[R][D] P2TM "character app thread" Spam

[Swith Witherward]

As summer draws closer, I'm seeing a new crop of "character app" threads springing up in the P2TM subforum. These threads are labeled "archive" and are additional to the RP's IC and OOC threads.

In P2TM, archive threads are necessary for older, established games with much generated world/setting content/IC history, or newer games that start out with a large amount of lore. The archive thread houses everything setting-related that would normally clutter up the first few pages in an OOC. They're treated like a codex or supplemental index. (I'd suggest placing these on an OSF, but too many players have problems accessing some of the free board hosting providers.)

Data often includes: the world's physics; bestiary listing; religion/s; political systems; maps; NPC faction breakdown (guilds, bands, leadership, structure); location descriptions; descriptions of magical schools or spheres; any data necessary for players to utilize while in the game's setting. Character information might also be found therein but these are usually a biography written by the player or OP to describe the character (apart from the actual application in the OOC), with links to the OOC thread post containing the application. Game mechanics (point allotments, rules, OP expectations of players, posting requirements etc) are kept in the OOC thread.

To the best of my knowledge, this community practice goes back to when the P2TM subforum was split from F7. We had to be on our toes and not spam; we had to prove we were capable of not flooding servers. We were allowed an IC and an OOC thread. Extra threads weren't allowed. Archive threads arose out of general need (for the reasons I mentioned above) and were blessed by Mods provided those threads were utilized to house what I've described above and not just character apps. I see no reason to change this practice.

An example for a newer game that properly uses an archive thread for lore: Age of Change.

Example for a megathread: archive thread.

Threads "just for character apps to be copied to" are superfluous spam. We have OOC threads for character app storage. OP need to take responsibility for their game and OOC thread by incorporating a character listing into their first OOC posts. This listing can have links to the applications within the OOC thread. Players can also "store" unused and current characters in their embedded factbook, as well.

Some examples of good OP tracking efforts include Talchyon's cast list, North Daecon's extensive (and spoilered) accepted characters list, and The V O I D's hero/villain and human listings.

For all these reasons, I'm requesting a lock for the following "only character application storage" threads: (Apps are located in the OOC as well)
viewtopic.php?f=31&t=412489
viewtopic.php?f=31&t=410619
viewtopic.php?f=31&t=412119
viewtopic.php?f=31&t=410312
viewtopic.php?f=31&t=411741
viewtopic.php?f=31&t=411485
viewtopic.php?f=31&t=410627
viewtopic.php?f=31&t=408906
viewtopic.php?f=31&t=384876
viewtopic.php?f=31&t=409003 (an "IC" question and answer page outside of the game's actual IC and OOC thread, and its archive thread)
viewtopic.php?f=31&t=407695
viewtopic.php?f=31&t=352641

The argument could be made that OP could post codex data in their OOC and link to those posts in their initial OP. I've personally tried doing this... I ran out of character limits for "basic description and link" entries. This is a rare thing which is why archives for RP games are rare to stumble across.

I did not use the spam/lock megathreads because my focus is on clarifying policy rather than reporting just a few threads. Please let me know if your views have changed regarding superfluous threads.

*leaves cookies*

EDIT: I've marked this as a discussion as well. Other players may want to ask questions but fear a newspaper slap for posting in a report thread. As Esty said, we're here to help you learn coding, and can offer all sorts of guidance regarding OOC thread organization.

[Kyrusia]

Looking over these. Patience is appreciated.

[Gurori]

I'd just like to explain that some of these "archive threads" are being used to keep things clean and tidy, as well as keeping track of character stats.

But that's all I can really do in the defence of these "archive threads".

It would be appreciated if there were a notice regarding these kinds of threads, if there already is one then it likely hasn't been noticed.

[Kyrusia]

The threads deemed purely superfluous have been locked.

For clarification... Archive threads are acceptable, but they should contain some manner of added detail or otherwise be a novel collation of worldbuilding information (yes, this may include character biographies, but they need to constitute a qualitative addition, not simply a duplication) involving a roleplay. If it is simply a duplication of information, it is going to be locked.

