by Soyouso » Tue Sep 12, 2017 3:26 pm
by Technograt founder » Tue Sep 12, 2017 3:30 pm
Soyouso wrote:Is it right for a parent to make their religous beliefs (or nonbelief) a rule in the household? If one believes that they've found the way to salvation and true happiness, they're likely going to want to share that with their offspring, just like when parents tell their children about their own experiences to teach them a lesson and make them less likely to repeat their mistakes. A parent, ideally, wants what they see is best for them.
Let's say (for the sake of noting that this convesation applies to any religious belief, I'll use meme-cult placeholders) there's a family of four. Mom, dad, two tween sons. They are devout worshippers of, uh, I don't know, Shrek? And because they are sure about the Ogrelord being the true path to salvation, they taught their children all about him. The first son was unsure of Shrek's existance, while the second son believed immediately and happily followed. The first discovered the Flying Spaghetti Monster, and felt the hole of confusion in his life was filled with this newfound joy. So he tells his parents about his new floating pasta lord.
His parents grounded him for blaspheming Shrek and insisted he was brainwashed, even though he converted on his own will. They banned him from attending mass to praise the Flying Spaghetti Monster, and wouldn't let him do any of the acts to follow the new religion. If his friends believed in the Flying Spaghetti Monster, he had to tell them to pretend to be worshippers of Shrek since they wouldn't be allowed to hang out if his parents learned of it. They did everything in their power to try to make the child believe in Shrek again.
Are these parents, no matter what you replace 'Shrek' and 'Flying Spaghetti Monster' with, doing the right thing? Should it be legal, or is this an injustice?
Honestly, while I'm Christian, I'm not going to put pressure on my children, if I have them, to believe in Jesus Christ. Religious belief shouldn't be something that's forced on you, but something you genuinely find joy in and genuinely believe without being pressured. God knows whether you really love Him or not. So I'd tell them about God, but not react in a hostile way if they doubt.
If my child came to me and said they wanted to convert to Islam, a religion that, keep in mind, I am strongly against, here's what'd happen. If I could tell they made the decision by their own desire and not pressuring, they are well informed on Muslim beliefs by their own research into the texts, and they're older than 14 (age may vary depending on religion) - then I'd accept it. I'd be very upset for a while. But I wouldn't try to stop them from pursuing what they believe is the truth, because if they passed my requirements, they did this on their own. They're my child, and I'd still love them and treat them like I did before. If they didn't fit the requirements, then I'd go over Islam's beliefs and values with them, reading straight from the text, and showing them what Shariah law is like. This way, they see what it'd really be like from an unbiased source, untouched by both my disapproval of Islam and a street preacher's advocacy of it.
They should know, however, that if they start supporting terrorism, or doing or justifying fucked up activities because "Muhammad said it was okay", I'm not going to defend them in it. And, if they're supporting terrorism, I'm turning them in. If Christians can ignore verses that would result in hurting people for the sake of not hurting people, so should they. Same with any other religion, it's not a pass to break the law. Any child of mine would understand why having respect for other people is important, so I doubt I'd even hopefully have to deal with that.
But if I see it's a cult where their leader is a man with shades with an obsession with socialism who likes giving people Kool Aid, I'm grabbing my child's arm and getting the fuck out of there.
by Greater Cesnica » Tue Sep 12, 2017 3:30 pm
Soyouso wrote:Is it right for a parent to make their religous beliefs (or nonbelief) a rule in the household? If one believes that they've found the way to salvation and true happiness, they're likely going to want to share that with their offspring, just like when parents tell their children about their own experiences to teach them a lesson and make them less likely to repeat their mistakes. A parent, ideally, wants what they see is best for them.
Let's say (for the sake of noting that this convesation applies to any religious belief, I'll use meme-cult placeholders) there's a family of four. Mom, dad, two tween sons. They are devout worshippers of, uh, I don't know, Shrek? And because they are sure about the Ogrelord being the true path to salvation, they taught their children all about him. The first son was unsure of Shrek's existance, while the second son believed immediately and happily followed. The first discovered the Flying Spaghetti Monster, and felt the hole of confusion in his life was filled with this newfound joy. So he tells his parents about his new floating pasta lord.
His parents grounded him for blaspheming Shrek and insisted he was brainwashed, even though he converted on his own will. They banned him from attending mass to praise the Flying Spaghetti Monster, and wouldn't let him do any of the acts to follow the new religion. If his friends believed in the Flying Spaghetti Monster, he had to tell them to pretend to be worshippers of Shrek since they wouldn't be allowed to hang out if his parents learned of it. They did everything in their power to try to make the child believe in Shrek again.
Are these parents, no matter what you replace 'Shrek' and 'Flying Spaghetti Monster' with, doing the right thing? Should it be legal, or is this an injustice?
Honestly, while I'm Christian, I'm not going to put pressure on my children, if I have them, to believe in Jesus Christ. Religious belief shouldn't be something that's forced on you, but something you genuinely find joy in and genuinely believe without being pressured. God knows whether you really love Him or not. So I'd tell them about God, but not react in a hostile way if they doubt.
