, and Transformers.
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Ammunition supply-chain (6.5x55 Swede and .303 British, although available, isn't exactly everywhere)
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Revolutionary Vanguardism
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Founded: Jul 16, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby Revolutionary Vanguardism » Fri Dec 29, 2017 8:46 am

Pax Nerdvana wrote:
Nakari wrote:The nation lists only cover the whole world, unfortunately. There's no way to sort by region.

It's really impressive how much has been learned from the internet archives. Nice job!

What site? I wish tere was some sort of regional archive of the most important things in regional history, such as showing updates to the WFE, and how it changes over time.
You might be interested in this.

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Pax Nerdvana
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Founded: May 22, 2017
Anarchy

Postby Pax Nerdvana » Fri Dec 29, 2017 8:55 am

Revolutionary Vanguardism wrote:
Pax Nerdvana wrote:What site? I wish tere was some sort of regional archive of the most important things in regional history, such as showing updates to the WFE, and how it changes over time.
You might be interested in this.

Where'd you find that?
I am an American Christian male with an interest in a variety of topics, like SF, classic rock, guns, space travel, military history, and video games (Nintendo/retro). Franchises I like include Star Wars, Star Trek, and Transformers.
Quotes
"The universe did never make sense; I suspect it was built on government contract."
-Robert Heinlein

"Affordability
Suitability (.22LR for squirrels, bigger .22s for long range little things, and big-bore for legal hunting reasons, etc)
Ammunition supply-chain (6.5x55 Swede and .303 British, although available, isn't exactly everywhere)
If it's ugly, uncomfortable, and can't shoot straight, but it accomplishes the above, then it's either a Mosin of a Hi-Point."
-Hurtful Thoughts on some stuff you want in a gun

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Revolutionary Vanguardism
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Founded: Jul 16, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby Revolutionary Vanguardism » Fri Dec 29, 2017 9:00 am

Pax Nerdvana wrote:
Revolutionary Vanguardism wrote:You might be interested in this.

Where'd you find that?
Theoretically, you could also find it by searching for 'WFE Recovery' in the NS Gameplay forum :p
Last edited by Revolutionary Vanguardism on Fri Dec 29, 2017 9:08 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Grazny Plorzkh
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Founded: Dec 29, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby Grazny Plorzkh » Fri Dec 29, 2017 9:09 am

So I just found out about nationstates and created my own state today. I adopted the state surveillance policy by accident because i'm a moron and would like to get rid of it. I haven't found an answer to this in the faq. Do I simply have to wait until the game gives me the opportunity to do so through the issues, or is there another way? I'm sorry if this is answered already somewhere, but like I said, I'm a moron so please be patient.

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Unibot III
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Founded: Mar 11, 2011
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Unibot III » Fri Dec 29, 2017 9:19 am

Nakari wrote:
Roavin wrote:NewTexas has a bunch of data dating back to May 2003. Maybe they have a nation list from Spain from August 2003.

The nation lists only cover the whole world, unfortunately. There's no way to sort by region.

It's really impressive how much has been learned from the internet archives. Nice job!


That having been said, I had a bit of a brainwave last night when I went to bed. NewTexas' data shows that Spain's regional population was 2 from at least Aug 17 to Aug 29 with a delegate, Beiriz. Logically, if Francos Spain was in Spain with NSUN membership, then Beiriz must have been in Spain with another NSUN member as his sole regional compatriot (probably Comunisgrado) during Aug 17-Aug 29.

  • This means that Francos Spain didn't leave his founder account in Spain when he left Spain. (Perhaps the account, Francos Spain was actually the founder account. In which case, Spain would be founderless in practice once he left in August - till mid September when it was hawked.)
  • This new evidence suggests an Aug 12-17 timeline for FS' departure from Spain to the Pacific. Consistent with the Aug 14-19 estimate, I gave or Unistrut's Aug 08-13.
  • It seems plausible Francos Spain was not that player's NSUN account prior to Aug 14. They were keeping it in Spain, a region they had hawked.




I also had another brainwave, if I use the Boneyard's dates of last activity, I can cross-reference them and confirm whether bursts of CTE's were probably an update or not.

