NATION

PASSWORD

NS Military Realism Consultancy Thread Mk X Purps Safe Space

A place to put national factbooks, embassy exchanges, and other information regarding the nations of the world. [In character]

Advertisement

Remove ads

User avatar
Purpelia
Post Czar
 
Posts: 34249
Founded: Oct 19, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby Purpelia » Thu Oct 26, 2017 3:04 pm

Schwere Panzer Abteilung 502 wrote:Was it normal for Soviet officers to be inexperienced?

It's kind of inevitable given that the average Soviet officer would have been too young to have fought in the last big one.
Last edited by Purpelia on Thu Oct 26, 2017 3:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Purpelia does not reflect my actual world views. In fact, the vast majority of Purpelian cannon is meant to shock and thus deliberately insane. I just like playing with the idea of a country of madmen utterly convinced that everyone else are the barbarians. So play along or not but don't ever think it's for real.



The above post contains hyperbole, metaphoric language, embellishment and exaggeration. It may also include badly translated figures of speech and misused idioms. Analyze accordingly.

User avatar
Austrasien
Minister
 
Posts: 3123
Founded: Apr 07, 2013
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Austrasien » Thu Oct 26, 2017 6:07 pm

Schwere Panzer Abteilung 502 wrote:Was it normal for Soviet officers to be inexperienced?


Everyone was inexperienced, but NATO had a defensive posture. Defense is stronger than offence. The offence, especially the ultra-rapid offence the Soviets were planning for, is extremely unforgiving to mistakes.
The leafposter formerly known as The Kievan People

The weak crumble, are slaughtered and are erased from history while the strong survive. The strong are respected and in the end, peace is made with the strong.

User avatar
The Akasha Colony
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 14117
Founded: Apr 25, 2010
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby The Akasha Colony » Thu Oct 26, 2017 6:54 pm

Crysuko wrote:I have a structure for larger scale army formations, can I get some input on if they're any good

A regiment is formed from 3,000 men
5 regiments form a division of 15,0000
3 divisions form a corps of 45,000
And 4 corps form an army group of 180,000


Units do not add up neatly like that except at the squad and fireteam level, because there are inevitably command elements that are added and very often other support elements as well. And different units for different purposes are of different size.

For instance, a US Army combined arms battalion back in 2012 had 635 men, and there were three of these in a brigade. But the brigade had 4,743 men in total, meaning that less than half of the brigade's soldiers were in the line battalions. They had a reconnaissance battalion of 429 men, an engineering battalion of 440 men, an artillery battalion of 398 men, and a support battalion of 1,386 men, twice as large as any of the other battalions. And lastly, there was a headquarters unit to coordinate it all with 185 men.

In comparison, a US Army infantry brigade has three infantry battalions each with 702 men, a reconnaissance battalion of 407 men, an engineering battalion of 418 men, an artillery battalion of 408 men, a support battalion of 951 men, and a HQ company with 178 men, for a total of 4,468 men.

Both are combat brigades but their different roles mean they have different amounts of manpower assigned to different tasks. The infantry brigade has a much smaller support battalion because it doesn't have a huge fleet of heavy, maintenance intensive armored fighting vehicles to support, while conversely it has more men in its line battalions because infantry units are more reliant on warm bodies to do the fighting, rather than machines.
A colony of the New Free Planets Alliance.
The primary MT nation of this account is the Republic of Carthage.
New Free Planets Alliance (FT)
New Terran Republic (FT)
Republic of Carthage (MT)
World Economic Union (MT)
Kaiserreich Europa Zentral (PT/MT)
Five Republics of Hanalua (FanT)
National Links: Factbook Entry | Embassy Program
Storefronts: Carthaginian Naval Export Authority [MT, Navy]

User avatar
The Manticoran Empire
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 9870
Founded: Aug 21, 2015
Anarchy

Postby The Manticoran Empire » Thu Oct 26, 2017 8:42 pm

Crysuko wrote:I have a structure for larger scale army formations, can I get some input on if they're any good

A regiment is formed from 3,000 men
5 regiments form a division of 15,0000
3 divisions form a corps of 45,000
And 4 corps form an army group of 180,000

It's good as a baseline. However, there are always additional formations. I'll link a TOE for a (now outdated) American divisional layout. A good thing to note is the fact that EVERY formation needs supporting sub-units. A battalion will typically have four or five companies, with three being line companies, one being headquarters, and one being support. A regiment/brigade will have three or four line battalions and two to three support battalions and a headquarters company. A division will have three line brigades, a divisional artillery brigade, an aviation brigade, possibly engineers (depends on who you ask and if you really want an extra 3,000 men), and a headquarters company. Divisions are generally, though, between 15,000 and 25,000 men, depending on how many sub-units they contain and how strong those sub-units are. Corps are generally 2 or more divisions, though they also have about a division's worth of other formations.

