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Left-Wing Discussion Thread III

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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What type of leftist are you?

Left-leaning Centrist
105
13%
Left/Social Liberal
74
9%
Social Democrat
115
14%
Democratic Socialist
139
17%
Marxist Communist
139
17%
Social Anarchist
50
6%
Individualist Anarchist
38
5%
Revolutionary Syndicalist
39
5%
Communalist
27
3%
Other (Please Post)
71
9%
 
Total votes : 797

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United Muscovite Nations
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Posts: 13505
Founded: Feb 01, 2017
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby United Muscovite Nations » Sat Dec 16, 2017 5:14 pm

Image

He was really gonna do it.
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Genivaria
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 59302
Founded: Mar 29, 2011
Moralistic Democracy

Postby Genivaria » Sat Dec 16, 2017 5:15 pm

Bakery Hill wrote:
Genivaria wrote:For remaining on the East coast? Yeah not likely.
And I'm not justifying anything.

> Parkus condemns purchase because of all the genocide.
"No it needed to happen regardless."

Sorry but I can't read that exchange any other way.

That's your problem then, I'm not going to humor your accusation that I'm 'justifying genocide'.
Last edited by Genivaria on Sat Dec 16, 2017 5:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
General Sherman did nothing wrong, fact.
Cultural nationalist, Social Democrat.

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The Parkus Empire
Post Czar
 
Posts: 43030
Founded: Sep 12, 2005
Ex-Nation

Postby The Parkus Empire » Sat Dec 16, 2017 5:17 pm

Sanctissima wrote:
The Parkus Empire wrote:SiOC meant "let's not declare war on the whole planet," not that Stalin stopped supportioning internationalism


The entire point was to unite the world under the leadership of the USSR, not to kill off the country.

Sacrificing the USSR for any reason whatsoever would have been antithetical to Stalin's ideals.

The USSR was a federation of socialist countries, not one. Stalin was not a Russian, for instance.
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Bakery Hill
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Posts: 11160
Founded: Jul 03, 2016
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Bakery Hill » Sat Dec 16, 2017 5:17 pm

Sanctissima wrote:
Bakery Hill wrote:It would have probably been a better country for it. But if you want to try and justify genocide in a leftist fashion don't let me stop you.


It probably would have been retaken by the British in such a scenario.

But since you're so quick to judge, kindly remind me how Australia didn't do the exact same thing with its own Aboriginal population. :^)

I'm not coming to this from a point of nationalism friend. I know that perfectly well.

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The Widening Gyre
Diplomat
 
Posts: 949
Founded: Jun 01, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby The Widening Gyre » Sat Dec 16, 2017 5:18 pm

The Parkus Empire wrote:
The Widening Gyre wrote:
The John McCain of late republican Rome was an inheritor of an older Greek tradition. If he should get credit for anything, it's the historical happenstance that lead to his discovery in the Renaissance.

Eh, John McCain is about foreign wars, whereas Cicreo said fighting wars except to protect allies was destroying Rome. But yeah, his identification of humanity with God, and seeing each human as a piece, is older tradition; and yes, his rediscovery was why he was so influntial.


Which is really the point I'm making here. If you're going to give credit to anyone, give it to Petrarch. It's not like he didn't deserve it.
anarchist communist, deep ecologist and agrarianist sympathizer

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The East Marches II
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Posts: 13734
Founded: Mar 11, 2017
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby The East Marches II » Sat Dec 16, 2017 5:19 pm

United Muscovite Nations wrote:(Image)

He was really gonna do it.


W-what about his super navy plan to destroy the Western powers, d-don't forget that
On vacation in 【Dubrovnik】
Will return if not killed by 【Montenegrins】

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Sanctissima
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 8486
Founded: Jul 16, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby Sanctissima » Sat Dec 16, 2017 5:20 pm

The Parkus Empire wrote:
Sanctissima wrote:
The entire point was to unite the world under the leadership of the USSR, not to kill off the country.

