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Trump just recognized Jerusalem as Israel's Capital

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

Do you approve or disapprove of this action?

Approve(Like Israel)
193
31%
Approve(Dislike Israel)
21
3%
Approve(Neutral)
42
7%
Unsure(Like Israel)
25
4%
Unsure(Dislike Israel)
14
2%
Unsure(Neutral on Israel)
44
7%
Disapprove(Like Israel)
70
11%
Disapprove(Hate Israel)
94
15%
Disapprove(Neutral on Israel)
125
20%
 
Total votes : 628

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Deian salazar
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Trump just recognized Jerusalem as Israel's Capital

Postby Deian salazar » Wed Dec 06, 2017 1:07 pm

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/06/world/middleeast/trump-jerusalem-israel-capital.html
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/donald-trump-jerusalem-israel-capital-turkey-organization-islamic-cooperation/

Yup. Trump did it. The madman did it. He's caused another unnecessary crisis, just like Yemen and Qatar.
Yes I am aware of the argument for doing it, but this will cause another diplomatic crisis even if they stay our allies, it will strain ties further.
I personally think one of 4 things will happen:

1: Diplomatic crisis that makes USA be seen as enemy of Islam by many people but still an ally of many Muslim governments.(Most likely)
2: Cause a holy war(Extremely unlikely but possible if things get bad enough. Not impossible, but quite implausible.).
3: Many Muslim states cut off all ties with USA(Still pretty unlikely but more likely than the Holy War.)
4: Some Muslim states limit access to oil and use that as leverage(Unsure of this, it is a major Saud money-maker and they may be quite hesitant to do it, but it's not impossible realistically. Could still happen. Slightly but not much more likely than the Holy War.)
Either way, this is going to cause issue with the Israel-Palestinian peace process, in my personal opinion and result in another unneeded crisis, even if you support Israel strongly, you gotta agree this is another headache not worth creating.
To me he f*cked up, I'd have said this of any President, whether I liked Muslims or not this is strategically a poor move.
Last edited by Deian salazar on Fri Dec 08, 2017 1:49 pm, edited 4 times in total.

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The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp
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Postby The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp » Wed Dec 06, 2017 1:14 pm

1. I don't get the outrage? Isn't Jeruslam Israel capital?

2.Why is this not in the Trump thread?
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Deian salazar
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Postby Deian salazar » Wed Dec 06, 2017 1:15 pm

The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp wrote:1. I don't get the outrage? Isn't Jeruslam Israel capital?

2.Why is this not in the Trump thread?

1: Not officially. Edit: Though now it is officially to the USA. But no other nation has recognized it as that as the Muslims don't want it to be seen that way.

2: This is a big enough subject to be it's own thread imo. It's one of the biggest crises in recent history due to it's religious and political significance.
Last edited by Deian salazar on Wed Dec 06, 2017 1:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Hinodia
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Postby Hinodia » Wed Dec 06, 2017 1:16 pm

The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp wrote:1. I don't get the outrage? Isn't Jeruslam Israel capital?

I guess this might cause a bit of conflict, because Jerusalem is, from my understanding, not meant to be claimed by any one group. Tel Aviv is generally more recognized as an Israeli capital among the Arab states, though the issue is complicated and distinct enough that this can be debated.
Last edited by Hinodia on Wed Dec 06, 2017 1:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Aillyria
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Postby Aillyria » Wed Dec 06, 2017 1:17 pm

This is one of Trump's dumbest moves, now he'll have the hatred of most of the world's muslim, even here in the States. More elite support for the fake nation of Israel.
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The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp
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Postby The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp » Wed Dec 06, 2017 1:18 pm

Deian salazar wrote:
The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp wrote:1. I don't get the outrage? Isn't Jeruslam Israel capital?

2.Why is this not in the Trump thread?

1: Not officially. Edit: Though now it is officially to the USA. But no other nation has recognized it as that as the Muslims don't want it to be seen that way.

2: This is a big enough subject to be it's own thread imo. It's one of the biggest crises in recent history due to it's religious and political significance.



1: Ok...

2: It isn't? Trump says alot of shit that isn't true. Or is weird. Or stupid. This is just another one of those.
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United Muscovite Nations
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Postby United Muscovite Nations » Wed Dec 06, 2017 1:19 pm

The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp wrote:1. I don't get the outrage? Isn't Jeruslam Israel capital?

2.Why is this not in the Trump thread?

1) Because Jerusalem is occupied territory and not recognized as part of Israel by international law.

I presume the Alt Right will now circumcise themselves and convert to Judaism in honor of "based Donald" and the "based Jews".
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Trumptonium
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Postby Trumptonium » Wed Dec 06, 2017 1:20 pm

Good.

