Latin motto clinic

[Hyggemata]

Many Romans were literate in Greek, so you can simply transliterate and expect intelligent response.

When you do that, you don't transliterate, you keep it in the Greek alphabet and just pop it in, such as in Cicero: "quibus quaeris atque etiam me ipsum nescire arbitraris utrum magis tumulis prospectuque an ambulatione ἁλιτενεῖ delecter" (Ad Atticum 14.13).

あなたが。

But isn't it mentioned somewhere that someone complained that Latin was missing a participle of esse, so they borrowed it from Greek? The cognate participle would of course be either eōn (Mycenaean, e-o [*ehon]) or ōn (Attic).

And what about the plenitude of verbs ending in -μι, as well as the deponents or suppletives?

[Astrolinium]

When you do that, you don't transliterate, you keep it in the Greek alphabet and just pop it in, such as in Cicero: "quibus quaeris atque etiam me ipsum nescire arbitraris utrum magis tumulis prospectuque an ambulatione ἁλιτενεῖ delecter" (Ad Atticum 14.13).

あなたが。

But isn't it mentioned somewhere that someone complained that Latin was missing a participle of esse, so they borrowed it from Greek? The cognate participle would of course be either eōn (Mycenaean, e-o [*ehon]) or ōn (Attic).

And what about the plenitude of verbs ending in -μι, as well as the deponents or suppletives?

This is probably part of why, as stated above, the Romans really avoided borrowing Greek verbs at all costs. I don't think we have any extant -μι verbs or deponent Greek verbs borrowed wholecloth into Latin -- they either tend to get plopped in as is, fully Greek, the way I might throw in a bit of French to my speech in order to sound fancy, or you just find a suitable native Latin verb that means basically the same thing. Also, as far as I am aware, the only time Latin ended up with a participle for esse was post-classical, with ens popping up occasionally in the Middle Ages. Latin had its own functional ways of doing most anything you might want to do with a participle of esse.

[Gigaverse]

Say, if I want to borrow any Greek verb, how do I do it? Take the verb's stem and add a functionally corresponding Latin verb ending?

There's a good discussion on this here.

The long and short of it seems to be that you don't if you can at all avoid it, especially if it doesn't end in -izo. Otherwise, it seems you just make it a first conjugation verb based on the first principle part, minus any weirdness in the ending -- "-ao" and "-eo" endings in Greek become just "-o" in Latin, for example. Demetland may know more about this than I do.

Speaking of which,

I know I've been quite persistent with the -izo topic, but was it considered normal in Latin during the classical and the periods not long after antiquity to borrow -izo verbs from Greek? And, would -ifico suffice as a Latinate replacement?

[Demanams]

Forwards, we succeed

[Hyggemata]

There's a good discussion on this here.

The long and short of it seems to be that you don't if you can at all avoid it, especially if it doesn't end in -izo. Otherwise, it seems you just make it a first conjugation verb based on the first principle part, minus any weirdness in the ending -- "-ao" and "-eo" endings in Greek become just "-o" in Latin, for example. Demetland may know more about this than I do.

Speaking of which,

I know I've been quite persistent with the -izo topic, but was it considered normal in Latin during the classical and the periods not long after antiquity to borrow -izo verbs from Greek? And, would -ifico suffice as a Latinate replacement?

Since this is NS, you can do what you want

[Tracian Empire]

Not exactly a motto.. but how would you say Authority of Envy?

Much to my shame, I am supposed to learn Latin, but then, it's all mostly been just memorizing stuff for an exam, and forgetting everything afterwards.

Would it be auctoritas invidiae?

[Gigaverse]

Forwards, we succeed

Ante, succēdimus

Though a safer bet is await the confirmation of those other than me.

Not exactly a motto.. but how would you say Authority of Envy?

Much to my shame, I am supposed to learn Latin, but then, it's all mostly been just memorizing stuff for an exam, and forgetting everything afterwards.

Would it be auctoritas invidiae?

