Left-Wing Discussion Thread III

[Democratic Communist Federation]

Renaissance art began focusing on Christ as purely human. For instance, in prior art depicting the creation of Adam, Christ (who was the canonical athropomorphic rendering of God) was shown to be doing it. With the Renaissance, there comes an old guy as God who looks nothing like Christ, which makes a hard distinction between Christ and God. A new aesthetic exalting flesh and sensuality (even in Christ) becomes dominant, as opposed to prior art which stressed abstraction, asceticism and modesty.

That was partially because Renaissance thinkers were influenced by the knowledge of the Arabs via the Crusades. They began focusing on the humanity of Christ (which, by the way, did not contradict the official position of the Roman Catholic Church), but they did not deny his divinity.

Arguably, the most left-of-center scholastic priest of the Middle Ages, William of Ockham, never renounced his faith. For a time, the Roman Catholic Church excommunicated William (mostly for arguing, in contemporary terms, for a unique place for the public sphere), but that excommunication was shortly reversed.

[The Parkus Empire]

Renaissance art began focusing on Christ as purely human. For instance, in prior art depicting the creation of Adam, Christ (who was the canonical athropomorphic rendering of God) was shown to be doing it. With the Renaissance, there comes an old guy as God who looks nothing like Christ, which makes a hard distinction between Christ and God. A new aesthetic exalting flesh and sensuality (even in Christ) becomes dominant, as opposed to prior art which stressed abstraction, asceticism and modesty.

That was partially because Renaissance thinkers were influenced by the knowledge of the Arabs via the Crusades. They began focusing on the humanity of Christ (which, by the way, did not contradict the official position of the Roman Catholic Church), but they did not deny his divinity.

Arguably, the most left-of-center scholastic priest of the period, William of Ockham, never renounced his faith. For a time, the Roman Catholic Church excommunicated William (mostly for arguing, in contemporary terms, for a unique place for the public sphere), but that excommunication was shortly reversed.

They did not deny his divinity doctrinally, but the art effectively did.

Yeah, old subversive Ockham, the propagator of nominalism, a truly wicked teaching

[Democratic Communist Federation]

They did not deny his divinity doctrinally, but the art effectively did.

Yeah, old subversive Ockham, the propagator of nominalism, a truly wicked teaching

How can art deny faith? That concept makes no sense to me. Some of my own poetry could be viewed, by some, as sacrilege, but I am a very religiously devout individual.

[The Parkus Empire]

They did not deny his divinity doctrinally, but the art effectively did.

Yeah, old subversive Ockham, the propagator of nominalism, a truly wicked teaching

How can art deny faith? That concept makes no sense to me. Some of my own poetry could be viewed, by some, as sacrilege, but I am a very religiously devout individual.

Art is expression. To say it cannot deny faith is to say expression cannot.

[Democratic Communist Federation]

Art is expression. To say it cannot deny faith is to say expression cannot.

That does not respond to my point.

[The Parkus Empire]

Art is expression. To say it cannot deny faith is to say expression cannot.

That does not respond to my point.

You do not have a point, you asked a question.

[Democratic Communist Federation]

You do not have a point, you asked a question.

Have you not been reading my extensive comments?

[The Parkus Empire]

You do not have a point, you asked a question.

Have you not been reading my extensive comments?

Yes, sort of like, "I practice freeloving sodomy on the weekends, yet I am strict about keeping Christian morality."

[Democratic Communist Federation]

Yes, sort of like, "I practice freeloving sodomy on the weekends, yet I am strict about keeping Christian morality."

? No, I do not engage in that practice you mentioned. No, I am not a Christian.

[Kubra]

Yes, sort of like, "I practice freeloving sodomy on the weekends, yet I am strict about keeping Christian morality."

? No, I do not engage in that practice you mentioned. No, I am not a Christian.

He is not saying you do, he is making an analogy.

[The Multiversal Communist Collective]

He is not saying you do, he is making an analogy.

Yes, but, for the record, I thought it was important that I point out I am neither a deviant nor a Christian (not that I am equating the two).

[The Multiversal Communist Collective]

Anyone who is interested in reading up on the satirical post-Posadism of this new nation I created can take a look at this page.

[The New Sea Territory]

Reason as paramount started in post-schism western theology, but it was not until the European Renaissance that reason became an endeavor autonomous from theology, which sparked the "Age of Reason" which culminated in a turn of reason against theology (the Enlightenment).

This undermines the Platonic roots of the theological debate about reason, which proceeds the theological conversation all together.

