Them's fightin' words!
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by Wallenburg » Tue Aug 22, 2017 4:20 pm
by Godular » Tue Aug 22, 2017 6:46 pm
by Wrapper » Tue Aug 22, 2017 6:51 pm
by Wallenburg » Tue Aug 22, 2017 7:45 pm
Separatist Peoples wrote:OOC: Law does not punish people, organizations or individuals, for that which is not reasonably within their control or knowledge. EP has, here and on Discord, outlined a number of RP'd difficulties in his roleplay that lead me to believe that such situations are so far out of his nation's control or effective knowledge that they couldn't be said to be responsible for them.
Even if they were, it would be logical to assume that the appropriate response here is to make reasonable attempts to bring those who flaunt international law to justice, and not to establish ATC infrastructure on every planet with more than one nation on it on the off chance that there are illegal elements ignoring international law. RNT ought apply here.
Its really the same way that we would address the current WA ban on rape under the Sexual Autonomy Guarantee. A nation isn't going to be non-compliant if a rapist succeeds at his crime, they would be non-compliant if they willfully took no attempt to bring justice to him. And they surely wouldn't be non-compliant if the nation was never sufficiently aware of the violation to have taken action in the first place. That's an unreasonable interpretation of the duties a nation has to fulfill it's obligations, and would likely render every developing nation in the WA in violation of something through no fault of their own.
The RNT tells me that I, as an author, don't need to consider unrealistic interpretations in unusual circumstances, and that nations and the WA will work out these situations in an effective manner. Otherwise, I'd be derailed by any Tom, Dick, or Harry that has an unusual nation.
by Separatist Peoples » Tue Aug 22, 2017 9:39 pm
Wallenburg wrote:All OOC:
If Excidium Planetis is incapable of regulating international travel on a FT tech level, then I don't know how it can run something as complex as an interstellar fleetwide government.
Of course. I never suggested otherwise.
It is not unrealistic to expect member states to show international travel some oversight.
by Wallenburg » Tue Aug 22, 2017 10:07 pm
Separatist Peoples wrote:Ooc: then that is between EP and the WA. RNT has also historically allowed proposals to be drafted from a MT perspective and allowed FT nations to work around it as best suits them. I find EP's complaints to be easily addressed by the RNT.
by Excidium Planetis » Tue Aug 22, 2017 11:01 pm
Singaporean Transhumans wrote:You didn't know about Excidium? The greatest space nomads in the NS multiverse with a healthy dose (read: over 9000 percent) of realism?
Saveyou Island wrote:"Warmest welcomes to the Assembly, ambassador. You'll soon learn to hate everyone here."
Imperium Anglorum wrote:Digital Network Defence is pretty meh
News: AI wins Dawn Fleet election for High Counselor.
by United Peoples of the Chiefdom of Ibiri » Tue Aug 22, 2017 11:43 pm
by Sierra Lyricalia » Wed Aug 23, 2017 5:55 am
Excidium Planetis wrote:OOC:
The issue is less that they are lawbreakers but that even law abiding Excidian adventurers would be unable to comply in a meaningful way.
The result is noncompliance. Call it noncompliance in good faith if you must, but it would still be a massive failure to comply on the part of Excidium Planetis.
by Separatist Peoples » Wed Nov 08, 2017 9:35 am
Sierra Lyricalia wrote:
All that said, SP, it wouldn't be totally amiss (nor castrate the resolution) for you to add a very simple clarification such as "...where at all practical." That should clear things up, no?
by Araraukar » Wed Nov 08, 2017 10:57 am
Separatist Peoples wrote:Ooc: RNT has also historically allowed proposals to be drafted from a MT perspective and allowed FT nations to work around it as best suits them. I find EP's complaints to be easily addressed by the RNT.
Araraukar wrote:OOC: And also the tech assistance thing may run into issues with the patents that Auralia forced on everyone.
Apologies for absences, non-COVID health issues leave me with very little energy at times.Giovenith wrote:And sorry hun, if you were looking for a forum site where nobody argued, you've come to wrong one.
by Separatist Peoples » Wed Nov 08, 2017 11:44 am
Araraukar wrote:Separatist Peoples wrote:Ooc: RNT has also historically allowed proposals to be drafted from a MT perspective and allowed FT nations to work around it as best suits them. I find EP's complaints to be easily addressed by the RNT.
OOC: This being the same "reasonable nation" EP that has literally just claimed that non-human sapients are not people? (And the RP-side nation of Excidium Planetis does have non-human citizens, so it's not a RP ignoring thing.)
