by Galloism » Fri May 29, 2009 7:26 am
by Wilgrove » Fri May 29, 2009 7:30 am
by Sarkhaan » Fri May 29, 2009 7:34 am
Wilgrove wrote:Because they're afraid that their belief will turn out to be false, or in error.
Of course I'm all for Scientific discovery and advancement. Hell if it wasn't for science, I'd died right after birth.
Also, you really should start using the names of God. God is a title.
I'm guessing in this instance you mean Yahweh.
by Soyut » Fri May 29, 2009 7:35 am
Galloism wrote:It was brought up in the other thread that, in many cases, religions (of various creeds) have blocked scientific advancement. I don't deny that. It's a historical fact. The question I want to know is: why?
The reason this puzzles me is for this simple thought experiment:
Let's suppose you believe in God/gods/giant spaghetti monster/magic pink unicorns/whatever that created the universe.
Wouldn't you want to know how he did it? Wouldn't you want to know how this character set up the universe, the physical laws, the way that weather, astronomy, physics, chemistry, and biology work? Wouldn't you be interested at all in his creation? Wouldn't studying his creation be a good way of actually learning more about the individual in question? I mean, personally, when I go to a store and buy something new and interesting, the first thing I want to do is take it home and take it apart to see how it works. I don't always do it, but dammit I want to.
Ok, I've babbled. Come hither, NSG!
by Farnhamia Redux » Fri May 29, 2009 7:35 am
by Wilgrove » Fri May 29, 2009 7:36 am
Sarkhaan wrote:Wilgrove wrote:Because they're afraid that their belief will turn out to be false, or in error.
Of course I'm all for Scientific discovery and advancement. Hell if it wasn't for science, I'd died right after birth.
Also, you really should start using the names of God. God is a title.
I'm guessing in this instance you mean Yahweh.
god is a title. God is a specific deity, who also goes by Eloheim, Adonai, Lord, Yhwh, Allah, Got, and about a hundred others.
As to why religion frequently blocks science, it tends to come from fear, misunderstanding, and arrogance.
by G073nks » Fri May 29, 2009 7:45 am
by Gift-of-god » Fri May 29, 2009 7:53 am
by Hetairos » Fri May 29, 2009 7:55 am
by Deus Malum » Fri May 29, 2009 8:00 am
by Hetairos » Fri May 29, 2009 8:00 am
Gift-of-god wrote:Religion does not constitute an obstacle to science. Many early scientists (or natural philosophers as they were called then) were deeply religious people who were studying the natural world in order to prove god's existence/hand in creation/purpose/whatever.
Obstacles only arise when one field tries to claim a truth in the other's field. If, for example, I beleive Genesis is literally true, I am using religion tomake a claim about the natural world which is science's domain. My belief then becomes an obstacle to my understanding of Big Bang and evolutionary theories, as well as others. But, if I hold the belief that God is a rational being who created a rational world, and then created humanity in His image (i.e. rational), that would actually be a strong belief on which one could then construct the scientific method.
by Sarkhaan » Fri May 29, 2009 8:05 am
Wilgrove wrote:The only reason Yahweh is called God because some Jews thousands of years ago felt like they weren't worthy of saying God's true name (It's Yahweh) so they started calling him "God". Personally it annoys me.
by Deus Malum » Fri May 29, 2009 8:05 am
Sarkhaan wrote:Wilgrove wrote:The only reason Yahweh is called God because some Jews thousands of years ago felt like they weren't worthy of saying God's true name (It's Yahweh) so they started calling him "God". Personally it annoys me.
Actually, God is an English word. Comes from the Gothic "Guth". Yahweh is, at best, a mediocre English attempt at pronouncing YHWH...given that the vowels were never written, and speaking the word outside the temple was forbidden, the actual pronunciation has been lost. It is also standardly read in Hebrew as "Adonai", which actually translates to "lord" and not "god". Elohim is the hebrew word for god, and is also an acceptable name.
by Free Soviets » Fri May 29, 2009 8:09 am
Galloism wrote:It was brought up in the other thread that, in many cases, religions (of various creeds) have blocked scientific advancement. I don't deny that. It's a historical fact. The question I want to know is: why?
by Vojvodina-Nihon » Fri May 29, 2009 8:09 am
by Gift-of-god » Fri May 29, 2009 8:10 am
Hetairos wrote:Gift-of-god wrote:Religion does not constitute an obstacle to science. Many early scientists (or natural philosophers as they were called then) were deeply religious people who were studying the natural world in order to prove god's existence/hand in creation/purpose/whatever.