More likely than not, yes.

Speaking of which,

I know I've been quite persistent with the -izo topic, but was it considered normal in Latin during the classical and the periods not long after antiquity to borrow -izo verbs from Greek? And, would -ifico suffice as a Latinate replacement?

Since this is NS, you can do what you want

Meh, these questions I'm asking rarely serve solely NS purposes.

[Demetland]

Forwards, we succeed

This one is potentially quite vague, so I shall translate it with an imperative plural under the assumption that Forwards is meant to be an exclamation or imperative and not an adverb. We succeed can then be expressed with the subjunctive.

Thus: Inferte, superemus!

Which literally means something like 'Advance! We will/may we succeed!'

[Gigaverse]

Forwards, we succeed

This one is potentially quite vague, so I shall translate it with an imperative plural under the assumption that Forwards is meant to be an exclamation or imperative and not an adverb. We succeed can then be expressed with the subjunctive.

Thus: Inferte, superemus!

Which literally means something like 'Advance! We will/may we succeed!'

I was thinking more in terms of the statement being one supposedly of truth, that the success is guaranteed. I therefore chose the indicative, but I'm not quite sure whether my choice would be correct in that case. Oh well.

[Gigaverse]

How much can I rely on denizens of the thread to help me with Ancient Greek?

[Astrolinium]

How much can I rely on denizens of the thread to help me with Ancient Greek?

Hygg's the only one who I know has expertise in it -- there is an old, disused Ancient Greek clinic somewhere on here, but at this point, I think resurrecting it would just be gravedigging.

[Gigaverse]

How much can I rely on denizens of the thread to help me with Ancient Greek?

Hygg's the only one who I know has expertise in it -- there is an old, disused Ancient Greek clinic somewhere on here, but at this point, I think resurrecting it would just be gravedigging.

Hygg hasn't bee- oh, OK.

Just in case, can I ask for your help in that if needed in the future?

[Astrolinium]

Hygg's the only one who I know has expertise in it -- there is an old, disused Ancient Greek clinic somewhere on here, but at this point, I think resurrecting it would just be gravedigging.

Hygg hasn't bee- oh, OK.

Just in case, can I ask for your help in that if needed in the future?

Yeah. I have four semesters of Ancient Greek under my belt, it's just not my strong suit, so I can always see what I can do.

[Gigaverse]

Hygg hasn't bee- oh, OK.

Just in case, can I ask for your help in that if needed in the future?

Yeah. I have four semesters of Ancient Greek under my belt, it's just not my strong suit, so I can always see what I can do.

Okay, here goes:

If I combined θεός with ὁδός, would the form I get be θεόδος, or would θεό- behave like πρό in πρόοδος and give me the end result Θεόοδος?

[Astrolinium]

Yeah. I have four semesters of Ancient Greek under my belt, it's just not my strong suit, so I can always see what I can do.

Okay, here goes:

If I combined θεός with ὁδός, would the form I get be θεόδος, or would θεό- behave like πρό in πρόοδος and give me the end result Θεόοδος?

My gut instinct says the latter, but I really don't know. I'd suggest looking at how θεός compounds with any other words that begin with a rough breathing over a vowel, if there are any.

[Hyggemata]

What I found is this: θεοῖνος, which is a compound of θεός and οἶνος. I don't recall if Greek actually makes a distinction between rough and smooth breathings when combining vowels. We have διαρμαρτία, from διὰ and ἁμαρτία, which suggests that the final vowel of the prefix can merge with a following vowel despite the rough breathing.

But θεο is not a prepositional prefix, so anything goes, really.

Edit: it seems those prepositions that end in two vowels (that are not in diphthong) will combine the second with a following one, since three consecutive vowels seem too much for the Greeks.

[Gigaverse]

What I found is this: θεοίνος, which is a compound of θεός and οἶνος. I don't recall if Greek actually makes a distinction between rough and smooth breathings when combining vowels. We have διαρμαρτία, from διὰ and ἁμαρτία, which suggests that the final vowel of the prefix can merge with a following vowel despite the rough breathing.