Sacrificing the USSR for any reason whatsoever would have been antithetical to Stalin's ideals.

The USSR was a federation of socialist countries, not one. Stalin was not a Russian, for instance.


Then would you kindly clarify your initial assertion that Stalin would have willingly sacrificed his country for the sake of international Communism?

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United Muscovite Nations
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Posts: 13505
Founded: Feb 01, 2017
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby United Muscovite Nations » Sat Dec 16, 2017 5:20 pm

The East Marches II wrote:
United Muscovite Nations wrote:(Image)

He was really gonna do it.


W-what about his super navy plan to destroy the Western powers, d-don't forget that

Yes, that was a real thing. Planned to build 15 battleships, started on 4 before they got invaded.
Formerly United Marxist Nations, Dec 02, 2011- Feb 01, 2017. +33,837 posts Eastern Orthodox Christian. Christian Agrarianist. Supporter of Pan-Arabism. Anti-Imperialist. Peak Larper.
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Bakery Hill
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Posts: 11160
Founded: Jul 03, 2016
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Bakery Hill » Sat Dec 16, 2017 5:21 pm

Genivaria wrote:
Bakery Hill wrote:> Parkus condemns purchase because of all the genocide.
"No it needed to happen regardless."

Sorry but I can't read that exchange any other way.

That's your problem then, I'm not going to humor your accusation that I'm 'justifying genocide'.

I can rephrase if you think that's unfair. Which matters more to you? Manifest Destiny or avoiding genocide? Parkus clear chose the latter. What's your choice?
Last edited by Bakery Hill on Sat Dec 16, 2017 5:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Sanctissima
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Posts: 8486
Founded: Jul 16, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby Sanctissima » Sat Dec 16, 2017 5:21 pm

Bakery Hill wrote:
Sanctissima wrote:
It probably would have been retaken by the British in such a scenario.

But since you're so quick to judge, kindly remind me how Australia didn't do the exact same thing with its own Aboriginal population. :^)

I'm not coming to this from a point of nationalism friend. I know that perfectly well.


Fair enough.

Just wanted to point out that America is hardly some unique boogeyman when it comes to the conquest of native tribes.

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The East Marches II
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Founded: Mar 11, 2017
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby The East Marches II » Sat Dec 16, 2017 5:23 pm

United Muscovite Nations wrote:
The East Marches II wrote:
W-what about his super navy plan to destroy the Western powers, d-don't forget that

Yes, that was a real thing. Planned to build 15 battleships, started on 4 before they got invaded.


D-did we get saved by Adolfo?
On vacation in 【Dubrovnik】
Will return if not killed by 【Montenegrins】

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The Parkus Empire
Post Czar
 
Posts: 43030
Founded: Sep 12, 2005
Ex-Nation

Postby The Parkus Empire » Sat Dec 16, 2017 5:23 pm

Sanctissima wrote:
The Parkus Empire wrote:The USSR was a federation of socialist countries, not one. Stalin was not a Russian, for instance.


Then would you kindly clarify your initial assertion that Stalin would have willingly sacrificed his country for the sake of international Communism?

Russia or any other number. The USSR was about socialism, not any particular country. It could hypothetically have been comprised of North America even if the Eastern bloc perished.
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United Muscovite Nations
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 13505
Founded: Feb 01, 2017
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby United Muscovite Nations » Sat Dec 16, 2017 5:24 pm

The East Marches II wrote:
United Muscovite Nations wrote:Yes, that was a real thing. Planned to build 15 battleships, started on 4 before they got invaded.


D-did we get saved by Adolfo?

