by Barfobulville » Thu May 28, 2009 9:10 pm
by Takaram » Thu May 28, 2009 9:12 pm
by Vetalia » Thu May 28, 2009 9:13 pm
by Falsonia » Thu May 28, 2009 9:15 pm
Takaram wrote:No, its the same thing. Exactly the same
Vetalia wrote:Absolutely not. Flat out absolutely not acceptable. To be honest, evangelical atheists seem to be a lot ruder, a lot more arrogant, and a lot less willing to respect the beliefs of others than religious evangelicals. Maybe it's just the Dawkins effect, but other than Daniel Dennett I really don't see a lot of people that manage to make their points without being jerks.
by Takaram » Thu May 28, 2009 9:17 pm
Vetalia wrote:Absolutely not. Flat out absolutely not acceptable. To be honest, evangelical atheists seem to be a lot ruder, a lot more arrogant, and a lot less willing to respect the beliefs of others than religious evangelicals. Maybe it's just the Dawkins effect, but other than Daniel Dennett I really don't see a lot of people that manage to make their points without being jerks.
by NERVUN » Thu May 28, 2009 9:18 pm
by Bucklavaria » Thu May 28, 2009 9:20 pm
Vetalia wrote:Absolutely not. Flat out absolutely not acceptable. To be honest, evangelical atheists seem to be a lot ruder, a lot more arrogant, and a lot less willing to respect the beliefs of others than religious evangelicals. Maybe it's just the Dawkins effect, but other than Daniel Dennett I really don't see a lot of people that manage to make their points without being jerks.
by Northwest Slobovia » Thu May 28, 2009 9:21 pm
by Free Soviets » Thu May 28, 2009 9:22 pm
Barfobulville wrote:It is very clear that it is unacceptable, in this forum and in the world, for a believer of some religion to try to impose his views onto others who do not hold those same beliefs. My question is this: is it kosher (pun intended) for a nonbeliever to try to impose his views on a believer? Why or why not?
by Barfobulville » Thu May 28, 2009 9:31 pm
Free Soviets wrote:Barfobulville wrote:It is very clear that it is unacceptable, in this forum and in the world, for a believer of some religion to try to impose his views onto others who do not hold those same beliefs. My question is this: is it kosher (pun intended) for a nonbeliever to try to impose his views on a believer? Why or why not?
this looks like weasel words to me. do you mean 'impose' in the sense of forcing people to give the outward signs of personally believing x on pain of punishment, or merely being occasionally subjected to arguments for x?
by Vojvodina-Nihon » Thu May 28, 2009 9:35 pm
Northwest Slobovia wrote:Well, in some sense, those of us who believe in tolerance impose that view on people who don't. ;)
by Falsonia » Thu May 28, 2009 9:36 pm
Vojvodina-Nihon wrote:Northwest Slobovia wrote:Well, in some sense, those of us who believe in tolerance impose that view on people who don't.
I know! Why do the supposedly tolerant lack tolerance towards intolerant people? That's racism! Well, not racism exactly, but something ism! Something bad ism!
by Barfobulville » Thu May 28, 2009 9:39 pm
Falsonia wrote:Vojvodina-Nihon wrote:Northwest Slobovia wrote:Well, in some sense, those of us who believe in tolerance impose that view on people who don't.
I know! Why do the supposedly tolerant lack tolerance towards intolerant people? That's racism! Well, not racism exactly, but something ism! Something bad ism!
It's intolerance. Hypocrisy, too, but that's a less amusing answer.
by Free Soviets » Thu May 28, 2009 9:39 pm
Barfobulville wrote:Free Soviets wrote:Barfobulville wrote:It is very clear that it is unacceptable, in this forum and in the world, for a believer of some religion to try to impose his views onto others who do not hold those same beliefs. My question is this: is it kosher (pun intended) for a nonbeliever to try to impose his views on a believer? Why or why not?
this looks like weasel words to me. do you mean 'impose' in the sense of forcing people to give the outward signs of personally believing x on pain of punishment, or merely being occasionally subjected to arguments for x?
More towards the latter
by Falsonia » Thu May 28, 2009 9:40 pm
Barfobulville wrote:Well, if it is intolerance, why do you think that's bad? I thought your whole point was that you don't believe in tolerance.
by Barfobulville » Thu May 28, 2009 9:41 pm
Falsonia wrote:Barfobulville wrote:Well, if it is intolerance, why do you think that's bad? I thought your whole point was that you don't believe in tolerance.
...
Where do you get that from?
by Soyut » Thu May 28, 2009 9:42 pm
by Falsonia » Thu May 28, 2009 9:42 pm
Barfobulville wrote:Falsonia wrote:Barfobulville wrote:Well, if it is intolerance, why do you think that's bad? I thought your whole point was that you don't believe in tolerance.
...
Where do you get that from?
Sorry Falsonia, I was referring to the first fellow
by Vojvodina-Nihon » Thu May 28, 2009 9:45 pm
Free Soviets wrote:Barfobulville wrote:Free Soviets wrote:this looks like weasel words to me. do you mean 'impose' in the sense of forcing people to give the outward signs of personally believing x on pain of punishment, or merely being occasionally subjected to arguments for x?
More towards the latter
then i completely disagree. if anything, there is a duty to 'impose' our beliefs on everyone who cares to enter into public discourse. and there is no foul in having that spill over into those who don't care to argue, either.
by Barfobulville » Thu May 28, 2009 9:46 pm
Free Soviets wrote:Barfobulville wrote:Free Soviets wrote:this looks like weasel words to me. do you mean 'impose' in the sense of forcing people to give the outward signs of personally believing x on pain of punishment, or merely being occasionally subjected to arguments for x?
More towards the latter
then i completely disagree. if anything, there is a duty to 'impose' our beliefs on everyone who cares to enter into public discourse. and there is no foul in having that spill over into those who don't care to argue, either.
by Bavin » Thu May 28, 2009 9:47 pm
Soyut wrote:Atheist have no right to impose their nonbeliefs on others. That's why I support teaching kids every theory of creation and them letting them decide. Its the only way to be fair to the children without imposing on them.
by Soyut » Thu May 28, 2009 9:49 pm
Bavin wrote:Soyut wrote:Atheist have no right to impose their nonbeliefs on others. That's why I support teaching kids every theory of creation and them letting them decide. Its the only way to be fair to the children without imposing on them.
You can't say somethings a theory if there is no evidence...
by Falsonia » Thu May 28, 2009 9:49 pm
Barfobulville wrote:That is the first time I have heard it put that way. Interesting
by Vojvodina-Nihon » Thu May 28, 2009 9:50 pm
Soyut wrote:Bavin wrote:Soyut wrote:Atheist have no right to impose their nonbeliefs on others. That's why I support teaching kids every theory of creation and them letting them decide. Its the only way to be fair to the children without imposing on them.
You can't say somethings a theory if there is no evidence...
The bible is evidence.
by Falsonia » Thu May 28, 2009 9:51 pm
Soyut wrote:Bavin wrote:Soyut wrote:Atheist have no right to impose their nonbeliefs on others. That's why I support teaching kids every theory of creation and them letting them decide. Its the only way to be fair to the children without imposing on them.
You can't say somethings a theory if there is no evidence...
The bible is evidence.
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