More people means lower wages, by the law of supply (of employees) vs demand (for workforce).
More taxes? Maybe, but also more spending.
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by Petrolheadia » Fri Oct 13, 2017 7:26 am
by Alvecia » Fri Oct 13, 2017 7:27 am
Purpelia wrote:Alvecia wrote:I'm pretty sure long term, immigration improves the economy. More people, more consumers, more demand, more money in the economy, more taxes, etc.
That's only true for economies who have a constant supply of spare economic capacity to create new jobs. And that's only true in industrial economies like those in China and the developing world (And the western world several decades ago). In economies with a shortage of spare work places and industry the opposite is true. In those societies immigration drives down the price of labor by competing for the same, limited and insufficient supply of jobs thus driving medium income and demand down. This in turn has a negative effect long term as it drives down the incentive to expand the economy by opening new businesses.
TLDR if you are already growing than more people means faster growth. If you are NOT growing than more people means even less growth.
by Purpelia » Fri Oct 13, 2017 7:36 am
Ifreann wrote:There's lots of stuff out there.
by The Empire of Pretantia » Fri Oct 13, 2017 7:38 am
Purpelia wrote:Ifreann wrote:There's lots of stuff out there.
None of it worth the price though.
It's quite simple really. Space travel is boring.
Space is mostly emptiness with the occasional ball of rock or gas whose only value for the average citizen is as a trivia tidbit if he ever gets to go on a game show. It's not a realm of danger, adventure and romance. It's a realm of boring distant things that you can't even reach. The job of a space scientist isn't to go out and explore new worlds and discover new civilizations. It's to look at blurry pictures of the night sky and try to figure out what's a planet and what's a speck of dust on the lens.
And that's the opposite of cool and interesting. If space was more like science fiction where the average person can just jump on a space ship and go to a distant planet to have sex with green skin girls or fight alien roaches or something than it would be cool. As it is it's just not.
Manned space travel is boring AND worthless.
The reason its worthless is that it in no way influences the lives of the average citizen of earth in any way, shape or form. Deploying satellites is boring but it has some value in that it gets me a better TV reception and makes my commute easier as I don't have to fiddle with paper maps. But sending a man to the moon did absolutely zero to make my life better. It did absolutely zero to improve anything other than give america some bragging rights and tangentially effect various sciences that would have improved anyway to support unmanned exploration.
by Alvecia » Fri Oct 13, 2017 7:42 am
The first four-color edition of Spinoff was published in 1976, and it has been published every year since, sharing the stories of nearly 2,000 products and services that began as, or have benefited from, NASA technology.
by VoVoDoCo » Fri Oct 13, 2017 7:43 am
by Purpelia » Fri Oct 13, 2017 7:46 am
The Empire of Pretantia wrote:Not with that attitude!
Alvecia wrote:That doesn't sounds quite right to me. Surely with more consumers, the supply of jobs increases as well as businesses expand to meet the demands of the increased market.
by VoVoDoCo » Fri Oct 13, 2017 7:50 am
Purpelia wrote:Alvecia wrote:I'm pretty sure long term, immigration improves the economy. More people, more consumers, more demand, more money in the economy, more taxes, etc.
That's only true for economies who have a constant supply of spare economic capacity to create new jobs. And that's only true in industrial economies like those in China and the developing world (And the western world several decades ago). In economies with a shortage of spare work places and industry the opposite is true. In those societies immigration drives down the price of labor by competing for the same, limited and insufficient supply of jobs thus driving medium income and demand down. This in turn has a negative effect long term as it drives down the incentive to expand the economy by opening new businesses.
TLDR if you are already growing than more people means faster growth. If you are NOT growing than more people means even less growth.
by Purpelia » Fri Oct 13, 2017 7:58 am
Vovodoco wrote:It doesn't matter if you have a constant supply of spare economic capacity. An immigrant comes in and there isn't a place for them to work, they just become impoverished. That's like saying that people having babies is bad for the economy because there will be less spare economic capacity. More workers means a higher standard of selection by producers. That's it. Also:
- Immigrants Improve the economy.
- They make better workers.
by Singularity Multiversal Travel Empire » Fri Oct 13, 2017 8:06 am
Vovodoco wrote:Purpelia wrote:That's only true for economies who have a constant supply of spare economic capacity to create new jobs. And that's only true in industrial economies like those in China and the developing world (And the western world several decades ago). In economies with a shortage of spare work places and industry the opposite is true. In those societies immigration drives down the price of labor by competing for the same, limited and insufficient supply of jobs thus driving medium income and demand down. This in turn has a negative effect long term as it drives down the incentive to expand the economy by opening new businesses.
TLDR if you are already growing than more people means faster growth. If you are NOT growing than more people means even less growth.
It doesn't matter if you have a constant supply of spare economic capacity. An immigrant comes in and there isn't a place for them to work, they just become impoverished. That's like saying that people having babies is bad for the economy because there will be less spare economic capacity. More workers means a higher standard of selection by producers. That's it. Also:
- Immigrants Improve the economy.
- They make better workers.
"Sapient self-governance is overrated. It all fails eventually. Have fun while you can."Officially an A-class civilization,The Singularity Multiversal Travel Empire (SMTE) doesn't care!but really a J-class civilization.
by The Empire of Pretantia » Fri Oct 13, 2017 8:10 am
by The Goggles » Fri Oct 13, 2017 8:12 am
by Coalition of North American States » Fri Oct 13, 2017 8:26 am
Uinted Communist of Africa wrote:MARS!!!MARS!!!MARS!!!MARS!!!MARS!!!MARS!!!MARS!!!MARS!!!MARS!!!MARS!!!MARS!!!MARS!!!MARS!!!MARS!!!MARS!!!MARS!!!MARS!!!MARS!!!MARS!!!MARS!!!MARS!!!MARS!!!MARS!!!MARS!!!MARS!!!MARS!!!MARS!!!MARS!!!---every nerd on earth
by Aigania » Fri Oct 13, 2017 8:34 am
by The Federal District of Vice Santos » Fri Oct 13, 2017 12:46 pm
by Coalition of North American States » Fri Oct 13, 2017 1:56 pm
by United States of Red Dawn » Fri Oct 13, 2017 2:04 pm
The Goggles wrote:Anything but Mars. I firmly believe that we should finish exploring this planet before we go trying to explore other planets.
by Victores » Fri Oct 13, 2017 4:37 pm
by Constitutional Technocracy of Minecraft » Fri Oct 13, 2017 11:54 pm
by Constitutional Technocracy of Minecraft » Fri Oct 13, 2017 11:55 pm
Victores wrote:America should build a wall. That would rain the budget and the Soviet Union can get to Mars first.
by Imperializt Russia » Sat Oct 14, 2017 2:45 am
The Greater German Federal Republic wrote:Vassenor wrote:Going to Mars has the potential to benefit humanity as a whole, even though I'm personally not sure about whether it's worth the risk to send crewed missions yet rather than landers and rovers.
Building a wall does nothing except satisfy the ego of one particular manbaby.
We have to take great risks if we want to truly advance, it was the same thing when Yuri Gagarin became the first man in space
Also,Lamadia wrote:dangerous socialist attitude
Imperializt Russia wrote:I'm English, you tit.
by Imperializt Russia » Sat Oct 14, 2017 2:46 am
The Goggles wrote:Anything but Mars. I firmly believe that we should finish exploring this planet before we go trying to explore other planets.
Also,Lamadia wrote:dangerous socialist attitude
Imperializt Russia wrote:I'm English, you tit.
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