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Deaths of despair still surging among US White Working Class

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Ostroeuropa
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Deaths of despair still surging among US White Working Class

Postby Ostroeuropa » Sat Mar 25, 2017 12:08 am

Marking almost 30 years of rising drug addiction, alcoholism, and suicide.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... generation

(Study)
https://www.brookings.edu/wp-content/up ... deaton.pdf

Researchers who sounded the alarm on increasing white working-class mortality blamed the trend Thursday on economic upheaval that created a web of social issues so tightly interwoven that even successful policies would take years to unsnarl them.

Mortality and morbidity, which measure chances of death or illness within an age group, began climbing in the late 1990s for less-educated whites between 45 and 54. That came as progress against heart disease and cancer slowed and drug overdoses, suicide and alcoholism -- so-called “deaths of despair” -- became pervasive.

Distress born of globalization and technological change probably drove the deadly outcome, new research by Princeton University’s Anne Case and Nobel Prize winner Angus Deaton shows. Their findings point to a cycle of despair that’s deepening: Middle-aged whites today are more likely to report pain and mental-health problems than their predecessors and are experiencing symptoms of alcoholism at a younger age.

“Policies, even ones that successfully improve earnings and jobs, or redistribute income, will take many years to reverse the mortality and morbidity increase,” Case and Deaton write in their paper. “Those in midlife now are likely to do much worse in old age than those currently older than 65.”

Less-educated whites are unique in their plight. Mortality has continued its long-run decline for whites with bachelor’s degrees, Hispanics and blacks. In 1999, the rate for whites between 50 and 54 with only high-school degrees was 30 percent lower than the mortality rate of blacks that age. By 2015, it was 30 percent higher, a cross-over echoed across age groups.

The problem bucks a global trend: Middle-aged mortality has been falling globally, even in other advanced economies like the U.K. Adult mortality improvements have been most striking in developing countries, according to United Nations data.

While high school-only Americans earn far less than peers with a bachelor’s degree -- about 60 cents on the dollar -- income inequality itself doesn’t seem to be the driver of white woe. Blacks and Hispanic Americans fare even worse economically, yet they’ve made consistent gains in combating mortality and morbidity. And in Europe and the U.K., where income divides have also widened, mortality has been declining across demographics.


Important to note the underlined when discussing why so many WWC are killing themselves.

In the eyes of Case and Deaton, a 2015 economics laureate for his analysis of consumption, poverty and welfare, the decline is a story of cumulative disadvantage. While minorities have a long history of economic struggle, white Americans could once expect a secure job, family life and future with only a high-school degree. But unions, factories and mines began to decline in the 1970s, taking with them high-paying jobs.

In response, college attendance increased. Those who didn’t go found themselves in lower-paying jobs or left the labor market entirely, pushing down participation for those with less than a bachelor’s degree.

As opportunities eroded, so did institutions that composed the backbone of middle-class existence. Traditional churches ceded ground to creeds that emphasize individualism -- as a result, people feel increased responsibility for their own successes or failures. Marriage became less common as men became less likely to work, leaving both genders with less stability.

“The story is rooted in the labor market, but involves many aspects of life, including health in childhood, marriage, child rearing, and religion,” the authors wrote.

Without their traditional moorings, whites increasingly turned to chemical crutches. Alcoholism worsened. Suicide climbed. And when doctors began to hand out opioid prescriptions more freely during the 1990s, addiction took root.


Breaking here to focus on next part.

These days, more Americans die from drug overdoses than car accidents -- the former killed about 47,000 people in 2015, while the latter fewer than 38,000. Opioids specifically killed 33,000 people in 2015, and the vast majority overdosing are white.

“Although we do not see the supply of opioids as a fundamental factor, the prescription of opioids for chronic pain added fuel to the flames,” Deaton and Case wrote. “Controlling opioids is an obvious priority, as is trying to counter the negative effects of a poor labor market on marriage, perhaps through better safety nets for mothers with children.”


Help men by giving women money, obviously. Couldn't possibly indicate we need to get people to value men as partners because people rather than paycheck.

Case and Deaton’s story chimes with America’s recent politics. President Donald Trump did far better than Mitt Romney, the 2012 Republican candidate, in counties with higher drug, alcohol and suicide mortality, according to research by Pennsylvania State University assistant professor Shannon Monnat.


The Despair-Trump map is pretty telling if anyone hasn't seen it.

“Much of the relationship between mortality and Trump’s performance is explained by economic factors; counties with higher economic distress and larger working-class presence also have higher mortality rates and came out strongly for Trump,” Monnat wrote. “In many of the counties where Trump did the best, economic precarity has been building and social and family networks have been breaking down for several decades.”


We're in a bit of a decline, yeh.

Seems obvious to me what should happen in policy terms, but nothing will. In social terms, whites should probably organize clubs and stuff.

Raeganomics: So great, your children will kill themselves.

In policy terms, we need to bring back collective participation in activities and ignore the people who go on about government interference. Church seems to have performed a vital function. Demanding an hour a week from citizens could put a stop to the rise.