Possibly. Had Hitler not been crazy, it's likely the Soviet Union would have revved up its tanks in 1943 or later and struck the Axis in Eastern Europe. It's hard to say how well the Axis would hold up to that, but if Red Army force increases continued at those rates, it's unlikely the Axis would have won the war.
Formerly United Marxist Nations, Dec 02, 2011- Feb 01, 2017. +33,837 posts Eastern Orthodox Christian. Christian Agrarianist. Supporter of Pan-Arabism. Anti-Imperialist. Peak Larper.
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Sanctissima
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Posts: 8486
Founded: Jul 16, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby Sanctissima » Sat Dec 16, 2017 5:25 pm

The Parkus Empire wrote:
Sanctissima wrote:
Then would you kindly clarify your initial assertion that Stalin would have willingly sacrificed his country for the sake of international Communism?

Russia or any other number. The USSR was about socialism, not any particular country. It could hypothetically have been comprised of North America even if the Eastern bloc perished.


That's rather nonsensical.

It lived and died with the Russian SSR. Without it, there was no USSR. Hence, to tie it back in with the initial conversation, why Stalin's purges of the military were thoroughly detrimental to the USSR, even from a strictly pragmatic perspective.

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Sanctissima
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 8486
Founded: Jul 16, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby Sanctissima » Sat Dec 16, 2017 5:29 pm

United Muscovite Nations wrote:
The East Marches II wrote:
D-did we get saved by Adolfo?

Possibly. Had Hitler not been crazy, it's likely the Soviet Union would have revved up its tanks in 1943 or later and struck the Axis in Eastern Europe. It's hard to say how well the Axis would hold up to that, but if Red Army force increases continued at those rates, it's unlikely the Axis would have won the war.


Eh, I figure the USSR would have had quite a deal of domestic trouble as a result of young men being sent to die against the German war machine by the thousands.

Keep in mind that it took a foreign aggressor practicing literal genocide to force the Ukrainians, amongst several other major groups, to consider rule by the USSR preferable to complete and utter annihilation by the Nazis. And even then, many Ukrainians opted for the Nazis anyway.

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The Parkus Empire
Post Czar
 
Posts: 43030
Founded: Sep 12, 2005
Ex-Nation

Postby The Parkus Empire » Sat Dec 16, 2017 5:29 pm

Sanctissima wrote:
The Parkus Empire wrote:Russia or any other number. The USSR was about socialism, not any particular country. It could hypothetically have been comprised of North America even if the Eastern bloc perished.


That's rather nonsensical.

It lived and died with the Russian SSR. Without it, there was no USSR. Hence, to tie it back in with the initial conversation, why Stalin's purges of the military were thoroughly detrimental to the USSR, even from a strictly pragmatic perspective.

It was a gamble. Stalin felt crypto-whites were the biggest danger, though
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Sanctissima
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Posts: 8486
Founded: Jul 16, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby Sanctissima » Sat Dec 16, 2017 5:32 pm

The Parkus Empire wrote:
Sanctissima wrote:
That's rather nonsensical.

It lived and died with the Russian SSR. Without it, there was no USSR. Hence, to tie it back in with the initial conversation, why Stalin's purges of the military were thoroughly detrimental to the USSR, even from a strictly pragmatic perspective.

It was a gamble. Stalin felt crypto-whites were the biggest danger, though


A gamble worth taking.

Other methods were available that didn't involve cuckolding the entire military structure.

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Bakery Hill
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 11160
Founded: Jul 03, 2016
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Bakery Hill » Sat Dec 16, 2017 5:32 pm

The Parkus Empire wrote:
Sanctissima wrote:
That's rather nonsensical.

It lived and died with the Russian SSR. Without it, there was no USSR. Hence, to tie it back in with the initial conversation, why Stalin's purges of the military were thoroughly detrimental to the USSR, even from a strictly pragmatic perspective.

It was a gamble. Stalin felt crypto-whites were the biggest danger, though

And Poles. And Ukrainians. And Chechens, Ingush, Tartars, Kalmyks, Greeks, Germans of course shit how much time have we got?