Furthermore, some things simply do not belong on the forums. An example would be a dossier of a player's characters across multiple roleplays or projects; players that wish to do this should house them in their factbooks/dispatches.

As always, these will be judged on a case-by-case basis.

[Gurori]

The threads deemed purely superfluous have been locked.

For clarification... Archive threads are acceptable, but they should contain some manner of added detail or otherwise be a novel collation of worldbuilding information (yes, this may include character biographies, but they need to constitute a qualitative addition, not simply a duplication) involving a roleplay. If it is simply a duplication of information, it is going to be locked.

Beyond this, some things simply do not belong on the forum. If folks want to keep a running archive of their characters, that can be housed in their dispatches/factbooks.

Ah, that makes sense.

Alright, thanks for clarifying. Maybe it'd be good to write up and sticky a reminder in P2TM?

[Swith Witherward]

We can add it to the Welcome thread. I'd like Kyru's input on wording it before making any changes to the existing info, though.

Thanks, Kyru. Much appreciated.

[Rhodevus]

What about archive threads that will have information added over time, over the course of the roleplay? This is in regards to The Fallen Jedi's Interstellar Retribution RP, which only began a few days ago, but new information pertaining to the many different species, characters, factions and empires are to be added to as the story progresses.

At the moment, due to its infancy, all that is being added is the applications, but over time, I believe that this archive especially will have added content.

[Kyrusia]

What about archive threads that will have information added over time, over the course of the roleplay? This is in regards to The Fallen Jedi's Interstellar Retribution RP, which only began a few days ago, but new information pertaining to the many different species, characters, factions and empires are to be added to as the story progresses.

At the moment, due to its infancy, all that is being added is the applications, but over time, I believe that this archive especially will have added content.

If it is simply application duplications, it is likely to be locked. If you'd like to invite your players to write-up character biographies that contain pertinent information beyond what an application contains, that would be more acceptable. Beyond that, player's can simply edit their applications in an OOC thread at a later date, preserving the original inside of a spoiler or quote.

[Zanera]

What about archive threads that will have information added over time, over the course of the roleplay? This is in regards to The Fallen Jedi's Interstellar Retribution RP, which only began a few days ago, but new information pertaining to the many different species, characters, factions and empires are to be added to as the story progresses.

At the moment, due to its infancy, all that is being added is the applications, but over time, I believe that this archive especially will have added content.

If it is simply application duplications, it is likely to be locked. If you'd like to invite your players to write-up character biographies that contain pertinent information beyond what an application contains, that would be more acceptable. Beyond that, player's can simply edit their applications in an OOC thread at a later date, preserving the original inside of a spoiler or quote.

So the Eroris lore thread which contains descriptions of religions/a bestiary/provincial descriptions/race descriptions among other things is perfectly acceptable?

It contains already-established lore that will probably get stuff added onto it over time as people make more lore over what I assume will be future RPs.

It's Everhall's stuff, but I guess I can inquire for him since he's not on so much right now, and I've participated before in writing further lore and also by participating in both RPs.

[Gurori]

Well on the subject of roleplay threads then.

The entire archive thread has gotten me thinking, archive threads are only acceptable if a roleplay absolutely needs one. So wouldn't that mean that secondary OOC/IC threads are only needed if absolutely necessary?

I have noticed that the following roleplays of which I have participated in have multiple IC threads, all of which don't even breach 100 pages.

viewtopic.php?f=31&t=362942
viewtopic.php?f=31&t=394873
viewtopic.php?f=31&t=376503

Yes, I am aware of the fact that I am reporting my own roleplay in this. I am not expecting serious action to be taken, but rather for said IC threads to be merged into a single thread. I am also aware that two of the roleplays listed are not even active anymore.

(That and the third of the listed roleplays are already locked)

[Grenartia]

I also would like to ask if this new ruling applies to RPs that have multiple IC threads. Back when Excalibur Squadron was active, we had different IC threads for each mission, and one for the home base.