Though the 3 sites (Holy Sepulchre, Dome and Wailing Wall) should become governed by the UN with free access to everybody.

But Jerusalem is and should remain Israel's capital, recognised by all.

Anything that pisses off the Islamic world is just a bonus, and anything that enrages European & American Muslims to rage and riot is politically beneficial.
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Postby The Alma Mater » Wed Dec 06, 2017 1:20 pm

Trumptonium wrote:But Jerusalem is and should remain Israel's capital, recognised by all.


"All" currently consisting of exactly two countries.
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United Muscovite Nations
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Postby United Muscovite Nations » Wed Dec 06, 2017 1:21 pm

The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp wrote:
Deian salazar wrote:1: Not officially. Edit: Though now it is officially to the USA. But no other nation has recognized it as that as the Muslims don't want it to be seen that way.

2: This is a big enough subject to be it's own thread imo. It's one of the biggest crises in recent history due to it's religious and political significance.



1: Ok...

2: It isn't? Trump says alot of shit that isn't true. Or is weird. Or stupid. This is just another one of those.

2) Turkey, Egypt, Palestine, Jordan, and Iraq both warned Trump of "dangerous consequences" if he went through with it, so this is a major happening depending on how those powers react.
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The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp
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Postby The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp » Wed Dec 06, 2017 1:21 pm

United Muscovite Nations wrote:I presume the Alt Right will now circumcise themselves and convert to Judaism in honor of "based Donald" and the "based Jews".


Good. Let the alt right and the neo nazis fight each other.

No matter who wins, we win.
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Deian salazar
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Postby Deian salazar » Wed Dec 06, 2017 1:21 pm

The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp wrote:
Deian salazar wrote:1: Not officially. Edit: Though now it is officially to the USA. But no other nation has recognized it as that as the Muslims don't want it to be seen that way.

2: This is a big enough subject to be it's own thread imo. It's one of the biggest crises in recent history due to it's religious and political significance.



1: Ok...

2: It isn't? Trump says alot of shit that isn't true. Or is weird. Or stupid. This is just another one of those.

This is a huge crisis. Bigger than even the Qatar Crisis, possible as big as the Syrian crisis. It may not seem that way to you but if you look at it from a geopolitical perspective with the history and goals and beliefs of these nations in mind you'd realize this could cause the biggest crisis since the cuban missile crisis.
Edit: Though maybe not as nuclear or world-ending.
Last edited by Deian salazar on Wed Dec 06, 2017 1:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby Topoliani » Wed Dec 06, 2017 1:22 pm

Aillyria wrote: More elite support for the fake nation of Israel.

Last time I checked Israel is a nation with its own army, government, land, and seat in the UN. (Not required for a nation, but pretty convincing evidence that it is)
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Chunmei
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Postby Chunmei » Wed Dec 06, 2017 1:23 pm

Oh well, peace was overrated anyway.

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Temacht
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Postby Temacht » Wed Dec 06, 2017 1:23 pm

The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp wrote:
Deian salazar wrote:1: Not officially. Edit: Though now it is officially to the USA. But no other nation has recognized it as that as the Muslims don't want it to be seen that way.

2: This is a big enough subject to be it's own thread imo. It's one of the biggest crises in recent history due to it's religious and political significance.



1: Ok...

2: It isn't? Trump says alot of shit that isn't true. Or is weird. Or stupid. This is just another one of those.


This is less said, more done. Every six months since Congress passed a bill to move the embassy to Jerusalem in 1995, the president has the option to defer moving the embassy, however Trump is choosing not to defer movement.
Last edited by Temacht on Wed Dec 06, 2017 1:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby RepubblicaItaliano » Wed Dec 06, 2017 1:24 pm

Ladies and gents a shitstorm is a brewing, I hope you brought your umbrella.
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The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp
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Postby The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp » Wed Dec 06, 2017 1:24 pm

Deian salazar wrote:
The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp wrote:

1: Ok...

2: It isn't? Trump says alot of shit that isn't true. Or is weird. Or stupid. This is just another one of those.

This is a huge crisis. Bigger than even the Qatar Crisis, possible as big as the Syrian crisis. It may not seem that way to you but if you look at it from a geopolitical perspective with the history and goals and beliefs of these nations in mind you'd realize this could cause the biggest crisis since the cuban missile crisis.
Edit: Though maybe not as nuclear or world-ending.


Trump said something stupid. Bears shit in woods. Watersides are fun.

This is not a crises this is just something dumb.
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Dytarma
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Postby Dytarma » Wed Dec 06, 2017 1:24 pm

The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp wrote:1. I don't get the outrage? Isn't Jeruslam Israel capital?