Obstacles only arise when one field tries to claim a truth in the other's field. If, for example, I beleive Genesis is literally true, I am using religion tomake a claim about the natural world which is science's domain. My belief then becomes an obstacle to my understanding of Big Bang and evolutionary theories, as well as others. But, if I hold the belief that God is a rational being who created a rational world, and then created humanity in His image (i.e. rational), that would actually be a strong belief on which one could then construct the scientific method.
But unless you can use logic/reason/evidence to base your scientific ideas on, then everything you create using logic is completely worthless. In order for something to be logical, there need to be as few assumptions in it as possible.
by Sarkhaan » Fri May 29, 2009 8:13 am
Deus Malum wrote:But isn't Elohim also a plural word? Genuine question, as I don't speak a word of Hebrew.
by Saige Dragon » Fri May 29, 2009 8:20 am
Soyut wrote:I'll give you an example of religion blocking science. The catholic church banned Copernicus for believing that the sun is the center of the universe.
by Ravea » Fri May 29, 2009 8:32 am
Saige Dragon wrote:Soyut wrote:I'll give you an example of religion blocking science. The catholic church banned Copernicus for believing that the sun is the center of the universe.
And the Catholic Church did it with good reason. The sun isn't the center of the insanely large and ever expanding universe, it's the center of our tiny and insignificant solar system.
by Free Soviets » Fri May 29, 2009 8:42 am
Saige Dragon wrote:Soyut wrote:I'll give you an example of religion blocking science. The catholic church banned Copernicus for believing that the sun is the center of the universe.
And the Catholic Church did it with good reason. The sun isn't the center of the insanely large and ever expanding universe, it's the center of our tiny and insignificant solar system.
by Northwest Slobovia » Fri May 29, 2009 8:43 am
Galloism wrote:It was brought up in the other thread that, in many cases, religions (of various creeds) have blocked scientific advancement. I don't deny that. It's a historical fact. The question I want to know is: why?
by Blouman Empire » Fri May 29, 2009 9:26 am
by Hetairos » Fri May 29, 2009 10:13 am
Gift-of-god wrote:Hetairos wrote:Gift-of-god wrote:Religion does not constitute an obstacle to science. Many early scientists (or natural philosophers as they were called then) were deeply religious people who were studying the natural world in order to prove god's existence/hand in creation/purpose/whatever.
Obstacles only arise when one field tries to claim a truth in the other's field. If, for example, I beleive Genesis is literally true, I am using religion tomake a claim about the natural world which is science's domain. My belief then becomes an obstacle to my understanding of Big Bang and evolutionary theories, as well as others. But, if I hold the belief that God is a rational being who created a rational world, and then created humanity in His image (i.e. rational), that would actually be a strong belief on which one could then construct the scientific method.
But unless you can use logic/reason/evidence to base your scientific ideas on, then everything you create using logic is completely worthless. In order for something to be logical, there need to be as few assumptions in it as possible.
The assumption that the world is rational is one of the few assumptions that science does make.
http://web.utk.edu/~dhasting/Basic_Assu ... cience.htm
It is a logical assumption to make, and so far, we have yet to be disappointed.
To tie it back to the OP, the belief in an orderly universe is one of the messages or themes presented in Genesis, i.e. God is described as a conscious being who goes about constructing the natural world in an orderly way. This underlying religious belief may have been the inspiration for the very similar assumption that science makes.
by Bottle » Fri May 29, 2009 10:25 am
Galloism wrote:It was brought up in the other thread that, in many cases, religions (of various creeds) have blocked scientific advancement. I don't deny that. It's a historical fact. The question I want to know is: why?
The reason this puzzles me is for this simple thought experiment:
Let's suppose you believe in God/gods/giant spaghetti monster/magic pink unicorns/whatever that created the universe.
Wouldn't you want to know how he did it? Wouldn't you want to know how this character set up the universe, the physical laws, the way that weather, astronomy, physics, chemistry, and biology work? Wouldn't you be interested at all in his creation? Wouldn't studying his creation be a good way of actually learning more about the individual in question? I mean, personally, when I go to a store and buy something new and interesting, the first thing I want to do is take it home and take it apart to see how it works. I don't always do it, but dammit I want to.
Ok, I've babbled. Come hither, NSG!
by Gift-of-god » Fri May 29, 2009 10:28 am
Hetairos wrote:But what I mean is that unless tou can logically show that creation happened, you cannot base any other logical explanations on it. How can you prove rationally even that god exists/existed? Just because the world is probably rational, it doesn't mean it had to be created by a divine being.
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