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The Parkus Empire
Post Czar
 
Posts: 43030
Founded: Sep 12, 2005
Ex-Nation

Postby The Parkus Empire » Sat Dec 16, 2017 5:35 pm

The Widening Gyre wrote:
The Parkus Empire wrote:Eh, John McCain is about foreign wars, whereas Cicreo said fighting wars except to protect allies was destroying Rome. But yeah, his identification of humanity with God, and seeing each human as a piece, is older tradition; and yes, his rediscovery was why he was so influntial.


Which is really the point I'm making here. If you're going to give credit to anyone, give it to Petrarch. It's not like he didn't deserve it.

No, I think I will still credit Cicero, since his elegance was key to the spread of the ideas.
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The Parkus Empire
Post Czar
 
Posts: 43030
Founded: Sep 12, 2005
Ex-Nation

Postby The Parkus Empire » Sat Dec 16, 2017 5:36 pm

Bakery Hill wrote:
The Parkus Empire wrote:It was a gamble. Stalin felt crypto-whites were the biggest danger, though

And Poles. And Ukrainians. And Chechens, Ingush, Tartars, Kalmyks, Greeks, Germans of course shit how much time have we got?

Stalin did not believe murder was wrong, so he needed little pretense.
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United Muscovite Nations
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Posts: 13505
Founded: Feb 01, 2017
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby United Muscovite Nations » Sat Dec 16, 2017 5:36 pm

Bakery Hill wrote:
The Parkus Empire wrote:It was a gamble. Stalin felt crypto-whites were the biggest danger, though

And Poles. And Ukrainians. And Chechens, Ingush, Tartars, Kalmyks, Greeks, Germans of course shit how much time have we got?

Ukrainians didn't get off any worse than anyone else, tbh.
Formerly United Marxist Nations, Dec 02, 2011- Feb 01, 2017. +33,837 posts Eastern Orthodox Christian. Christian Agrarianist. Supporter of Pan-Arabism. Anti-Imperialist. Peak Larper.
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The Parkus Empire
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Posts: 43030
Founded: Sep 12, 2005
Ex-Nation

Postby The Parkus Empire » Sat Dec 16, 2017 5:38 pm

Sanctissima wrote:
The Parkus Empire wrote:It was a gamble. Stalin felt crypto-whites were the biggest danger, though


A gamble worth taking.

Other methods were available that didn't involve cuckolding the entire military structure.

You say it was worth taking, but if a Bonaparte appeared you would say, "inevitable".
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United Muscovite Nations
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Founded: Feb 01, 2017
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby United Muscovite Nations » Sat Dec 16, 2017 5:39 pm

Sanctissima wrote:
The Parkus Empire wrote:It was a gamble. Stalin felt crypto-whites were the biggest danger, though


A gamble worth taking.

Other methods were available that didn't involve cuckolding the entire military structure.

The military structure was awful. More people were purged for being drunk on the job than for political reasons.
Formerly United Marxist Nations, Dec 02, 2011- Feb 01, 2017. +33,837 posts Eastern Orthodox Christian. Christian Agrarianist. Supporter of Pan-Arabism. Anti-Imperialist. Peak Larper.
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Bakery Hill
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Posts: 11160
Founded: Jul 03, 2016
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Bakery Hill » Sat Dec 16, 2017 5:42 pm

United Muscovite Nations wrote:
Bakery Hill wrote:And Poles. And Ukrainians. And Chechens, Ingush, Tartars, Kalmyks, Greeks, Germans of course shit how much time have we got?

Ukrainians didn't get off any worse than anyone else, tbh.

As an ethnic groups they got off better than others really.

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Bakery Hill
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Posts: 11160
Founded: Jul 03, 2016
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Bakery Hill » Sat Dec 16, 2017 5:43 pm

United Muscovite Nations wrote:
Sanctissima wrote:
A gamble worth taking.

Other methods were available that didn't involve cuckolding the entire military structure.

The military structure was awful. More people were purged for being drunk on the job than for political reasons.

I've heard 101 justification for this by Stalinists. The best I heard was that Stalin was trying to eliminate rape culture in the Red Army.

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