Division TOE from the late 90s for the US Army
For: Israel, Palestine, Kurdistan, American Nationalism, American citizens of Guam, American Samoa, Puerto Rico, Northern Mariana Islands, and US Virgin Islands receiving a congressional vote and being allowed to vote for president, military, veterans before refugees, guns, pro choice, LGBT marriage, plural marriage, US Constitution, World Peace, Global Unity.

Against: Communism, Socialism, Fascism, Liberalism, Theocracy, Corporatocracy.


By the Blood of our Fathers, By the Blood of our Sons, we fight, we die, we sacrifice for the Good of the Empire.

User avatar
Gallia-
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 23199
Founded: Oct 09, 2013
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Gallia- » Fri Oct 27, 2017 4:39 pm

Austrasien wrote:
Schwere Panzer Abteilung 502 wrote:Was it normal for Soviet officers to be inexperienced?


Everyone was inexperienced,


Soviet tier but they try to make up for their lack of training with raw elan. At least they are enthusiastic about defending the Republic. ;_;

e: And even then they can't elan properly because the guy at 10:16-10:17 sounds like he's trying to war cry while gargling a dick.
Last edited by Gallia- on Fri Oct 27, 2017 4:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Mazujotai
Envoy
 
Posts: 207
Founded: Oct 10, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby Mazujotai » Fri Oct 27, 2017 6:18 pm

Is OWL ammunition current field viable for military operations? That is on a squad level where specific highly trained units would be using them for evaluation.
Last edited by Mazujotai on Fri Oct 27, 2017 6:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Republic of Mazujotai


Politically homeless, nominal liberal. My politics are informed by my edgy middle school ""Clerical Communism"" and my equally as edgy high school Minarchist phases. Nominally I'm a social liberal who believes in the reasonable rights of all to express themselves socially and politically without ramification, I enjoy strong free trade principles with a strong emphasis on anti-corporatism and the need for strong but well checked Labour Unions and government anti-trust and anti-monopoly laws. I enjoy describing my positions as based on the principles of Realpolitik and derive influences from people like Henry Kissinger, Dwight Eisenhower, Teddy Roosevelt, Bill Clinton, Ronald Reagan, and Barack Obama.

User avatar
Kassaran
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 10666
Founded: Jun 16, 2013
Democratic Socialists

Postby Kassaran » Sat Oct 28, 2017 3:20 am

Mazujotai wrote:Is OWL ammunition current field viable for military operations? That is on a squad level where specific highly trained units would be using them for evaluation.

Stop posting here and post in the new thread.
Here's the link.
Beware: Walls of Text Generally appear Above this Sig.
Zarkenis Ultima wrote:Tristan noticed footsteps behind him and looked there, only to see Eric approaching and then pointing his sword at the girl. He just blinked a few times at this before speaking.

"Put that down, Mr. Eric." He said. "She's obviously not a chicken."
The Knockout Gun Gals wrote:
The United Remnants of America wrote:You keep that cheap Chinese knock-off away from the real OG...

bloody hell, mate.
that's a real deal. We just don't buy the license rights.

User avatar
Schwere Panzer Abteilung 502
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1476
Founded: Dec 28, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby Schwere Panzer Abteilung 502 » Sun Nov 05, 2017 1:22 pm

What's the difference between combat life support and basic life support? Does CLS largely follow the same steps, except it also takes into account battlefield factors(having to move someone while under fire, specific attention paid to gunshot/shrapnel wounds, etc)?
militant radical centrist in the sheets, neoclassical realist in the streets.
Saving this here so I can peruse it at my leisure.
In IC the Federated Kingdom of Prussia, 1950s-2000s timeline. Prussia backs a third-world Balkans puppet state called Sal Kataria.