[New Rnclave]

I also would like to ask if this new ruling applies to RPs that have multiple IC threads. Back when Excalibur Squadron was active, we had different IC threads for each mission, and one for the home base.

I was gonna ask this too.

My RP, Dragonball Universe, runs a new IC for each successive saga or arc, so I guess it's kinda important we find out if this effects us.

[Britanania]

I also would like to ask if this new ruling applies to RPs that have multiple IC threads. Back when Excalibur Squadron was active, we had different IC threads for each mission, and one for the home base.

I was gonna ask this too.

My RP, Dragonball Universe, runs a new IC for each successive saga or arc, so I guess it's kinda important we find out if this effects us.

The HP RP I'm in does the same thing, each year is a different IC. It would really mess with things if this changed.

[Kyrusia]

So the Eroris lore thread which contains descriptions of religions/a bestiary/provincial descriptions/race descriptions among other things is perfectly acceptable?

It contains already-established lore that will probably get stuff added onto it over time as people make more lore over what I assume will be future RPs.

It's Everhall's stuff, but I guess I can inquire for him since he's not on so much right now, and I've participated before in writing further lore and also by participating in both RPs.

It does not appear to be a duplication of pre-existing information (spam), but a collation of novel information for an ongoing roleplay or roleplay series (archive). Looking at it, I'd say it's fine.

Well on the subject of roleplay threads then.

The entire archive thread has gotten me thinking, archive threads are only acceptable if a roleplay absolutely needs one. So wouldn't that mean that secondary OOC/IC threads are only needed if absolutely necessary?

I have noticed that the following roleplays of which I have participated in have multiple IC threads, all of which don't even breach 100 pages.

viewtopic.php?f=31&t=362942
viewtopic.php?f=31&t=394873
viewtopic.php?f=31&t=376503

Yes, I am aware of the fact that I am reporting my own roleplay in this. I am not expecting serious action to be taken, but rather for said IC threads to be merged into a single thread. I am also aware that two of the roleplays listed are not even active anymore.

(That and the third of the listed roleplays are already locked)

I also would like to ask if this new ruling applies to RPs that have multiple IC threads. Back when Excalibur Squadron was active, we had different IC threads for each mission, and one for the home base.

I also would like to ask if this new ruling applies to RPs that have multiple IC threads. Back when Excalibur Squadron was active, we had different IC threads for each mission, and one for the home base.

I was gonna ask this too.

My RP, Dragonball Universe, runs a new IC for each successive saga or arc, so I guess it's kinda important we find out if this effects us.

I was gonna ask this too.

My RP, Dragonball Universe, runs a new IC for each successive saga or arc, so I guess it's kinda important we find out if this effects us.

The HP RP I'm in does the same thing, each year is a different IC. It would really mess with things if this changed.

Completely reasonable questions with valid concerns. The described situations are more nebulous, however, and - as ever - individual cases are judged individually.

If a roleplay/OP is constantly making threads, regardless of whether they are IC or OOC, they may get merged and/or locked as spam if it becomes burdensome - such as it being done every other day with seemingly no rhyme or reason, simply because the OP has gotten tired of one and wants a new one. If you're running separate missions or separate IC threads for a different saga, arc, etc., you're most likely going to be fine, just keep things reasonable (there's no reason to make a new thread because Bob went on a date with Sue [a subplot], but a new IC thread to mark the entry of a new major villain into an RP series, sure). Similarly, if you're restarting one of your roleplays, it's completely reasonable to make a new thread for that if so desired.

[Britanania]

So the Eroris lore thread which contains descriptions of religions/a bestiary/provincial descriptions/race descriptions among other things is perfectly acceptable?

It contains already-established lore that will probably get stuff added onto it over time as people make more lore over what I assume will be future RPs.

It's Everhall's stuff, but I guess I can inquire for him since he's not on so much right now, and I've participated before in writing further lore and also by participating in both RPs.

