Trump MAGAthread IX: Korea, The Dreamers and Trump

[Farnhamia]

People born within US jurisdiction are US citizens, but if they were born elsewhere, they aren't.
I'm not 100% sure how US waters work with this.

I think you missed the part where I said "born by ILLEGAL immigrants". You can't get instant free amnesty like that. The Constitution does not protect illegal aliens whether they're born in the U.S. or not. AGAIN. IL. LEGALS. What about those aliens who want to pay for a visa and be a naturalized citizen? How is that fair for them? "Dreamers" can't have their cake and eat it too.

Actually, anyone born in the US is a citizen, regardless of the citizenship status of their parents.

Curses, ninja'd.

[Seangoli]

Really? I would say it is indefensible to equate legality with morality. They should not be thought of as the same, and morality should always trump legality.

No. The law is the law, nobody is above it. Morality is subjective, the law is much, much less so.

Might I ask what your thoughts on the Joe Arpaio pardon are?

[Kekistonia]

Fair enough. Doesn't change the fact that Dreamers are here illegaly and have to go.

No one is arguing they are here illegally. People are arguing whether they have to go. They are also arguing that if the only law that they have broken is entering the us illegally (and often through no choice of their own), then there are better people to spend resources on, like those who are committing criminal rather then civil crimes.

Resources are best spent giving illegals the boot. They all must go.

[Camphuys Islands]

The Trump Presidency, getting rid of overcomplicated problems with easy solutions since 2017.

Time to party like it's November 9th 2016.

[Kekistonia]

No. The law is the law, nobody is above it. Morality is subjective, the law is much, much less so.

Might I ask what your thoughts on the Joe Arpaio pardon are?

I didn't like it. But that's irrelevant.

[Farnhamia]

No one is arguing they are here illegally. People are arguing whether they have to go. They are also arguing that if the only law that they have broken is entering the us illegally (and often through no choice of their own), then there are better people to spend resources on, like those who are committing criminal rather then civil crimes.

Resources are best spent giving illegals the boot. They all must go.

11 million people? That won't kick the economy in its most delicate gear, no, not at all.

[Ism]

Really? I would say it is indefensible to equate legality with morality. They should not be thought of as the same, and morality should always trump legality.

No. The law is the law, nobody is above it. Morality is subjective, the law is much, much less so.

So an unjust law must be followed? Regardless of what the consequences are?

[Internationalist Bastard]

The Trump Presidency, getting rid of overcomplicated problems with easy solutions since 2017.

Time to party like it's November 9th 2016.

(Image)

So what happened?

[Valrifell]

No. The law is the law, nobody is above it. Morality is subjective, the law is much, much less so.

So an unjust law must be followed? Regardless of what the consequences are?

This kind of hyperlegalist mentality is how we get the Holocaust, you know.

[Greater Cesnica]

Za new thread iz up!

[Kekistonia]

No. The law is the law, nobody is above it. Morality is subjective, the law is much, much less so.

So an unjust law must be followed? Regardless of what the consequences are?

Yes. If the US government constitutionally passes a law that a lot of people don't like, then tough sh*t.

[Farnhamia]

The Trump Presidency, getting rid of overcomplicated problems with easy solutions since 2017.

Time to party like it's November 9th 2016.

(Image)

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." ~ HL Mencken

[Camphuys Islands]

The Trump Presidency, getting rid of overcomplicated problems with easy solutions since 2017.

Time to party like it's November 9th 2016.

(Image)

So what happened?

Dreamer loophole destroyed.

[Staniel]

I think you missed the part where I said "born by ILLEGAL immigrants". You can't get instant free amnesty like that. The Constitution does not protect illegal aliens whether they're born in the U.S. or not. AGAIN. IL. LEGALS. What about those aliens who want to pay for a visa and be a naturalized citizen? How is that fair for them? "Dreamers" can't have their cake and eat it too.

Actually, anyone born in the US is a citizen, regardless of the citizenship status of their parents.

Curses, ninja'd.

So what? It still hasn't explicitly been told by the Supreme Court as to whether or not the children of illegal aliens are still allowed to become citizens. Assumptions are just that. Assumptions, not facts.

[Kekistonia]

So an unjust law must be followed? Regardless of what the consequences are?

This kind of hyperlegalist mentality is how we get the Holocaust, you know.

Godwin's law. Also, Godwin's law. Not to mention the huge issue with saying that the holocaust was legal.

[Internationalist Bastard]

So what happened?

Dreamer loophole destroyed.

The loophole is that they are technically committing an offense for no reason, not somebody tried to give them a chance to not be punished for a technicality

[Farnhamia]

Actually, anyone born in the US is a citizen, regardless of the citizenship status of their parents.

Curses, ninja'd.

So what? It still hasn't explicitly been told by the Supreme Court as to whether or not the children of illegal aliens are still allowed to become citizens. Assumptions are just that. Assumptions, not facts.

Except that these people are assumed to be and are treated as if they were. So are you going to tell all those people that their presumption that they were citizens was wrong, sorry, don't let the door hit you ... sorry, of course you will. Never mind.

[Camphuys Islands]

Dreamer loophole destroyed.

The loophole is that they are technically committing an offense for no reason, not somebody tried to give them a chance to not be punished for a technicality

It shouldn't be an excuse for just allowing everyone to move to a country. In Europe migrants who don't have a chance of actually being allowed to stay start having kids so that they can appeal to the 'humanity' of the population so that they can stay anyways.

It's hard but it's needed if you want a stable country.

[Valrifell]

This kind of hyperlegalist mentality is how we get the Holocaust, you know.

Godwin's law. Not to mention the huge issue with saying that the holocaust was legal.

The Holocaust was legal under German law. Also, Godwins Law is an observation, not something you can throw in a conversation as a "nah-uh I win!" It's not a fallacious or inacurrate assertion.

People following orders and laws above basic morality and decency is how we get atrocities in the world.

[Steffan]

Damn, I'm five pages late!
Lemme make a joke:
President Donald Trump

[Camphuys Islands]

Damn, I'm five pages late!
Lemme make a joke:
President Donald Trump

>Clinton Campaign

Try to beat that one :^)

[Internationalist Bastard]

The loophole is that they are technically committing an offense for no reason, not somebody tried to give them a chance to not be punished for a technicality

It shouldn't be an excuse for just allowing everyone to move to a country. In Europe migrants who don't have a chance of actually being allowed to stay start having kids so that they can appeal to the 'humanity' of the population so that they can stay anyways.

It's hard but it's needed if you want a stable country.

Dreamers are the ones who were born, not people who moved here and had kids

[Kekistonia]

Damn, I'm five pages late!
Lemme make a joke:
President Donald Trump

>Clinton Campaign

Try to beat that one :^)

yer mum

[Farnhamia]

Godwin's law. Not to mention the huge issue with saying that the holocaust was legal.

The Holocaust was legal under German law. Also, Godwins Law is an observation, not something you can throw in a conversation as a "nah-uh I win!" It's not a fallacious or inacurrate assertion.

People following orders and laws above basic morality and decency is how we get atrocities in the world.

And Nuremberg Principle II says, "The fact that internal law does not impose a penalty for an act which constitutes a crime under international law does not relieve the person who committed the act from responsibility under international law." One hopes we've advanced some since the 1930s and 1940s.

[Proctopeo]

It is unbelievable that people here are actually arguing against enforcing the law. This is undefendable.

Really? I would say it is indefensible to equate legality with morality. They should not be thought of as the same, and morality should always trump legality.

The largest obstacle when following morality is that it is subjective, and can be highly so. Whose morals do we follow when following morality?