But θεο is not a prepositional prefix, so anything goes, really.

So if the stress is obligatorily placed upon the omicron of θεο and ὁδός can never carry any diacritic in its combining form (at least, from what I've consistently observed), would that make the answer either θεόοδος or θεουδος (the latter of which I don't know how and where to write the accent)?

[Hyggemata]

What I found is this: θεοίνος, which is a compound of θεός and οἶνος. I don't recall if Greek actually makes a distinction between rough and smooth breathings when combining vowels. We have διαρμαρτία, from διὰ and ἁμαρτία, which suggests that the final vowel of the prefix can merge with a following vowel despite the rough breathing.

But θεο is not a prepositional prefix, so anything goes, really.

So if the stress is obligatorily placed upon the omicron of θεο and ὁδός can never carry any diacritic in its combining form (at least, from what I've consistently observed), would that make the answer either θεόοδος or θεουδος (the latter of which I don't know how and where to write the accent)?

As a rule, the accent (not stress) will not regress pass the final syllable of the prefixed preposition. But since θεο is not a real preposition...

So in this case if you choose not to contract the resulting θεόοδος, that is where the acute goes, or if you do contract, it would be θεοῦδος, since the ultima is short and the long penult must take circumflex.

Edit: if you're wondering what the difference is between a circumflex and an acute, a circumflex can only appear on a long vowel and represent a combined acute and grave accent, so οῦ can be written out phonetically as όὺ.

[Gigaverse]

It seems those prepositions that end in two vowels (that are not in diphthong) will combine the second with a following one, since three consecutive vowels seem too much for the Greeks.

i mean there's always θεουργία... (even if that example is probably much later than the time of Attic Greek, and also rather unorthodox)

So in this case if you choose not to contract the resulting θεόοδος, that is where the acute goes, or if you do contract, it would be θεοῦδος, since the ultima is short and the long penult must take circumflex.

θεοῦδος

that's a weird accent...

i'm stupid so i may need an explanation regarding that one (and why it's written like that)

[Hyggemata]

ἔλεξα νοῦν σου!!!

[Gigaverse]

ἔλεξα νοῦν σου!!!

meh, just glad i finally got rid of the dilemma haunting me for the last few days

EURE-MOTHERFUCKING-KA IT'S ΘΕΟΥΔΟΣ MOM I LOVE YOU

[Hyggemata]

i'm stupid so i may need an explanation regarding that one (and why it's written like that)

Well in Greek, there are two accentuation patterns.

First you determine where the accent is. For verbs, the accent recedes to the left as far as the rules permit. The accent can only stand on one of the three final syllables. The accent cannot stand on the third-to-last (antepenult) if the last (ultima) is long. You find where the accent is before you contract vowels. For nouns, there is a "lexical" position, which means you need to memorize where the accent goes, and there are some patterns to guide you if you forget. The accent "persists" on its lexical position unless forbidden by a rule, in which case the accent either changes or advances (to the right) as appropriate. And you also determine where the accent is before you contract. Then you determine what type of accent it should be. If the accent is on the antepenult, it is always acute. If the accent is on a long penult, and the ultima is short, it is circumflex; if the ultima is long, then it is acute. Accents on the ultima are generally acute, unless it is the product of a contraction, in which case an acute can merge with a following vowel to become circumflex. Finally, if the acute on the ultima is not followed by a punctuation or an enclitic, it becomes a grave. If there is a monosyllabic enclitic following a grave, it turns back into an acute. If there is a monosyllabic enclitic...


(goes on for pages)

[Gigaverse]

-snip-

it's a circumflex

[Hyggemata]

-snip-

it's a circumflex

But you understand why it has to be a circumflex, right?

[Gigaverse]

it's a circumflex

But you understand why it has to be a circumflex, right?

Basically, yes. Though I can't say I'd memorize.