It does not appear to be a duplication of pre-existing information (spam), but a collation of information for an ongoing roleplay or roleplay series (archive). Looking at it, I'd say it's fine.

Well on the subject of roleplay threads then.

The entire archive thread has gotten me thinking, archive threads are only acceptable if a roleplay absolutely needs one. So wouldn't that mean that secondary OOC/IC threads are only needed if absolutely necessary?

I have noticed that the following roleplays of which I have participated in have multiple IC threads, all of which don't even breach 100 pages.

viewtopic.php?f=31&t=362942
viewtopic.php?f=31&t=394873
viewtopic.php?f=31&t=376503

Yes, I am aware of the fact that I am reporting my own roleplay in this. I am not expecting serious action to be taken, but rather for said IC threads to be merged into a single thread. I am also aware that two of the roleplays listed are not even active anymore.

(That and the third of the listed roleplays are already locked)

I also would like to ask if this new ruling applies to RPs that have multiple IC threads. Back when Excalibur Squadron was active, we had different IC threads for each mission, and one for the home base.

I was gonna ask this too.

My RP, Dragonball Universe, runs a new IC for each successive saga or arc, so I guess it's kinda important we find out if this effects us.

The HP RP I'm in does the same thing, each year is a different IC. It would really mess with things if this changed.

Completely reasonable questions with valid concerns. The described situations are more nebulous, however, and - as ever - individual cases are judged individually.

If a roleplay/OP is constantly making threads, regardless of whether they are IC or OOC, they may get merged and/or locked as spam if it becomes burdensome - such as it being done every other day with seemingly no rhyme or reason, simply because the OP has gotten tired of one and wants a new one. If you're running separate missions or separate IC threads for a different saga, arch, etc., you're most likely going to be fine, just keep things reasonable (there's no reason to make a new thread because Bob went on a date with Sue [a subplot], but a new IC thread to mark the entry of a new major villain into an RP series, sure). Similarly, if you're restarting one of your roleplays, it's completely reasonable to make a new thread for that is so desired.

Okay, that makes sense. Thanks!

[Grenartia]

So the Eroris lore thread which contains descriptions of religions/a bestiary/provincial descriptions/race descriptions among other things is perfectly acceptable?

It contains already-established lore that will probably get stuff added onto it over time as people make more lore over what I assume will be future RPs.

It's Everhall's stuff, but I guess I can inquire for him since he's not on so much right now, and I've participated before in writing further lore and also by participating in both RPs.

It does not appear to be a duplication of pre-existing information (spam), but a collation of information for an ongoing roleplay or roleplay series (archive). Looking at it, I'd say it's fine.

Well on the subject of roleplay threads then.

The entire archive thread has gotten me thinking, archive threads are only acceptable if a roleplay absolutely needs one. So wouldn't that mean that secondary OOC/IC threads are only needed if absolutely necessary?

I have noticed that the following roleplays of which I have participated in have multiple IC threads, all of which don't even breach 100 pages.

viewtopic.php?f=31&t=362942
viewtopic.php?f=31&t=394873
viewtopic.php?f=31&t=376503

Yes, I am aware of the fact that I am reporting my own roleplay in this. I am not expecting serious action to be taken, but rather for said IC threads to be merged into a single thread. I am also aware that two of the roleplays listed are not even active anymore.

(That and the third of the listed roleplays are already locked)

I also would like to ask if this new ruling applies to RPs that have multiple IC threads. Back when Excalibur Squadron was active, we had different IC threads for each mission, and one for the home base.

I was gonna ask this too.

My RP, Dragonball Universe, runs a new IC for each successive saga or arc, so I guess it's kinda important we find out if this effects us.

The HP RP I'm in does the same thing, each year is a different IC. It would really mess with things if this changed.

Completely reasonable questions with valid concerns. The described situations are more nebulous, however, and - as ever - individual cases are judged individually.

