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[LEGALITY CHALLENGE] - Freedom to Seek Care

Where WA members debate how to improve the world, one resolution at a time.

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Bears Armed
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 21475
Founded: Jun 01, 2006
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Bears Armed » Sat Sep 23, 2017 4:01 am

As noted in my previous comment, I was only able to get online in NS for a few minutes on that day and therefore had to make my decisions in a hurry: Possibly I shouldn't have posted at all, then, but I was unsure about whether RL during the next few days would give me much more opportunity to look at the matter either.
I'll now take a closer look at the situation, with full copies of the relevant texts open before me, at some stage during this weekend.
The Confrederated Clans (and other Confrederated Bodys) of the Free Bears of Bears Armed
(includes The Ursine NorthLands) Demonym = Bear[s]; adjective = ‘Urrsish’.
Population = just under 20 million. Economy = only Thriving. Average Life expectancy = c.60 years. If the nation is classified as 'Anarchy' there still is a [strictly limited] national government... and those aren't "biker gangs", they're traditional cross-Clan 'Warrior Societies', generally respected rather than feared.
Author of some GA Resolutions, via Bears Armed Mission; subject of an SC resolution.
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Imperium Anglorum
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Founded: Aug 26, 2013
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Imperium Anglorum » Wed Sep 27, 2017 7:48 am

When will the relevant decision be available?

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Separatist Peoples
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Left-Leaning College State

Postby Separatist Peoples » Wed Sep 27, 2017 8:01 am

Imperium Anglorum wrote:When will the relevant decision be available?

We have a draft all but finished. We're waiting to make sure every active GenSec member gets a chance to look over it and comment.

His Worshipfulness, the Most Unscrupulous, Plainly Deceitful, Dissembling, Strategicly Calculating Lord GA Secretariat, Authority on All Existence, Arbiter of Right, Toxic Globalist Dog, Dark Psychic Vampire, and Chief Populist Elitist!
Separatist Peoples should RESIGN!

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Araraukar
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Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Araraukar » Wed Sep 27, 2017 10:17 am

Separatist Peoples wrote:We're waiting to make sure every active GenSec member gets a chance to look over it and comment.

There are non-active GenSec members?
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Apologies for absences, non-COVID health issues leave me with very little energy at times.

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Imperium Anglorum
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Postby Imperium Anglorum » Wed Sep 27, 2017 10:29 am

Araraukar wrote:There are non-active GenSec members?

CD has been somewhat inactive for some time, I hear. He apparently lives in an area affected by recent hurricanes.
Last edited by Imperium Anglorum on Wed Sep 27, 2017 10:31 am, edited 1 time in total.

Author: 1 SC and 56+ GA resolutions
Maintainer: GA Passed Resolutions
Developer: Communiqué and InfoEurope
GenSec (24 Dec 2021 –); posts not official unless so indicated
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Twice-commended toxic villainous globalist kittehs

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Separatist Peoples
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Founded: Feb 17, 2011
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Separatist Peoples » Wed Sep 27, 2017 10:29 am

Araraukar wrote:
Separatist Peoples wrote:We're waiting to make sure every active GenSec member gets a chance to look over it and comment.

There are non-active GenSec members?

There are GenSec members who, by virtue of their personal schedule or the various calamities in the world, have not been as active as they would like to be.

His Worshipfulness, the Most Unscrupulous, Plainly Deceitful, Dissembling, Strategicly Calculating Lord GA Secretariat, Authority on All Existence, Arbiter of Right, Toxic Globalist Dog, Dark Psychic Vampire, and Chief Populist Elitist!
Separatist Peoples should RESIGN!

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Araraukar
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Founded: May 14, 2007
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Araraukar » Thu Sep 28, 2017 2:49 pm

Imperium Anglorum wrote:CD has been somewhat inactive for some time, I hear. He apparently lives in an area affected by recent hurricanes.
Separatist Peoples wrote:There are GenSec members who, by virtue of their personal schedule or the various calamities in the world, have not been as active as they would like to be.

"Hurricane" is a good enough reason. :lol:
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Araraukar's RP reality is Modern Tech solarpunk. In IC in the WA.
Giovenith wrote:And sorry hun, if you were looking for a forum site where nobody argued, you've come to wrong one.
Apologies for absences, non-COVID health issues leave me with very little energy at times.

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Tinfect
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Postby Tinfect » Thu Sep 28, 2017 6:36 pm

Araraukar wrote:"Hurricane" is a good enough reason. :lol:


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Araraukar
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Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Araraukar » Mon Oct 09, 2017 8:02 am

Any chance of the official ruling, to let Waldensia re-do the proposal in a way that will, with actual certainty, not make the same mistakes that rendered the first one illegal?
- ambassador miss Janis Leveret
Araraukar's RP reality is Modern Tech solarpunk. In IC in the WA.
Giovenith wrote:And sorry hun, if you were looking for a forum site where nobody argued, you've come to wrong one.
Apologies for absences, non-COVID health issues leave me with very little energy at times.

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Separatist Peoples
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Left-Leaning College State

Postby Separatist Peoples » Mon Oct 09, 2017 8:11 am

Araraukar wrote:Any chance of the official ruling, to let Waldensia re-do the proposal in a way that will, with actual certainty, not make the same mistakes that rendered the first one illegal?

We're actually in the process of getting it out. We were holding off to make sure everybody got the chance to sign off.

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Separatist Peoples should RESIGN!