Pretty sure progressive politics doesn't help either tbh.
Last edited by Ostroeuropa on Sat Mar 25, 2017 12:14 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Postby Lalaki » Sat Mar 25, 2017 12:34 am

I do believe that progressive politics can work.

A lot of folks dealing with the "cycle of despair" in the white working class ended up blaming their troubles on immigrants, minorities, Muslims, etc. As if to say these groups were "taking over America." Hence the rise of Donald Trump, "Make America Great Again." Their frustrations are genuine and justified -- the way they dealt with it was not.

Perhaps if we expanded access to health care, gave folks (both young and old) better vocational training, increased tax credits, and created jobs in infrastructure -- a lot of the plight that we see in the Rust Belt would be alleviated. The only thing standing in the way of this is people voting against their self-interest based on lack of knowledge. Better organizing on the part of the left could remedy this. That's why it is crucial that Bernie Sanders has been visiting coal miners in West Virginia and factory workers in Pennsylvania.
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Postby Union of Despotistan » Sat Mar 25, 2017 1:00 am

This is a very good proof that mass migration, multiculturalism, LGBT rights, radical feminism and globalisation only leads to loss of tradition, cultures and destruction of western values. All this enable the feel of uselessness to the white man who cannot anymore be what he was for centuries and millennia.
Job security was destroy by mass migration.
Traditions and culture are destroyed by multiculturalism.
Traditional family values are destroy by radical feminism + LGBT propaganda.
Middle class jobs are destroyed by globalism.

The people who came up with all theses ideas knew very well it would lead to this, and they were more than happy to push forward with it.
Last edited by Union of Despotistan on Sat Mar 25, 2017 1:01 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby USS Monitor » Sat Mar 25, 2017 1:48 am

Ostroeuropa wrote:In policy terms, we need to bring back collective participation in activities and ignore the people who go on about government interference. Church seems to have performed a vital function. Demanding an hour a week from citizens could put a stop to the rise.


DEMANDING an hour? Like forcing people to go? Fuck that noise.

If churches want to do some outreach and encourage people to come, offer counseling, charity, etc. -- Cool. Forcing people to go? Fuck no. There's no particular reason to think it would help, or that church would be more effective than some secular activity. Back before this problem started, people were going to church voluntarily.

It's not my responsibility to waste an hour of my time going somewhere I'm not interested in going and doing stuff I'm not interested in doing just because some asshats can't put down the pills, get a fucking life, and grow the fuck up. If they need church to help them get their shit together, they should get off their ass and go on their own. It's not my job to keep people company just because they're too nasty to enjoy their own company -- and that's basically what this is: nasty people that are miserable because their own unpleasant company is making them miserable.

These people are not all that poor by global standards. They're just unhappy with what they have because they think they're entitled to more. Well, what exactly makes them so entitled? Nothing as far as I can see. People need to grow the fuck up and a get a clue that being born white and American doesn't magically make them more deserving than someone else. If you have food and shelter and so forth, you shouldn't be whining because it's a mobile home instead of your dream house or because you had to buy something that's not your favorite brand or because you didn't have money left over to go out and party. I am so sick and tired of Americans that would rather bury themselves in debt and then cry their fucking eyes out about how hard their life is than just live the type of less extravagant lifestyle that millions of people are living happily in Old World countries and Latin America. And I am not even talking about 3rd world countries here... Even Europeans make do with smaller living spaces and using substantially less energy than we do in the US. It's hard to sympathize with people that are, at least to some extent, being killed off by their own nasty attitude.

Pardon the shitflipping Masshole Mode rantpost, but I am really sick of all the whining and moping and people acting like it's the end of the fucking world because they, personally, aren't living the American Dream. I'm sure there's a button around here somewhere that will switch me back to Mod Mode... I just haven't fucking found it yet. They hid it! I wonder if it's under this stack of buttons for clearing bad custom fields...

*digs*

Nope.

I can't find it... :unsure:

Pretty sure progressive politics doesn't help either tbh.


If progressive politics was causing the problem, it would be worst in places that have progressive politics.
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Postby Vassenor » Sat Mar 25, 2017 2:08 am

Union of Despotistan wrote:This is a very good proof that mass migration, multiculturalism, LGBT rights, radical feminism and globalisation only leads to loss of tradition, cultures and destruction of western values. All this enable the feel of uselessness to the white man who cannot anymore be what he was for centuries and millennia.
Job security was destroy by mass migration.
Traditions and culture are destroyed by multiculturalism.
Traditional family values are destroy by radical feminism + LGBT propaganda.
Middle class jobs are destroyed by globalism.

The people who came up with all theses ideas knew very well it would lead to this, and they were more than happy to push forward with it.


You know, after all that rhetoric about safe spaces and snowflakes you'd think the people doing it could come up with better arguments than "it hurts my feelings".