If my child came to me and said they wanted to convert to Islam, a religion that, keep in mind, I am strongly against, here's what'd happen. If I could tell they made the decision by their own desire and not pressuring, they are well informed on Muslim beliefs by their own research into the texts, and they're older than 14 (age may vary depending on religion) - then I'd accept it. I'd be very upset for a while. But I wouldn't try to stop them from pursuing what they believe is the truth, because if they passed my requirements, they did this on their own. They're my child, and I'd still love them and treat them like I did before. If they didn't fit the requirements, then I'd go over Islam's beliefs and values with them, reading straight from the text, and showing them what Shariah law is like. This way, they see what it'd really be like from an unbiased source, untouched by both my disapproval of Islam and a street preacher's advocacy of it.
They should know, however, that if they start supporting terrorism, or doing or justifying fucked up activities because "Muhammad said it was okay", I'm not going to defend them in it. And, if they're supporting terrorism, I'm turning them in. If Christians can ignore verses that would result in hurting people for the sake of not hurting people, so should they. Same with any other religion, it's not a pass to break the law. Any child of mine would understand why having respect for other people is important, so I doubt I'd even hopefully have to deal with that.
But if I see it's a cult where their leader is a man with shades with an obsession with socialism who likes giving people Kool Aid, I'm grabbing my child's arm and getting the fuck out of there.
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San Lumen wrote:You are ridiculous.George Orwell wrote:“That rifle on the wall of the labourer's cottage or working class flat is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there.”
by Ameteurial Outdated Philosophia » Tue Sep 12, 2017 3:35 pm
by Gauthier » Tue Sep 12, 2017 3:37 pm
by Dread Lady Nathicana » Tue Sep 12, 2017 3:38 pm
by Socio Polor » Tue Sep 12, 2017 3:41 pm
by Internationalist Bastard » Tue Sep 12, 2017 3:43 pm
by Mezonpotania » Tue Sep 12, 2017 3:45 pm
Internationalist Bastard wrote:I find the best solution to many things parenting is just do your best to love and support them and let them sort things out on their own
by Great Nepal » Tue Sep 12, 2017 3:50 pm
by The Rich Port » Tue Sep 12, 2017 3:51 pm
by Constantinopolis » Tue Sep 12, 2017 3:51 pm
by Internationalist Bastard » Tue Sep 12, 2017 3:53 pm
Constantinopolis wrote:Should Parents Have the Right to Force Children to Speak the Parents' Native Language?
Should Parents Have the Right to Force Children to Attend the Kindergarten or Primary School that the Parents want?
Should Parents Have the Right to Force Children to Wear the Clothes that the Parents Picked for Them?
Should Parents Have the Right to Force Children to Participate in Secular Cultural Practices that the Parents Participate in?
Yes, yes, yes, yes. Of course they should. Of course parents should have the right to teach children to follow the same beliefs and values and cultural practices - including religious ones - that the parents follow.
If the children don't like it, they can decide for themselves when they grow up. Not before.
by Constantinopolis » Tue Sep 12, 2017 3:55 pm
Internationalist Bastard wrote:Constantinopolis wrote:Should Parents Have the Right to Force Children to Speak the Parents' Native Language?
Should Parents Have the Right to Force Children to Attend the Kindergarten or Primary School that the Parents want?
Should Parents Have the Right to Force Children to Wear the Clothes that the Parents Picked for Them?
Should Parents Have the Right to Force Children to Participate in Secular Cultural Practices that the Parents Participate in?
Yes, yes, yes, yes. Of course they should. Of course parents should have the right to teach children to follow the same beliefs and values and cultural practices - including religious ones - that the parents follow.
If the children don't like it, they can decide for themselves when they grow up. Not before.
Well I think by the time they hit teens all of those are things should be up to them
by Saiwania » Tue Sep 12, 2017 3:58 pm
by Lancaster of Wessex » Tue Sep 12, 2017 4:01 pm
by Socio Polor » Tue Sep 12, 2017 4:02 pm
Internationalist Bastard wrote:I find the best solution to many things parenting is just do your best to love and support them and let them sort things out on their own
by Constantinopolis » Tue Sep 12, 2017 4:04 pm
Lancaster of Wessex wrote:You could have written: "Should parents have the right to force ________ belief?"
Parents are going to indoctrinate their children one-way-or-another, with whatever, be it religion, morals, ethics, etc. So long as Faith is taught in an open, respectful manner, and the child once they age are free to believe as they wish, I see no problem with it.
by Farnhamia » Tue Sep 12, 2017 4:04 pm
by The Rich Port » Tue Sep 12, 2017 4:15 pm
by Unknown Shores » Tue Sep 12, 2017 4:23 pm
by Socio Polor » Tue Sep 12, 2017 4:23 pm
by The Emerald Legion » Tue Sep 12, 2017 4:24 pm
The Rich Port wrote:A parent who forces their child to believe in something ridiculous is a bad parent.
My family has a history of forced belief, and it has been passed down the family line until it ended up at my desk.
The buck stops here, and it should stop with all parents.
As long as your kid doesn't become an Aztec warrior and start sacrificing other children to Quetzalcoatl or bombing abortion clinics or performing jihad, let them believe in whatever gods they want.
by United Muscovite Nations » Tue Sep 12, 2017 4:27 pm
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