by [violet] » Tue Oct 24, 2017 11:57 am
by The Protestant Union » Tue Oct 24, 2017 12:00 pm
by Bedetopia » Tue Oct 24, 2017 12:50 pm
by Bedetopia » Tue Oct 24, 2017 1:10 pm
by [violet] » Tue Oct 24, 2017 1:14 pm
by Fauxia » Tue Oct 24, 2017 6:48 pm
by Fauxia » Tue Oct 24, 2017 7:02 pm
by Bears Armed » Wed Oct 25, 2017 4:03 am
by The Protestant Union » Wed Oct 25, 2017 10:46 am
Fauxia wrote:I think that this is a good change, because religiousness is not exactly the same as spirituality. You can be spiritual but not religious, but a) it’s not easy, and b) the stat is called religiousness. Therefore the change is a logical one.
by [violet] » Wed Oct 25, 2017 3:17 pm
Bears Armed wrote:a major surge in public unhappiness with the government rather than most of the people just saying "okay" and changing their views overnight...
by Almonaster Nuevo » Wed Oct 25, 2017 3:35 pm
The Protestant Union wrote:If it isn't religious it isn't spiritual, if it isn't spiritual then it most certainly isn't religious. Stop trying to redefine terms.
by Phydios » Wed Oct 25, 2017 8:52 pm
Almonaster Nuevo wrote:The Protestant Union wrote:If it isn't religious it isn't spiritual, if it isn't spiritual then it most certainly isn't religious. Stop trying to redefine terms.
I disagree. "Spiritual" refers to a belief in and response to non-material phenomena. A religion is an organized body with a particular set of beliefs and spiritual practices. It is quite possible to be spiritual without accepting any particular religion.
If you claim to be religious but don’t control your tongue, you are fooling yourself, and your religion is worthless. Pure and genuine religion in the sight of God the Father means caring for orphans and widows in their distress and refusing to let the world corrupt you. | Not everyone who calls out to me, ‘Lord! Lord!’ will enter the Kingdom of Heaven. Only those who actually do the will of my Father in heaven will enter. On judgment day many will say to me, ‘Lord! Lord! We prophesied in your name and cast out demons in your name and performed many miracles in your name.’ But I will reply, ‘I never knew you. Get away from me, you who break God’s laws.’James 1:26-27, Matthew 7:21-23
by Trotterdam » Fri Oct 27, 2017 2:00 pm
There is a Cheerfulness stat, though. So it's possible to make your citizens unhappy. Maybe this is because you're teaching them to be dour laborers who think hedonism is a sin, and they fully agree with this point of view, but they're still not happy.[violet] wrote:NationStates actually operates on the reverse principle. You don't have to pass laws to keep your people happy; instead, their views change to fit your nation's ideals.Bears Armed wrote:a major surge in public unhappiness with the government rather than most of the people just saying "okay" and changing their views overnight...
Well, [violet] said that this change would make banning religion affect Religiousness, not completely override all other factors. So you could probably still have a nation which banned religion where Religiousness is still high, it'd just be harder than before.Bears Armed wrote:Shouldn't the effect of banning religion on Religiousness depend on how high Religiousness was in the first place?
For nations where Religiousness was high, I'd expect the effects of the government trying to outlaw religion being a major surge in public unhappiness with the government rather than most of the people just saying "okay" and changing their views overnight...
by [violet] » Fri Oct 27, 2017 2:22 pm
Trotterdam wrote:There is a Cheerfulness stat, though. So it's possible to make your citizens unhappy. Maybe this is because you're teaching them to be dour laborers who think hedonism is a sin, and they fully agree with this point of view, but they're still not happy.[violet] wrote:NationStates actually operates on the reverse principle. You don't have to pass laws to keep your people happy; instead, their views change to fit your nation's ideals.
by Almonaster Nuevo » Fri Oct 27, 2017 8:51 pm
by Oceanincs » Sun Nov 26, 2017 10:20 pm
[violet] wrote:Here is a topic for the first new Beta!
Please use it if you have feedback on this change.
by Bluelight-R006 » Mon Nov 27, 2017 3:34 am
by Pandect » Mon Nov 27, 2017 4:21 am
Bluelight-R006 wrote:Banning religion affects religiousness?
I think this should be added. If religion is banned, there would be no religion and so would there be no religiousness.
by Bluelight-R006 » Mon Nov 27, 2017 4:52 am
Pandect wrote:Bluelight-R006 wrote:Banning religion affects religiousness?
I think this should be added. If religion is banned, there would be no religion and so would there be no religiousness.
I disagree. Even if Religion is banned, it tends to still exist in pockets of underground movements. There are countless historical examples of religious groups meeting in secret when their religion was outlawed. Not to mention that religion tends to pop up in times of existential crisis for people. People can become religious in a myriad of circumstances and for all sorts of reasons, whether the government allows it or not. It's unlikely that you will ever have 100% atheism.
Wikipedia's definition of religion, by the way, is
"Religion is any cultural system of designated behaviors and practices, world views, texts, sanctified places, ethics, or organizations, that relate humanity to the supernatural or transcendental. Religions relate humanity to what anthropologist Clifford Geertz has referred to as a cosmic "order of existence". However, there is no scholarly consensus over what precisely constitutes a religion"
I would suggest that this ties in religion with spirituality and the two cannot be separated, since it does not merely mean a church or other organised body. Any type of belief that relates to a change in behaviour would constitute religion, and belief is not something that disappears just because the government bans religion.
by Doompeiion » Mon Nov 27, 2017 11:53 am
by Southern Southerland » Mon Nov 27, 2017 4:19 pm
by Merconitonitopia » Mon Nov 27, 2017 4:30 pm
Southern Southerland wrote:Banning religion should definitely decrease religiousness: indoctrination among young people would become much rarer. But it shouldn't make the nation 100% secular. There will always be some who hold on to their beliefs.
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