User avatar
Gallia-
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 23199
Founded: Oct 09, 2013
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Gallia- » Sun Nov 05, 2017 1:36 pm

68W is literally a paramedic with an M-16 and BDUs. If you're an experienced paramedic before joining the Army you'd have zero trouble passing 68W AIT and possibly vice-versa. There is no real difference except maybe an Army ambulance has more atropine, blood/plasma, and saline than a civil ambulance, because it's stocked out to deal with loads of stuff like traumatic amputations and gunshot wounds. A civil ambulance would be able to deal with it too, but probably with less throughput and more bottlenecks, at least initially. Every day for the Army is training for MCI, whereas civil paramedics only deal with MCIs during major car accidents or something.

The average American regional hospital has fewer helicopters and ambulances on call than a U.S. Army CSH. OTOH a CSH has fewer beds than a typical regional hospital (a CSH is modular, but it's usually less than 200 beds; whereas a typical U.S. regional hospital is about as large as a really big CSH). So you'd ultimately be shipping the worse guys from the CSH on a Boeing or something back stateside or to Germany or whatever where they can be put up in a civilian hospital and treated as a GSW, burn ward, or traumatic amputation patient.

If by "CLS" you mean "combat lifesaver" then that is basically a Red Cross CPR course plus "Asherman seal," "pressure on wound," and "NPA". So "nothing", really.
Last edited by Gallia- on Sun Nov 05, 2017 1:41 pm, edited 2 times in total.

User avatar
Puzikas
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 10914
Founded: Nov 24, 2012
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Puzikas » Sun Nov 05, 2017 2:11 pm

See response in the actual NSMRC.
Sevvania wrote:I don't post much, but I am always here.
Usually waiting for Puz ;-;

Goodbye.

User avatar
Schwere Panzer Abteilung 502
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1476
Founded: Dec 28, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby Schwere Panzer Abteilung 502 » Tue Nov 07, 2017 8:40 pm

Gallia- wrote:68W is literally a paramedic with an M-16 and BDUs. If you're an experienced paramedic before joining the Army you'd have zero trouble passing 68W AIT and possibly vice-versa. There is no real difference except maybe an Army ambulance has more atropine, blood/plasma, and saline than a civil ambulance, because it's stocked out to deal with loads of stuff like traumatic amputations and gunshot wounds. A civil ambulance would be able to deal with it too, but probably with less throughput and more bottlenecks, at least initially. Every day for the Army is training for MCI, whereas civil paramedics only deal with MCIs during major car accidents or something.

The average American regional hospital has fewer helicopters and ambulances on call than a U.S. Army CSH. OTOH a CSH has fewer beds than a typical regional hospital (a CSH is modular, but it's usually less than 200 beds; whereas a typical U.S. regional hospital is about as large as a really big CSH). So you'd ultimately be shipping the worse guys from the CSH on a Boeing or something back stateside or to Germany or whatever where they can be put up in a civilian hospital and treated as a GSW, burn ward, or traumatic amputation patient.

If by "CLS" you mean "combat lifesaver" then that is basically a Red Cross CPR course plus "Asherman seal," "pressure on wound," and "NPA". So "nothing", really.

How would the US Army have expected to deal with casualties in an 80's Cold War mega tank battle? I'd expect all hospitals, civilian and military, would very quickly be outstripped by the demand for medical care in a non-nuclear WWIII - certainly many would be flown to the US, but that leads to some grim mathematics about who gets to survive and who doesn't.
militant radical centrist in the sheets, neoclassical realist in the streets.
Saving this here so I can peruse it at my leisure.
In IC the Federated Kingdom of Prussia, 1950s-2000s timeline. Prussia backs a third-world Balkans puppet state called Sal Kataria.

User avatar
Kassaran
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 10666
Founded: Jun 16, 2013
Democratic Socialists

Postby Kassaran » Wed Nov 08, 2017 1:41 am

For those of you not aware, a certain word has recently come into effect as being declared verboten across the whole of NS. This word will not be named, but if you wish to know what it is, refer to the link below. Usage of the word is expressly forbidden and will result in bans for trolling as has been extensively demonstrated by Nationstates' Moderation. I don't recommend even referring to the word at all out of context or in context to what it is in the first place due to the apparently high-level offense it carries with its usage. For those otherwise left unbothered by this, feel free to go about your way, but for the rest of us whom are affected, having used the word repeatedly in the past... I'll recommend we carefully watch our words from herein. The Hive is watching us closely.

Beware: Walls of Text Generally appear Above this Sig.
Zarkenis Ultima wrote:Tristan noticed footsteps behind him and looked there, only to see Eric approaching and then pointing his sword at the girl. He just blinked a few times at this before speaking.