The August 27 23:32 GMT update time I've cited is correct. Those nations were all last active twenty-eight days prior.
The August 30 09:32 GMT update time is also correct. Those nations were either active twenty-eight or sixty days prior.

Sooooo, this means TRR was updating at two very different times in the same week. Server issues seems likely, I suppose.
Last edited by Unibot III on Fri Dec 29, 2017 12:14 pm, edited 3 times in total.
[violet] wrote:I mean this in the best possible way,
but Unibot is not a typical NS player.
Milograd wrote:You're a caring, resolute lunatic
with the best of intentions.
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Unibot III
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Founded: Mar 11, 2011
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Unibot III » Fri Dec 29, 2017 10:59 am

Out of curiosity, I did a population dating analysis on Sudetenland using the same method as I did with Francos Spain.

Sudetenland, the first recorded delegate of the Pacific, was created February 8, 2003 ± 2 days.

Image
[Confidence Levels.]

The findings suggest that Sudetenland couldn't have been delegate of the Pacific until February. Which means Sudetenland was probably not even close to being the first delegate of the Pacific and, that we don't know who else was delegate of the Pacific between November 2002 and April 2003. To me this underscores just how poorly the Pacific was documented and why pre-Francos Pacific is such a challenge to record. The South Pacific was able to trace back delegates right up to their launch in January 2003 - more than a month before the person commonly cited as the first delegate of the Pacific was even created!

___________


I also did an analysis for Sagar, the first recorded delegate of the Rejected Realms; it showed he was created April 3 2003 ± 2 days.

EDIT: This post is PEAK UNIBOT. -_-
Last edited by Unibot III on Fri Dec 29, 2017 1:07 pm, edited 2 times in total.
[violet] wrote:I mean this in the best possible way,
but Unibot is not a typical NS player.
Milograd wrote:You're a caring, resolute lunatic
with the best of intentions.
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USS Monitor
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Founded: Jul 01, 2015
19th Century Iron Steamship

Postby USS Monitor » Fri Dec 29, 2017 11:47 am

Grazny Plorzkh wrote:So I just found out about nationstates and created my own state today. I adopted the state surveillance policy by accident because i'm a moron and would like to get rid of it. I haven't found an answer to this in the faq. Do I simply have to wait until the game gives me the opportunity to do so through the issues, or is there another way? I'm sorry if this is answered already somewhere, but like I said, I'm a moron so please be patient.


You have to wait until you get an opportunity to do it through issues.

The labeling on the forums is a little unclear about it, but Got Issues is more useful than Gameplay for this type of nation-management stuff. Gameplay is more into regional politics.
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Mallorea and Riva
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Benevolent Dictatorship

Postby Mallorea and Riva » Fri Dec 29, 2017 8:45 pm

I've transferred the OP of this thread to Unibot from Goober since he has long since CTE. Unibot is going to index the thread for future viewers and keep it up to date. Otherwise the thread will function as it normally does.
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Byzanthia
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Founded: Mar 08, 2014
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Byzanthia » Fri Dec 29, 2017 8:52 pm

I suppose that this is related to NS history, but is the New Pacific Order (NPO) of CyberNations affiliated with the NPO of NS? I've been reading up on the history of both organizations, but I can't tell if the two NPO's act independently of each other or if one NPO is just an extension of the other.
Last edited by Byzanthia on Fri Dec 29, 2017 8:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Hellenic Republic of Byzanthia | Ελληνική Δημοκρατία της Βυζαντινής | Ellinikí Dimokratía tis Vyzantinís

Death to tyranny! | Θάνατος στην τυραννία! | Thánatos stin tyrannía!

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Vulturret
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Founded: Aug 23, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby Vulturret » Fri Dec 29, 2017 8:54 pm

Byzanthia wrote:I suppose that this is related to NS history, but is the New Pacific Order (NPO) on CyberNations affiliated with the NPO of NS? I've been reading up on the history of both organizations, but I can't tell if the two NPO's act independently of each other or if one NPO is just as an extension of the other.