If a roleplay/OP is constantly making threads, regardless of whether they are IC or OOC, they may get merged and/or locked as spam if it becomes burdensome - such as it being done every other day with seemingly no rhyme or reason, simply because the OP has gotten tired of one and wants a new one. If you're running separate missions or separate IC threads for a different saga, arc, etc., you're most likely going to be fine, just keep things reasonable (there's no reason to make a new thread because Bob went on a date with Sue [a subplot], but a new IC thread to mark the entry of a new major villain into an RP series, sure). Similarly, if you're restarting one of your roleplays, it's completely reasonable to make a new thread for that is so desired.

Perfectly fair. Thanks, Kyru. *leaves cookies*

[Gurori]

So the Eroris lore thread which contains descriptions of religions/a bestiary/provincial descriptions/race descriptions among other things is perfectly acceptable?

It contains already-established lore that will probably get stuff added onto it over time as people make more lore over what I assume will be future RPs.

It's Everhall's stuff, but I guess I can inquire for him since he's not on so much right now, and I've participated before in writing further lore and also by participating in both RPs.

It does not appear to be a duplication of pre-existing information (spam), but a collation of information for an ongoing roleplay or roleplay series (archive). Looking at it, I'd say it's fine.

Well on the subject of roleplay threads then.

The entire archive thread has gotten me thinking, archive threads are only acceptable if a roleplay absolutely needs one. So wouldn't that mean that secondary OOC/IC threads are only needed if absolutely necessary?

I have noticed that the following roleplays of which I have participated in have multiple IC threads, all of which don't even breach 100 pages.

viewtopic.php?f=31&t=362942
viewtopic.php?f=31&t=394873
viewtopic.php?f=31&t=376503

Yes, I am aware of the fact that I am reporting my own roleplay in this. I am not expecting serious action to be taken, but rather for said IC threads to be merged into a single thread. I am also aware that two of the roleplays listed are not even active anymore.

(That and the third of the listed roleplays are already locked)

I also would like to ask if this new ruling applies to RPs that have multiple IC threads. Back when Excalibur Squadron was active, we had different IC threads for each mission, and one for the home base.

I was gonna ask this too.

My RP, Dragonball Universe, runs a new IC for each successive saga or arc, so I guess it's kinda important we find out if this effects us.

The HP RP I'm in does the same thing, each year is a different IC. It would really mess with things if this changed.

Completely reasonable questions with valid concerns. The described situations are more nebulous, however, and - as ever - individual cases are judged individually.

If a roleplay/OP is constantly making threads, regardless of whether they are IC or OOC, they may get merged and/or locked as spam if it becomes burdensome - such as it being done every other day with seemingly no rhyme or reason, simply because the OP has gotten tired of one and wants a new one. If you're running separate missions or separate IC threads for a different saga, arc, etc., you're most likely going to be fine, just keep things reasonable (there's no reason to make a new thread because Bob went on a date with Sue [a subplot], but a new IC thread to mark the entry of a new major villain into an RP series, sure). Similarly, if you're restarting one of your roleplays, it's completely reasonable to make a new thread for that is so desired.

Thanks for the clarification.

[Swith Witherward]

To curb more PMs -

What I suggest, when players ask about archives for their RP, is waiting until you have enough lore amassed to warrant an archival thread. This usually happens where there's too much world data to keep track of in an OOC. You run out of room for links and data.

Using Rhodevus' game as an example, they currently have enough space (character count) in the OOC's second post to list character/org/nation links for quick reference. The OOC roster list should give enough insight for players to work with.

ORGANIZATIONS

• Organization Name: The Initiative of the Free Galaxy
  Type of Organization: Nomadic self-sustaining micro-civilization / mercenary group.
  Organization Leader: Fleet Commander "Arbitrator" - his original name has been lost to time.

NATIONS

• Nation Name: The Collective
  Government Type: Technocracy
  National Leader(s): Prime-Leader Shovan, Commander-Scientist Vaec, Commander-Military Jackson

DRAMATIS PERSONAE

Myra Wail - brief description, player's name

SPECIES

• Etc

Info builds up over time. Track it using links until there's enough to format an archive with. Then, as OP, put some time aside to code an archive thread. Personalize it a bit rather than copy the forms players filled out.