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New Waldensia
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Founded: Feb 18, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby New Waldensia » Mon Oct 09, 2017 8:32 am

Separatist Peoples wrote:
Araraukar wrote:Any chance of the official ruling, to let Waldensia re-do the proposal in a way that will, with actual certainty, not make the same mistakes that rendered the first one illegal?

We're actually in the process of getting it out. We were holding off to make sure everybody got the chance to sign off.


Much appreciated.
IC WA Diplomat Josiah Garrett
Author of GA #414 (Freedom to Seek Medical Care) and GA #456 (Freedom to Seek Medical Care II)

Army of Freedom medals received:
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Bananaistan
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Founded: Apr 20, 2012
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Bananaistan » Wed Oct 11, 2017 12:55 pm

*** General Assembly Secretariat Decision ***
Challenged Proposal: "Freedom to Seek Care"
Date of Decision: 11 October 2017
Decision: Proposal is illegal, 4-0
Rules Applied: Contradiction of existing legislation

We find the challenged resolution illegal in respect of contradiction with GAR#53, Epidemic Response Act, and GAR#389, Rights Of The Quarantined. Bananaistan wrote the majority opinion, joined by Separatist Peoples, Sierra Lyricalia & Sciongrad.

We are asked to rule on whether the challenged proposal violates the contradiction rule on a number of points.

Regarding the contradiction between section 1 of the challenged proposal and GAR#53 and GAR#389, clause 3d of GAR#53 urges nations to quarantine infected individuals in their homes or in hospitals. Clause 4b of GAR#389 requires nations to move infected individuals into quarantines, preventing the individual from travelling and leaving the nation. Member states are encouraged in one and then required in the other to restrict the right of a group of individuals to travel or leave the nation. As the challenged proposal creates an unequivocal right to leave a nation in certain circumstances (IE when the individual is seeking medical treatment abroad) the proposal contradicts both and is illegal on this count.

Though the clause is unclear, we can reasonably interpret section 1 of the challenged proposal to only apply to citizens and their dependents leaving a member nation by referencing seeking healthcare in other nations. The second "affirms" clause of GAR#76 Standardised Passport Act deals with the rights of individuals entering another nation. The challenged section deals with those leaving a nation while the clause in GAR#76 deals with those entering another. Thus, we do not find that there is contradiction on this count.

Regarding the contradiction between section 3 and GAR#76: we note that GAR#76 defines a visa and then only refers to visas in the "AFFRIMS" clause which details the rights of a holder of a valid visa. GAR#76 does not guide member states as to how to issue visas. As such, it is possible for future WA legislation to give such instructions without risking contradiction of the non-existent regulation of visa issuance procedures in GAR#76. Section 3 of the challenged proposal merely clarifies that in its travel policies; For example, when issuing a visa, a receiving nation cannot discriminate solely based on the traveller’s intent to seek medical treatment. A nation could still require a visa for all travellers to enter but it could not discriminatorily refuse a visa to a medical tourist. Therefore, we find that there is no contradiction on this point.

Regarding the internal contradiction argument, section 3 sets out that member nations may not discriminate against non-citizens travelling to seek medical treatment solely because they seek medical treatment. Section 7 states that no nation must accept foreign medical patients, and turns this around for the subset of non-citizens travelling to seek medical treatment who are already patients. We find this to be contradictory. As the moderator precedent on the issue of internal contradiction is based on the old version of the rules, which included no definition of contradiction, it would be unreasonable to maintain this precedent when the current contradiction rule clearly refers to contradiction with active resolutions, and we do not find the proposal illegal on this count.
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New Waldensia
Chargé d'Affaires
 
Posts: 432
Founded: Feb 18, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby New Waldensia » Wed Oct 11, 2017 2:40 pm

Many thanks for your work on this ruling.
IC WA Diplomat Josiah Garrett
Author of GA #414 (Freedom to Seek Medical Care) and GA #456 (Freedom to Seek Medical Care II)

Army of Freedom medals received:
N-Day² Medals -- N-Day³ Medals -- N-Day⁴ Medals
Z-Day6 Medals

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Imperium Anglorum
GA Secretariat
 
Posts: 12655
Founded: Aug 26, 2013
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Imperium Anglorum » Wed Oct 11, 2017 10:14 pm

Very happy to see that we can put this 'internal contradiction' claptrap to rest. Also, you will find that this has been added to the catalogue.
Last edited by Imperium Anglorum on Wed Oct 11, 2017 10:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Author: 1 SC and 56+ GA resolutions
Maintainer: GA Passed Resolutions
Developer: Communiqué and InfoEurope
GenSec (24 Dec 2021 –); posts not official unless so indicated
Delegate for Europe
Elsie Mortimer Wellesley
Ideological Bulwark 285, WALL delegate
Twice-commended toxic villainous globalist kittehs

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Araraukar
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 15899
Founded: May 14, 2007
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Araraukar » Wed Oct 11, 2017 11:51 pm

Bananaistan wrote:
A nation could still require a visa for all travellers to enter but it could not discriminatorily refuse a visa to a medical tourist.

Thank you for the ruling, but just one question; could a nation still legally put clauses preventing medical tourism in the visas?
- ambassador miss Janis Leveret
Araraukar's RP reality is Modern Tech solarpunk. In IC in the WA.
Giovenith wrote:And sorry hun, if you were looking for a forum site where nobody argued, you've come to wrong one.
Apologies for absences, non-COVID health issues leave me with very little energy at times.

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