"Put that down, Mr. Eric." He said. "She's obviously not a chicken."
The Knockout Gun Gals wrote:
The United Remnants of America wrote:You keep that cheap Chinese knock-off away from the real OG...

bloody hell, mate.
that's a real deal. We just don't buy the license rights.

User avatar
Purpelia
Post Czar
 
Posts: 34249
Founded: Oct 19, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby Purpelia » Wed Nov 08, 2017 3:20 am

Schwere Panzer Abteilung 502 wrote:How would the US Army have expected to deal with casualties in an 80's Cold War mega tank battle? I'd expect all hospitals, civilian and military, would very quickly be outstripped by the demand for medical care in a non-nuclear WWIII - certainly many would be flown to the US, but that leads to some grim mathematics about who gets to survive and who doesn't.

I've seen an 80's documentary where they asked the same question and the answer was basically that they wouldn't. The war was absolutely expected to go atomic at least on the tactical level fairly quickly and the capacity simply was not there to save most of the casualties.
Purpelia does not reflect my actual world views. In fact, the vast majority of Purpelian cannon is meant to shock and thus deliberately insane. I just like playing with the idea of a country of madmen utterly convinced that everyone else are the barbarians. So play along or not but don't ever think it's for real.



The above post contains hyperbole, metaphoric language, embellishment and exaggeration. It may also include badly translated figures of speech and misused idioms. Analyze accordingly.

User avatar
Roskian Federation
Diplomat
 
Posts: 717
Founded: Jul 13, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Roskian Federation » Wed Nov 08, 2017 7:26 pm

Schwere Panzer Abteilung 502 wrote:
Gallia- wrote:68W is literally a paramedic with an M-16 and BDUs. If you're an experienced paramedic before joining the Army you'd have zero trouble passing 68W AIT and possibly vice-versa. There is no real difference except maybe an Army ambulance has more atropine, blood/plasma, and saline than a civil ambulance, because it's stocked out to deal with loads of stuff like traumatic amputations and gunshot wounds. A civil ambulance would be able to deal with it too, but probably with less throughput and more bottlenecks, at least initially. Every day for the Army is training for MCI, whereas civil paramedics only deal with MCIs during major car accidents or something.

The average American regional hospital has fewer helicopters and ambulances on call than a U.S. Army CSH. OTOH a CSH has fewer beds than a typical regional hospital (a CSH is modular, but it's usually less than 200 beds; whereas a typical U.S. regional hospital is about as large as a really big CSH). So you'd ultimately be shipping the worse guys from the CSH on a Boeing or something back stateside or to Germany or whatever where they can be put up in a civilian hospital and treated as a GSW, burn ward, or traumatic amputation patient.

If by "CLS" you mean "combat lifesaver" then that is basically a Red Cross CPR course plus "Asherman seal," "pressure on wound," and "NPA". So "nothing", really.

How would the US Army have expected to deal with casualties in an 80's Cold War mega tank battle? I'd expect all hospitals, civilian and military, would very quickly be outstripped by the demand for medical care in a non-nuclear WWIII - certainly many would be flown to the US, but that leads to some grim mathematics about who gets to survive and who doesn't.


Considering official soviet strategy in the later 80s was a tactical nuclear weapon fueled rush to the rhine and then to paris, it pretty much would have gone absolutely nuclear within a week
RIP ROSKI, UNJUSTLY DELETED on 12 JULY 2016 +15,601 posts

RSS Madenska set to fully activate on October 15th
Yugoslovenski and Maldania reaffirm the Central States Alliance

User avatar
Kassaran
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 10666
Founded: Jun 16, 2013
Democratic Socialists

Postby Kassaran » Wed Nov 08, 2017 7:31 pm

Please stop posting here and begin posting in the current NSMRCT: https://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=425718
Beware: Walls of Text Generally appear Above this Sig.
Zarkenis Ultima wrote:Tristan noticed footsteps behind him and looked there, only to see Eric approaching and then pointing his sword at the girl. He just blinked a few times at this before speaking.

"Put that down, Mr. Eric." He said. "She's obviously not a chicken."
The Knockout Gun Gals wrote:
The United Remnants of America wrote:You keep that cheap Chinese knock-off away from the real OG...

bloody hell, mate.
that's a real deal. We just don't buy the license rights.

Previous

Advertisement

Remove ads

Return to Factbooks and National Information

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot], Jolantia, Necrisis

Advertisement

Remove ads