The reason I recommend that OP wait until they have a lot of data... it makes it easier for them to organize their archive thread. They'll know how much space they need. They can transfer things so that the majority of their grouped categories are sequential in that thread. I also recommend that the OP maintains the thread in order to keep things from getting jumbled up too badly with multiple player posts. Code an archive directory so players can browse the topics to find what they need in order to proceed with their post, etc.

I hope this helps explain it a bit better.

[Rhodevus]

To curb more PMs -

What I suggest, when players ask about archives for their RP, is waiting until you have enough lore amassed to warrant an archival thread. This usually happens where there's too much world data to keep track of in an OOC. You run out of room for links and data.

Using Rhodevus' game as an example, they currently have enough space (character count) in the OOC's second post to list character/org/nation links for quick reference. The OOC roster list should give enough insight for players to work with.

ORGANIZATIONS

• Organization Name: The Initiative of the Free Galaxy
  Type of Organization: Nomadic self-sustaining micro-civilization / mercenary group.
  Organization Leader: Fleet Commander "Arbitrator" - his original name has been lost to time.

NATIONS

• Nation Name: The Collective
  Government Type: Technocracy
  National Leader(s): Prime-Leader Shovan, Commander-Scientist Vaec, Commander-Military Jackson

DRAMATIS PERSONAE

Myra Wail - brief description, player's name

SPECIES

• Etc

Info builds up over time. Track it using links until there's enough to format an archive with. Then, as OP, put some time aside to code an archive thread. Personalize it a bit rather than copy the forms players filled out.

The reason I recommend that OP wait until they have a lot of data... it makes it easier for them to organize their archive thread. They'll know how much space they need. They can transfer things so that the majority of their grouped categories are sequential in that thread. I also recommend that the OP maintains the thread in order to keep things from getting jumbled up too badly with multiple player posts. Code an archive directory so players can browse the topics to find what they need in order to proceed with their post, etc.

I hope this helps explain it a bit better.

awesome. Thanks for the info!

[Swith Witherward]

awesome. Thanks for the info!

You're welcome!

[The Armed Republic of Dutch Coolness]

In the light of these changes to the rules, I'll request for this thread to be locked as well. I'll admit, I'm guilty as charged, but this one seems to have slipped underneath the radar

[Kyrusia]

In the light of these changes to the rules, I'll request for this thread to be locked as well. I'll admit, I'm guilty as charged, but this one seems to have slipped underneath the radar

It happens. So locked.

That being said, this isn't a change of the rules. This is simply a (large) clarification in light of a lack of reporting (which has allowed these sort of things to build-up; this also happens from time to time). Regardless... Archive threads are not prohibited, spam is prohibited. Spam has always been prohibited. Threads which simply duplicate pre-existing material... almost by definition constitute spam. Those sort of threads will continue to be locked when discovered.

[Esternial]

I'd just like to chime in here with a general comment on this.

If you're thinking about making an additional OOC thread besides the RP's main OOC thread, try to think about whether it's worth it. Compartmentalization is useful when you're operating in a submersible vehicle or in the vacuum of space, but on a forum it's often fairly pointless to compartmentalize all your info in separate OOC threads. If you can, include as much info in the main OOC, including an easy overview. That way folks don't have to jump through different threads to look up one tiny detail.

Making a separate archive thread is something you do when it's simply no longer an option to put something in your main OOC. It's sort of a last resort to avoid overwhelming people with too much info that they might not all need for the RP itself.

Maybe you want to come across as professional by having separate threads dedicated to separate purposes. Keep everything nice and structured. You can do that in one single thread, using BB codes including spoilers and anchors.

Anybody that would like some help with that, feel free to send me a telegram. I'm currently in a busy period IRL but I can free up some time in the evening when needed.