2.Why is this not in the Trump thread?

It is indeed, that's like me saying Moscow is Russia's capital.

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Cyrothica
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Postby Cyrothica » Wed Dec 06, 2017 1:24 pm

Jerusalem was always Israel's capital, and I find it more sadistic to carve up a sovereign nation to appease it's neighbors than to cause a "diplomatic crisis".

And you should probably place this in the Trump thread just to be safe to be honest.
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Deian salazar
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Postby Deian salazar » Wed Dec 06, 2017 1:25 pm

Trumptonium wrote:Good.

Though the 3 sites (Holy Sepulchre, Dome and Wailing Wall) should become governed by the UN with free access to everybody.

But Jerusalem is and should remain Israel's capital, recognised by all.

Anything that pisses off the Islamic world is just a bonus, and anything that enrages European & American Muslims to rage and riot is politically beneficial.

...Do you know anything about geopolitics? Not meant as an insult, just asking.
This could be used by Russia and China to curry Muslim favor by opposing the action. Russia less likely due to ties with Israel, China more likely. This could(But likely won't) cause WW3, but it's the most likely of any immediate crisis to do so. And this is a world war we cannot win due to all the oil being on the opposing side. If Russia remains opportunistic, they'll use this to deal us a humiliating defeat even if they remain neutral and force us to make concessions.

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United Muscovite Nations
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Postby United Muscovite Nations » Wed Dec 06, 2017 1:25 pm

Cyrothica wrote:Jerusalem was always Israel's capital, and I find it more sadistic to carve up a sovereign nation to appease it's neighbors than to cause a "diplomatic crisis".

And you should probably place this in the Trump thread just to be safe to be honest.

Israel carved up Palestine, not the other way around.
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Postby Sanctissima » Wed Dec 06, 2017 1:26 pm

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Arlenton
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Postby Arlenton » Wed Dec 06, 2017 1:26 pm

President recognizes Israel's actual capital. Sounds pretty good to me.
Last edited by Arlenton on Wed Dec 06, 2017 1:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Deian salazar
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Postby Deian salazar » Wed Dec 06, 2017 1:27 pm

The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp wrote:
Deian salazar wrote:This is a huge crisis. Bigger than even the Qatar Crisis, possible as big as the Syrian crisis. It may not seem that way to you but if you look at it from a geopolitical perspective with the history and goals and beliefs of these nations in mind you'd realize this could cause the biggest crisis since the cuban missile crisis.
Edit: Though maybe not as nuclear or world-ending.


Trump said something stupid. Bears shit in woods. Watersides are fun.

This is not a crises this is just something dumb.


It is. It has vast consequences. Sorry but saying dumb stuff can cause crises. And official recognition as well.
This would be like recognizing Raqqa as ISIS's capital in 2014 if ISIS had hostile relations with it's neighbors and they didn't recognize it but somehow wasn't at war. They hate them, it'd cause a crisis. Same thing if the USA recognized the Kurds, or Catalans.

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Postby Kennlind » Wed Dec 06, 2017 1:27 pm

Deian salazar wrote:https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/06/world/middleeast/trump-jerusalem-israel-capital.html
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/donald-trump-jerusalem-israel-capital-turkey-organization-islamic-cooperation/

Yup. Trump did it. The madman did it. He's caused another unnecessary crisis, just like Yemen and Qatar.
Yes I am aware of the argument for doing it, but this will cause another diplomatic crisis even if they stay our allies, it will strain ties further.
I personally think one of 4 things will happen:

1: Diplomatic crisis that makes USA be seen as enemy of Islam by many people but still an ally of many Muslim governments.(Most likely)
2: Cause a holy war(Extremely unlikely but possible if things get bad enough. Not impossible, but quite implausible.).
3: Many Muslim states cut off all ties with USA(Still pretty unlikely but more likely than the Holy War.)
4: Some Muslim states limit access to oil and use that as leverage(Unsure of this, it is a major Saud money-maker and they may be quite hesitant to do it, but it's not impossible realistically. Could still happen. Slightly but not much more likely than the Holy War.)
Either way, this is going to cause issue with the Israel-Palestinian peace process, in my personal opinion and result in another unneeded crisis, even if you support Israel strongly, you gotta agree this is another headache not worth creating.
To me he f*cked up, I'd have said this of any President, whether I liked Muslims or not this is strategically a poor move.

What? How did he cause the crises in Yemen and Qatar? The Arab Spring was backed by OBAMA's government.

1. They've been seen as an enemy of Islam for at least two decades
2. Yes that's totally gonna happen
3. Not gonna happen
4. Not gonna happen

He did not fuck up. He did what was right: supporting Israel against Hamas/PLO terrorists.
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