by The Parkus Empire » Mon Dec 18, 2017 7:21 pm
by The Parkus Empire » Mon Dec 18, 2017 9:32 pm
by Conserative Morality » Mon Dec 18, 2017 10:32 pm
The Parkus Empire wrote:A thread for discussion of the Roman Republic as well as Empire.
So, for an opening topic, I ask: were Sulla's murders justified? I would say they harmed more than helped, since in the long run they paved the way for Caesar by setting an "above the law" precedent.
The Parkus Empire wrote:I think Augustus actually worsened the decline by his moral reforms.
by The Parkus Empire » Mon Dec 18, 2017 10:52 pm
Conserative Morality wrote:The Parkus Empire wrote:A thread for discussion of the Roman Republic as well as Empire.
So, for an opening topic, I ask: were Sulla's murders justified? I would say they harmed more than helped, since in the long run they paved the way for Caesar by setting an "above the law" precedent.
Sulla's murders weren't justified, but the whole era of the Republic was pretty fucked-up. Violence was the order of the day, from the Gracchi to Marius to Cato to Cicero to Caesar. I wouldn't put particular blame on him for a process that had started decades before him.The Parkus Empire wrote:I think Augustus actually worsened the decline by his moral reforms.
P. sure the Empire wasn't in decline by Augustus' time, though I disagree with his moral reforms for very different reasons.
by Conserative Morality » Mon Dec 18, 2017 10:58 pm
The Parkus Empire wrote:The difference is that Sulla was trying to conserve the republic.
Augustus certainly thought Roman morals had gone down the latrine.
by The East Marches II » Mon Dec 18, 2017 11:04 pm
by Farnhamia » Mon Dec 18, 2017 11:06 pm
by United Muscovite Nations » Mon Dec 18, 2017 11:06 pm
by The East Marches II » Mon Dec 18, 2017 11:10 pm
by Conserative Morality » Mon Dec 18, 2017 11:13 pm
The East Marches II wrote:Sulla internet defense force reporting in. Sulla did nothing wrong. Marian scum had overthrown the Republic, they were stabbing him in the back as he fought possibly the greatest foe Rome ever faced in the form of Mithridates. A war on two fronts. The Marian scum took advantage of Sulla's mercy the first time. He did not make a mistake the second time in a mass pardon. Marius didn't even bring in most of the reforms to the system. He just took the credit as he did for most of his career.
by Conserative Morality » Mon Dec 18, 2017 11:14 pm
The East Marches II wrote:Also a Daily Reminder Julian the Apostate threw the war with the Sassanid Empire and it speaks volumes he is the champion of edgy contrarians the world over even if some allegedly learned men like him.
by United Muscovite Nations » Mon Dec 18, 2017 11:14 pm
The Parkus Empire wrote:I think Augustus actually worsened the decline by his moral reforms.
by Conserative Morality » Mon Dec 18, 2017 11:16 pm
by United Muscovite Nations » Mon Dec 18, 2017 11:16 pm
Conserative Morality wrote:The East Marches II wrote:Also a Daily Reminder Julian the Apostate threw the war with the Sassanid Empire and it speaks volumes he is the champion of edgy contrarians the world over even if some allegedly learned men like him.
RIP the last wolf of Rome, learned and forward-thinking, a champion of the common people and a man who understood economics, killed by the poor advice of his generals and the overeagerness of youth. =^(
by The East Marches II » Mon Dec 18, 2017 11:18 pm
Conserative Morality wrote:The East Marches II wrote:Sulla internet defense force reporting in. Sulla did nothing wrong. Marian scum had overthrown the Republic, they were stabbing him in the back as he fought possibly the greatest foe Rome ever faced in the form of Mithridates. A war on two fronts. The Marian scum took advantage of Sulla's mercy the first time. He did not make a mistake the second time in a mass pardon. Marius didn't even bring in most of the reforms to the system. He just took the credit as he did for most of his career.
