Infantry Discussion Thread 10: Shovel Edition [NO FWORDS]

[Kazarogkai]

I do not understand please be more relatable

I believe he's referencing the fact that the weapon, If i'am correct, is called a Fagot. This is the thing I think he is talking about:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9K111_Fagot

[Rhodesialund]

I do not understand please be more relatable

I believe he's referencing the fact that the weapon, If i'am correct, is called a Fagot. This is the thing I think he is talking about:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9K111_Fagot

Nice job shitting on the party.

[Puzikas]

Fun ist verboden

[Fordorsia]

[NO FAGOTS]

inb4 homophobia charge even tho I love dick

[Federated Kingdom of Prussia]

That's a broad question.

More narrow: why did generals assume that attacking infantry had a huge advantage? I remember reading a pdf document that gave some pretty good reasons why the bayonet was thought to be very important in infantry combat, but I can't remember those reasons.

[Puzikas]

Because at no point in history had the opposite been true

The only time attacking infantry didn't have the advantage against whatever was in it's way was in the cases of fortresses, which were smashed by artillery and THEN attacked, or just encircled and starved.

When you have a staff of senior officers who have trained to fight a totally different war and not kept Pace with technology these things happen. The Russo-Japan war showcased what was to come, and had more people paid attention to it then world war I might have looked a bit different.

-There was a very prevalent thought that the maximum range of a cartridge was vastly important. Not effectove, but maximum, fired from any angle in ideal conditions in which the termination of the projectiles flight path has reached the end of that which is possible under all physical constraints.
The Vickers had an effective direct fire range of about 1000m for point and about 2200m for area sized targets, but the Vickers and Enfeilds both had MAXIMUM ranges of some 4,800 yards.
Maj. Gen. (Then Colonel IIRC) Hatcher, US Ordinance made the US change its ENTIRE SERVICE CARTRIDGE because he felt the maximum range was shit; this netted us the glorious .30-06 but really drives hone how important that volly fire idea was to many nations.

-Machine Guns were understood by mostly colonial Troops and commanders; the guys who REALLY knew their abilities were all those Infantry NCOs and officers who fought in colonial wars. You know who loved Machine Guns?
Paul Von Lettow-Vorbeck, General of the German African Schutztruppe. He was an enormously effective general for many reasons, and Machine Guns are not cheif among these, but his tactical use of the German MG-08 and captured British Vickers and Lewis guns certainly showcased an understanding of how to truely vital they are to Infantry operations.
In addition, I have more information on the cavalry story.

A Non-Commisioned officer named Edward Spears, of the 11th Hussars, was placed in command of the Machine Gun section. He was told to "put his tired contraptions (the guns) to good use" during exercise. With that goal in mind, he strategically placed his Vickers on a position with excellent view of the Brigade undergoing manuvers, set up Ines of retreat and containment, and fired away for ten minutes.
At the formation.
No one paid him any mind. He, having fired enough ammunition to kill all 2,000 men of the bridage and its horses at least twice over, approached the commander and declared jubilantly, "I say, You are all dead, sir!"

To which the Brigade commander responded:

Never, never have I seen a lack of Cavalry spirit more blatantly displayed. Here is a young Cavalry officer who has the impertinence to say that the Infantry weapons, that he is so inappropriately carting about, has wiped out the first cavalry Brigade, the finest mounted force in Europe. Get off your horse sir, and hand it over and walk back to the barracks, the proper form of locomotion for you.

Because war is hell, but prepping for war is hellish.

[Federated Kingdom of Prussia]

Was re-reading those responses from the earlier thread. So if the bayonet's 'reach gap' was seriously considered to be a problem in infantry combat, how quickly did shorter weapons like shovels and fighting knives overtake the bayonet?

[Austrasien]

Was re-reading those responses from the earlier thread. So if the bayonet's 'reach gap' was seriously considered to be a problem in infantry combat, how quickly did shorter weapons like shovels and fighting knives overtake the bayonet?

They didn't.

[Theodosiya]

Is it a good idea to use ammo belts for LMG/IAR? (In sense of open, not in mags or canvas, and wrapped around body.)

[Fordorsia]

Is it a good idea to use ammo belts for LMG/IAR? (In sense of open, not in mags or canvas, and wrapped around body.)

Wrapping it around the gun will just jam it when the belt catches on something. Just let it all hang out when you shoulder it. It's not ideal but it will work unless the belt is full of shit.

[Theodosiya]

That's why i say wrap around body, Rambo style.

[Laritaia]

that was just a way of carrying the ammo, it wasn't actually fed into the gun liek that

[The Akasha Colony]

Is it a good idea to use ammo belts for LMG/IAR? (In sense of open, not in mags or canvas, and wrapped around body.)

Belts wrapped around the body was just a way to carry spare rounds. It wouldn't be carried like that when it's fed into the gun because it'll just catch on something and jam. When being fed, it'd either be left to hang on its own or ideally in a magazine or canvas pouch, because this prevents it from catching on anything.

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

Time for Art Alphin again?

[Puzikas]

That's basically false tho
I mean yeah they did mostly but troops totally just cary loose belts across the shoulders or neck because it's e a s y

[Gallia-]

Time for Art Alphin again?

i mean

it's not like it's unknown for art alphin to be wrong

he basically scammed three towns of money or w/e

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A-Square

[Free-Don]

Is it a good idea to use ammo belts for LMG/IAR? (In sense of open, not in mags or canvas, and wrapped around body.)

It makes sense to carry ammo in belt for belt-fed weapons as carrying ammo around the body is an easy way to distribute weight and have ammo easily accessible for loading when you can't be supplied ammo carriers, slings, etc.

But when we're talking about IARs which are mostly box magazine feed weapons there aren't any real reason to. You might as well just stick the bullets stripper clips and stuff it all into a cheap bandoleer.

[Husseinarti]

We were told you can carry belts like that, however you have to kind of be careful with it if you were to drop it into dirt or w/e you can get jams from that.

[Gallia-]

We were told you can carry belts like that, however you have to kind of be careful with it if you were to drop it into dirt or w/e you can get jams from that.

tl;dr dont bayonet assault course like this

oh wait moderns

rip on the battlefields of tomorrow when they confront water cooled machine guns and entrenched light infantry

[Rhodesialund]

We were told you can carry belts like that, however you have to kind of be careful with it if you were to drop it into dirt or w/e you can get jams from that.

tl;dr dont bayonet assault course like this

oh wait moderns

rip on the battlefields of tomorrow when they confront water cooled machine guns and entrenched light infantry

We are coming full circle, aren't we?

[Gallia-]

Not in the slightest unless you're only looking at things superficially.

[Rhodesialund]

Not in the slightest unless you're only looking at things superficially.

I usually look at things superficially for comedic reasons.

[United Dixieland Territories]

Upon further review, I have decided to redo all my classical .30 caliber cartridges. In short summary, I got to fire an incredible antique within recent months and Dear Sweet Merciful Lord I must say that .318 Westley Richards is one of the more beautiful cartridges ever graced upon a deeply unworthy humanity.

[Rhodesialund]

Upon further review, I have decided to redo all my classical .30 caliber cartridges. In short summary, I got to fire an incredible antique within recent months and Dear Sweet Merciful Lord I must say that .318 Westley Richards is one of the more beautiful cartridges ever graced upon a deeply unworthy humanity.


(Image)

Don't you mean the .45-70 Government, the only gub'mint people trust?

[United Dixieland Territories]

Don't you mean the .45-70 Government, the only gub'mint people trust?

No, I in fact do not.