They are affiliated, they are run by the same people at the top, though each game has its own government. They share a Discord server, actually.
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Byzanthia
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Founded: Mar 08, 2014
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Byzanthia » Fri Dec 29, 2017 8:54 pm

Vulturret wrote:
Byzanthia wrote:I suppose that this is related to NS history, but is the New Pacific Order (NPO) on CyberNations affiliated with the NPO of NS? I've been reading up on the history of both organizations, but I can't tell if the two NPO's act independently of each other or if one NPO is just as an extension of the other.

They are affiliated, they are run by the same people at the top, though each game has its own government. They share a Discord server, actually.


Thanks for the info! :)
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Vulturret
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Founded: Aug 23, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby Vulturret » Fri Dec 29, 2017 8:58 pm

Byzanthia wrote:
Vulturret wrote:They are affiliated, they are run by the same people at the top, though each game has its own government. They share a Discord server, actually.


Thanks for the info! :)

Actually, I fed you fake news. They do share a Discord server, but NS NPO has their own actually. So there are two that are used in sync. The NS only one actually is more active, if what I've heard is true.
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Jar Wattinree
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Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Jar Wattinree » Fri Dec 29, 2017 9:19 pm

Byzanthia wrote:I suppose that this is related to NS history, but is the New Pacific Order (NPO) of CyberNations affiliated with the NPO of NS? I've been reading up on the history of both organizations, but I can't tell if the two NPO's act independently of each other or if one NPO is just an extension of the other.

The NS NPO came first with CN NPO starting as soon as CyberNations was launched. They're largely independent of one another due to the fact that the game platforms they're located on are completely different beasts, but there's plenty of cross-membership between the branches.
  • Governor of Province Ardere
  • Praetorian of the New Pacific Order
  • Council Elder of St Abbaddon
  • Game Warden of Forest
Tribune of the New Pacific Order


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Unibot III
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Founded: Mar 11, 2011
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Unibot III » Fri Dec 29, 2017 11:28 pm

Just leaving some notes for myself here because they're not related to my current research but they're interested and hard to come by facts:

  • InfernoIce is described by Myrth, a native (!), as an "evil dictatorship regime" that was "recently kicked out by the admins" in May. 1
  • The result of InfernoIce being unceremoniously booted on May 08 15:49:51 GMT was it created a power vacuum; you could have taken the delegacy of the Pacific with ten endorsements despite its massive WA population. The Atlantic Alliance (fresh from a victory in TWP) set its eyes on taking the Pacific and started trading endorsements.
  • In the meantime, the Wold assumed the Pacific's delegacy on May 08 with 10 Endos, 50 Endos on May 09, and that grew to a 150 by May 10. 2
  • Jell-O, the delegate who surpassed the Wold was Atlantic-affiliated. 3
  • A bit more information about the event that led to a Europeian taking TRR by accident: http://atlantic.proboards.com/thread/96 ... -liberated
  • New Omnivaro (Monrovia) asks whether he can have regional controls in Lazarus: https://nationstates.ermarian.net/jolt/1231/341357
  • Lots more info on New Omnivaro's reign: http://z8.invisionfree.com/Rejected_Rea ... wtopic=177

Also...

Unibot III wrote:I'm pretty confident after reading this post here that the Rejected Realms was founded on April 29, not April 27. I think that was just an error on someone's part transcribing Kandarin's IRC notes (Indeed, probably mine.) Everything matches with April 29 2003.


I was wrong, I've just found a very very ancient news report that confirms April 27 as the date of TRR's founding, not April 29.

The Incorporated States of Washington Post A/P Wire
April 28, 2003 3:330PM EST

The last few days have seen the NationStates world changed dramatically. New controls were placed into effect that allowed the regional UN delegates power to make password protected regions, eject nations from the region, and grant regional control to the current UN delegate. The Founder of a region shares the same power as the UN delegate but the founder can take the regional control away from the UN delegate.

In an obvious development, only newer regions share the power of regional control with the founder. Older regions have only the UN delegate as the regional controller. Most likely this is because there is no information in the world concerning who founded the region.