This is yet to be addressed, btw:Araraukar wrote:OOC: And also the tech assistance thing may run into issues with the patents that Auralia forced on everyone.
by Araraukar » Wed Nov 08, 2017 11:51 am
Separatist Peoples wrote:Araraukar wrote:OOC: And also the tech assistance thing may run into issues with the patents that Auralia forced on everyone.
OOC: Technical assistance would necessarily have to comply with extant law. That does not need to be explicit when the actions are by the very entity that promulgates that law.
Apologies for absences, non-COVID health issues leave me with very little energy at times.Giovenith wrote:And sorry hun, if you were looking for a forum site where nobody argued, you've come to wrong one.
by Separatist Peoples » Wed Nov 08, 2017 11:53 am
Araraukar wrote:Separatist Peoples wrote:OOC: Technical assistance would necessarily have to comply with extant law. That does not need to be explicit when the actions are by the very entity that promulgates that law.
OOC: Actually, how would it work? Does the patent thing prohibit the WA from breaking the rules, or just the member nations? If only the member nations (and any businesses in them) but not the WA, then presumably the WA could give whatever tech to the member nations and as soon as the tech changed hands, the nations/businesses in the cases where the patents would apply, would instantly be required to stop using the tech without paying royalties.
Colour me amused.
by Araraukar » Wed Nov 08, 2017 11:56 am
Separatist Peoples wrote:OOC: An interpretation that gave the WA free reign to ignore patent protections would be an interpretation that frustrates the purpose of the law, which would be contrary to fundamental canons of construction.
Apologies for absences, non-COVID health issues leave me with very little energy at times.Giovenith wrote:And sorry hun, if you were looking for a forum site where nobody argued, you've come to wrong one.
by Imperium Anglorum » Wed Nov 08, 2017 11:59 am
by World Assembly Improvement Foundation » Wed Nov 08, 2017 12:00 pm
by Araraukar » Wed Nov 08, 2017 12:04 pm
Imperium Anglorum wrote:Ah yes, Ara is back to 'a committee cannot balance two goals and do two different things at the same time'.
World Assembly Improvement Foundation wrote:I believe canons of construction are the usual way law is interpreted.
Oops, why did I post with this account?
Apologies for absences, non-COVID health issues leave me with very little energy at times.Giovenith wrote:And sorry hun, if you were looking for a forum site where nobody argued, you've come to wrong one.
by Wrapper » Wed Nov 08, 2017 12:06 pm
by Araraukar » Wed Nov 08, 2017 12:08 pm
Wrapper wrote:OOC: ...there is nothing that compels them to turn over all or even any of their technology; it's up to them what they want to share.
Apologies for absences, non-COVID health issues leave me with very little energy at times.Giovenith wrote:And sorry hun, if you were looking for a forum site where nobody argued, you've come to wrong one.
by Separatist Peoples » Wed Nov 08, 2017 12:09 pm
by Araraukar » Wed Nov 08, 2017 12:16 pm
Separatist Peoples wrote:*snip*
Apologies for absences, non-COVID health issues leave me with very little energy at times.Giovenith wrote:And sorry hun, if you were looking for a forum site where nobody argued, you've come to wrong one.
by Separatist Peoples » Wed Nov 08, 2017 12:22 pm
Araraukar wrote:
An addition to the patent-related thing; the proposal doesn't say WA would only share info that was freely donated for the purpose.
Also, part of the reason why I think the patent thing is stupid is that what's public domain in one nation, can still be patented in another, and thus restricted by that patent in a third.
by Araraukar » Wed Nov 08, 2017 12:28 pm
Separatist Peoples wrote:OOC: That is an RP issue that I am not going to reconcile. If you RP in a nation of a particular tech
Apologies for absences, non-COVID health issues leave me with very little energy at times.Giovenith wrote:And sorry hun, if you were looking for a forum site where nobody argued, you've come to wrong one.
by Excidium Planetis » Wed Nov 08, 2017 3:07 pm
Singaporean Transhumans wrote:You didn't know about Excidium? The greatest space nomads in the NS multiverse with a healthy dose (read: over 9000 percent) of realism?
Saveyou Island wrote:"Warmest welcomes to the Assembly, ambassador. You'll soon learn to hate everyone here."
Imperium Anglorum wrote:Digital Network Defence is pretty meh
News: AI wins Dawn Fleet election for High Counselor.
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