"Greatest foe"
Telling that one so chained in mind and spirit to Anatolia would lionize one of his own smh. To quote a REAL Roman: 'Veni, vidi, vici'.
by The East Marches II » Mon Dec 18, 2017 11:20 pm
Conserative Morality wrote:The East Marches II wrote:Also a Daily Reminder Julian the Apostate threw the war with the Sassanid Empire and it speaks volumes he is the champion of edgy contrarians the world over even if some allegedly learned men like him.
RIP the last wolf of Rome, learned and forward-thinking, a champion of the common people and a man who understood economics, killed by the poor advice of his generals and the overeagerness of youth. =^(
by Conserative Morality » Mon Dec 18, 2017 11:21 pm
United Muscovite Nations wrote:If he was so forward thinking, why did he listen to poor advice and get killed by his own overeagerness?
by Conserative Morality » Mon Dec 18, 2017 11:25 pm
The East Marches II wrote:>Understood economics
>Loses irreplaceable legions to hordes of disposable Persians
>"forward thinking"
"H-he was mislead by his generals is all"
He lost to the people with the worst historical KDR. He should have had his memory erased.
by The East Marches II » Mon Dec 18, 2017 11:26 pm
Conserative Morality wrote:The East Marches II wrote:>Understood economics
>Loses irreplaceable legions to hordes of disposable Persians
>"forward thinking"
"H-he was mislead by his generals is all"
He lost to the people with the worst historical KDR. He should have had his memory erased.
>> judging a man by one loss caused by his personal death
The legions he brought with him were damaged but not beyond hope or repair before his death. Also it is well-recorded that his generals told his Ctesiphon could not be taken like the cowards they were. Also also, the records show that he beat the Persians outside of Ctesiphon with nominal casualities amounting to a KDR of over 30-1.
by Conserative Morality » Mon Dec 18, 2017 11:28 pm
The East Marches II wrote:>Not beyond hope
>Lose your experienced officers
>Delet your middle command structure because you supposedly know better
>RIP half your forces
His generals told him not to be a Rambo wannabe. Julian screwed the pooch. Then he died like a punk without even having to live through the tragedy of his fuck up.
by The East Marches II » Mon Dec 18, 2017 11:32 pm
Conserative Morality wrote:The East Marches II wrote:>Not beyond hope
>Lose your experienced officers
>Delet your middle command structure because you supposedly know better
>RIP half your forces
His generals told him not to be a Rambo wannabe. Julian screwed the pooch. Then he died like a punk without even having to live through the tragedy of his fuck up.
>> "P-Persians are the weakest of enemies"
>> "J-Julians officers were right to say that a Roman army could not hope to beat a Persian one without overwhelming numerical superiority and also I am a traitor who should be thrown from the Tarpeian Rock"
Choose one.
by Conserative Morality » Mon Dec 18, 2017 11:35 pm
The East Marches II wrote:>attacking an entrenched foe with a Rambo army and no real supply lines because "lol what is securing my lines of communication"
Thats a stupid idea even against the weakest of foes anon.
by The East Marches II » Mon Dec 18, 2017 11:40 pm
Conserative Morality wrote:The East Marches II wrote:>attacking an entrenched foe with a Rambo army and no real supply lines because "lol what is securing my lines of communication"
Thats a stupid idea even against the weakest of foes anon.
Julian's fleet was more than adequate to supply his forces and Rome has a long history of defeating fools who put their faith in walls of stone over men of iron.
>> tfw you would have poorly advised Caesar to abandon the siege of Avaricum
It's like you don't even believe in Roman superiority over the barbarian masses.
by Conserative Morality » Mon Dec 18, 2017 11:43 pm
The East Marches II wrote:Caesar was an experienced battlefield commander with decades of leadership in shit spots under his belt. What did Julian have? I believe in tried and tested commanders, not babes favored because they wrote a few anti-Christian tracts and looked good in armor.
by Khanastan » Mon Dec 18, 2017 11:49 pm
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