Nations ejected from a region wind up in a region entitled "The Rejected Realms". As of the writing of this article, one day after most regions got the power to eject nations, 145 nations have wound up in the rejected realms. Most regions are locking their doors through the password protection. Some have not yet implemented any control in their regions probably due to not knowing it exists.

There are a few older regions left that do not have a delegate due to the recent removal of multi UN nations supporting the delegate. These regions are being hotly contested as the first to be delegate will surely remove all competition by banning them. These battles are predicted to be over by Thursday.

There have been some reports concerning misuse of the banning feature purely to remove competition to the regional delicacy. One of the most blatant can be found in the North pacific where with 664 endorsements was booted by the sitting UN delegate because he/she was within 64 votes of gaining the delegate seat.

It appears as though NationStates will become a game of invitation only to the regions. role-players hail this as the best step forward for NationStates. Others look at it as a death sentence. Whatever your outlook, your world has changed, time to change with it.


As for this thread's OP: I received many a history lecture from Goober, so it comes as a great honour to be heading the thread now. As Mallorea says, I hope to create a functional index for this thread at some point in the immediate future. In the meantime, enjoy the total wonky historical data.
Last edited by Unibot III on Sun Jan 14, 2018 7:44 pm, edited 7 times in total.
[violet] wrote:I mean this in the best possible way,
but Unibot is not a typical NS player.
Milograd wrote:You're a caring, resolute lunatic
with the best of intentions.
Org. Join Date: 25/05/2008 | Former Delegate of The Rejected Realms | Gameplay Alignment: -18 / -13
Unibotian Factbook // An Analysis of NationStates Generations // The Gameplay Alignment Test // NS Weather // How do I join the UDL? // The Transpacific Trade
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Canton Empire
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Canton Empire » Sat Dec 30, 2017 11:16 am

Byzanthia wrote:I suppose that this is related to NS history, but is the New Pacific Order (NPO) of CyberNations affiliated with the NPO of NS? I've been reading up on the history of both organizations, but I can't tell if the two NPO's act independently of each other or if one NPO is just an extension of the other.

There was also a game called Pixel Nations that had an NPO branch, sadly that game collapsed because of Admin abuse and DDoS attacks in late 2014
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Pax Nerdvana
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Anarchy

Postby Pax Nerdvana » Sat Dec 30, 2017 12:18 pm

Canton Empire wrote:
Byzanthia wrote:I suppose that this is related to NS history, but is the New Pacific Order (NPO) of CyberNations affiliated with the NPO of NS? I've been reading up on the history of both organizations, but I can't tell if the two NPO's act independently of each other or if one NPO is just an extension of the other.

There was also a game called Pixel Nations that had an NPO branch, sadly that game collapsed because of Admin abuse and DDoS attacks in late 2014

DDoS?
I am an American Christian male with an interest in a variety of topics, like SF, classic rock, guns, space travel, military history, and video games (Nintendo/retro). Franchises I like include Star Wars, Star Trek, and Transformers.
Quotes
"The universe did never make sense; I suspect it was built on government contract."
-Robert Heinlein

"Affordability
Suitability (.22LR for squirrels, bigger .22s for long range little things, and big-bore for legal hunting reasons, etc)
Ammunition supply-chain (6.5x55 Swede and .303 British, although available, isn't exactly everywhere)
If it's ugly, uncomfortable, and can't shoot straight, but it accomplishes the above, then it's either a Mosin of a Hi-Point."
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Canton Empire
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Canton Empire » Sat Dec 30, 2017 12:30 pm

Pax Nerdvana wrote:
Canton Empire wrote:There was also a game called Pixel Nations that had an NPO branch, sadly that game collapsed because of Admin abuse and DDoS attacks in late 2014

DDoS?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Distrib ... ameservers
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Pax Nerdvana
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Anarchy

Postby Pax Nerdvana » Sat Dec 30, 2017 12:32 pm

I am an American Christian male with an interest in a variety of topics, like SF, classic rock, guns, space travel, military history, and video games (Nintendo/retro). Franchises I like include Star Wars, Star Trek, and Transformers.
Quotes
"The universe did never make sense; I suspect it was built on government contract."
-Robert Heinlein