I think numerous Platonic dialogues make very clear his distinction between "myth" and "reason" (muthos and logos, respectively). Socrates privileges logos over muthos in positioning philosophy against rhetoric (Gorgias), common conceptions of love (Symposium), poetry (Republic), etc....something anti-Homeric and anti-Hesiodic by nature. Socrates even says he 'loves' Homer and looks forward to talking with him in the afterlife, but after reading enough of his arguments I can't help but feel he was sarcastic, because he talks about the ideal city banishing the majority of Homeric mythology because they don't line up with logos, by which he means they depict the gods as imperfect.

Capital-R Reason might not have been explicitly stated pre-schism, but it's presence as one of the defining abstractions of western thought, even to this day in various incarnations, cannot be understated. It's origins are far older than you seem to be talking about.

[The New Sea Territory]

On this day in 1973, Basque separatists from the ETA assassinated Franco's successor by blowing up his car on the way to mass, sending him 20 meters into the air.

Eusko Gudariak

[Kubra]

Reason as paramount started in post-schism western theology, but it was not until the European Renaissance that reason became an endeavor autonomous from theology, which sparked the "Age of Reason" which culminated in a turn of reason against theology (the Enlightenment).

This undermines the Platonic roots of the theological debate about reason, which proceeds the theological conversation all together.

I think numerous Platonic dialogues make very clear his distinction between "myth" and "reason" (muthos and logos, respectively). Socrates privileges logos over muthos in positioning philosophy against rhetoric (Gorgias), common conceptions of love (Symposium), poetry (Republic), etc....something anti-Homeric and anti-Hesiodic by nature. Socrates even says he 'loves' Homer and looks forward to talking with him in the afterlife, but after reading enough of his arguments I can't help but feel he was sarcastic, because he talks about the ideal city banishing the majority of Homeric mythology because they don't line up with logos, by which he means they depict the gods as imperfect.

Capital-R Reason might not have been explicitly stated pre-schism, but it's presence as one of the defining abstractions of western thought, even to this day in various incarnations, cannot be understated. It's origins are far older than you seem to be talking about.

careful now, there's debate on the socrates vs. 'socrates' debate

y'know, figuring out which is legit something socrates would say and what was just Plato using him as his dialogue character

[Crysuko]

On this day in 1973, Basque separatists from the ETA assassinated Franco's successor by blowing up his car on the way to mass, sending him 20 meters into the air.

Eusko Gudariak

Good on 'em, willing to bet that went towards helping spain rise out of fascism

[Democratic Communist Federation]

Good on 'em, willing to bet that went towards helping spain rise out of fascism

Antifa cannot afford to wait.

[War Gears]

On this day in 1973, Basque separatists from the ETA assassinated Franco's successor by blowing up his car on the way to mass, sending him 20 meters into the air.

Eusko Gudariak

I never knew Juan Carlos I died in a car bomb.

[Northern Davincia]

On this day in 1973, Basque separatists from the ETA assassinated Franco's successor by blowing up his car on the way to mass, sending him 20 meters into the air.

Eusko Gudariak

Good on 'em, willing to bet that went towards helping spain rise out of fascism

Franco wasn't all that bad.

Good on 'em, willing to bet that went towards helping spain rise out of fascism

Antifa cannot afford to wait.

They seem more eager to tip over trash cans.

[Crysuko]

Good on 'em, willing to bet that went towards helping spain rise out of fascism

Franco wasn't all that bad.

Antifa cannot afford to wait.

They seem more eager to tip over trash cans.

he ordered the deaths of over 100,000 CNT members, he absolutly was that bad

[Northern Davincia]

Franco wasn't all that bad.

They seem more eager to tip over trash cans.

he ordered the deaths of over 100,000 CNT members, he absolutly was that bad

Your point being...?

[Crysuko]

he ordered the deaths of over 100,000 CNT members, he absolutly was that bad

Your point being...?

[Democratic Communist Federation]

They seem more eager to tip over trash cans.

I have never tipped over a trash can.

[War Gears]

On this day in 1973, Basque separatists from the ETA assassinated Franco's successor by blowing up his car on the way to mass, sending him 20 meters into the air.

Eusko Gudariak

Good on 'em, willing to bet that went towards helping spain rise out of fascism

The political stagnation of the Falangist Party probably played a much bigger role than providing them a martyr.

[War Gears]

Your point being...?

But if he had been killing capitalists, you'd have been singing his praises.