"Affordability
Suitability (.22LR for squirrels, bigger .22s for long range little things, and big-bore for legal hunting reasons, etc)
Ammunition supply-chain (6.5x55 Swede and .303 British, although available, isn't exactly everywhere)
If it's ugly, uncomfortable, and can't shoot straight, but it accomplishes the above, then it's either a Mosin of a Hi-Point."
-Hurtful Thoughts on some stuff you want in a gun

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States of Glory
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Ex-Nation

Postby States of Glory » Sat Dec 30, 2017 4:36 pm

Unibot III wrote:Which means Sudetenland was probably not even close to being the first delegate of the Pacific and, that we don't know who else was delegate of the Pacific between November 2002 and April 2003.

Wouldn't the first Delegate of the Pacific have been the first Delegate in the history of the game? If so, the fact that we don't know who they are is incredibly frustrating.

I also have to wonder whether any of these ancient nations (apart from Myrth) are still active in some form. If hypothetically, at least one of these nations had a puppet that currently plays NS and we could track them down, it'd do us a whole world of good. Unfortunately, the chances of this happening are extremely slim. :(
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Parazzia
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Ex-Nation

Postby Parazzia » Sat Dec 30, 2017 7:30 pm

Probably already discovered, but: further proof of TSP's origin.

Wolfman, 01-01-2003, 04:17 PM
It won't let me make a country either.Tthe weird thing is that the error message says it's trying to make it in 'the south pacific' region which only has one member, rather than 'the pacific' which is where the FAQ says it should be created.

The URLs from 2002 are horrible... does anyone know of a record of changes in region/nation URLs over time?

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Rand AlThor
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Rand AlThor » Sat Dec 30, 2017 7:38 pm

Parazzia wrote:Probably already discovered, but: further proof of TSP's origin.

Wolfman, 01-01-2003, 04:17 PM
It won't let me make a country either.Tthe weird thing is that the error message says it's trying to make it in 'the south pacific' region which only has one member, rather than 'the pacific' which is where the FAQ says it should be created.

The URLs from 2002 are horrible... does anyone know of a record of changes in region/nation URLs over time?

That is the oldest reference I've ever seen to NS. How did you find that????
High King of The Westlands
Dragon Reborn
Car'a'carn of the Aiel
Discord ID: Rand Al'Thor#0029

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Parazzia
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Posts: 11
Founded: Dec 11, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Parazzia » Sat Dec 30, 2017 7:49 pm

Rand AlThor wrote:
Parazzia wrote:Probably already discovered, but: further proof of TSP's origin.

Wolfman, 01-01-2003, 04:17 PM
It won't let me make a country either.Tthe weird thing is that the error message says it's trying to make it in 'the south pacific' region which only has one member, rather than 'the pacific' which is where the FAQ says it should be created.

The URLs from 2002 are horrible... does anyone know of a record of changes in region/nation URLs over time?

That is the oldest reference I've ever seen to NS. How did you find that????

I was just googling "nationstates url change over time cgi bin". Complete accident :P

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Rand AlThor
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Posts: 13
Founded: Dec 19, 2017
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Rand AlThor » Sat Dec 30, 2017 8:02 pm

Now you've got me poking around, and I've found two old forum threads full about NS stuff if anyone wants to read them.
https://arstechnica.com/civis/viewtopic ... 2&t=471255
http://www.serebiiforums.com/showthread ... tionStates
http://boards.theforce.net/threads/nati ... .15529053/
http://www.hatrack.com/cgi-bin/ubbmain/ ... 019809;p=1 -Francos Spain is mentioned in this one on November 23, 2003
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=63&t=575 -13 pages of NS stuff here, that's a bit!
http://www.k6plus.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?p=8420
Last edited by Rand AlThor on Sat Dec 30, 2017 9:56 pm, edited 6 times in total.
High King of The Westlands
Dragon Reborn
Car'a'carn of the Aiel
Discord ID: Rand Al'Thor#0029

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