Also did appeal to tradition stop being fallacious while I was asleep?
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Postby USS Monitor » Sat Mar 25, 2017 2:10 am

Lalaki wrote:I do believe that progressive politics can work.

A lot of folks dealing with the "cycle of despair" in the white working class ended up blaming their troubles on immigrants, minorities, Muslims, etc. As if to say these groups were "taking over America." Hence the rise of Donald Trump, "Make America Great Again." Their frustrations are genuine and justified -- the way they dealt with it was not.

Perhaps if we expanded access to health care, gave folks (both young and old) better vocational training, increased tax credits, and created jobs in infrastructure -- a lot of the plight that we see in the Rust Belt would be alleviated. The only thing standing in the way of this is people voting against their self-interest based on lack of knowledge. Better organizing on the part of the left could remedy this. That's why it is crucial that Bernie Sanders has been visiting coal miners in West Virginia and factory workers in Pennsylvania.


Agreed that fixing up our infrastructure and giving people more reliable access to healthcare would be a good thing.

Last spring, I visited China for the first time in about a decade, and it was just amazing the amount of new infrastructure that had been built up since I was there before. As well as creating jobs, it seems like it's good for people's morale to see their cities being improved from year to year. Admittedly, a lot places in China were starting from dirt sidewalks, dumpy concrete boxes for buildings, mule carts in place of modern construction equipment, and traffic so bad that buses were driving on the sidewalk to get past the traffic jams -- so there was a lot of room for improvement -- but still... New infrastructure is nice.

And there's really no reason why the US can't fix up our infrastructure. We have enough people and resources to do it. They're just not getting mobilized.
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Cedoria
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Postby Cedoria » Sat Mar 25, 2017 2:14 am

Well, who really believed that pursuing fucked up social policies and downright robbery advocated by the trickle-down clowns would ever lead to negative social consequences among those shafted?

Nobody has any right to be surprised by this, and it's not just a 'white' issue or 'male' one either, working-class Americans in general are at higher risk of suicide. I remember people reading stuff about this from the 90's. Again, nobody has any right to be shocked, they've been warned many times.
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Cedoria
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Postby Cedoria » Sat Mar 25, 2017 2:15 am

USS Monitor wrote:
Lalaki wrote:I do believe that progressive politics can work.

A lot of folks dealing with the "cycle of despair" in the white working class ended up blaming their troubles on immigrants, minorities, Muslims, etc. As if to say these groups were "taking over America." Hence the rise of Donald Trump, "Make America Great Again." Their frustrations are genuine and justified -- the way they dealt with it was not.

Perhaps if we expanded access to health care, gave folks (both young and old) better vocational training, increased tax credits, and created jobs in infrastructure -- a lot of the plight that we see in the Rust Belt would be alleviated. The only thing standing in the way of this is people voting against their self-interest based on lack of knowledge. Better organizing on the part of the left could remedy this. That's why it is crucial that Bernie Sanders has been visiting coal miners in West Virginia and factory workers in Pennsylvania.


Agreed that fixing up our infrastructure and giving people more reliable access to healthcare would be a good thing.

Last spring, I visited China for the first time in about a decade, and it was just amazing the amount of new infrastructure that had been built up since I was there before. As well as creating jobs, it seems like it's good for people's morale to see their cities being improved from year to year. Admittedly, a lot places in China were starting from dirt sidewalks, dumpy concrete boxes for buildings, mule carts in place of modern construction equipment, and traffic so bad that buses were driving on the sidewalk to get past the traffic jams -- so there was a lot of room for improvement -- but still... New infrastructure is nice.

And there's really no reason why the US can't fix up our infrastructure. We have enough people and resources to do it. They're just not getting mobilized.


Again, neoliberalism poisons everything. Robber baron Capitalism eats everything eventually, including itself...
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Postby Cedoria » Sat Mar 25, 2017 2:18 am

Union of Despotistan wrote:This is a very good proof that mass migration, multiculturalism, LGBT rights, radical feminism and globalisation only leads to loss of tradition, cultures and destruction of western values. All this enable the feel of uselessness to the white man who cannot anymore be what he was for centuries and millennia.
Job security was destroy by mass migration.
Traditions and culture are destroyed by multiculturalism.
Traditional family values are destroy by radical feminism + LGBT propaganda.
Middle class jobs are destroyed by globalism.

The people who came up with all theses ideas knew very well it would lead to this, and they were more than happy to push forward with it.

Job security was destroyed by crackpot voodo Reaganite economic fundamentalism. Not much to do with migration.

You want to know why immigrants have taken low-paid jobs? Ask the companies that hire them. Penalise them for relying on low-paid foreign labor, and you'll see it improve quick-smart.

But blaming the actual immigrants lets those who caused the problem pretend they care about fixing it. Give people someone to look down upon, and it usually doesn't matter how badly you screw them.
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Saiwania
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Postby Saiwania » Sat Mar 25, 2017 5:05 am

USS Monitor wrote:These people are not all that poor by global standards. They're just unhappy with what they have because they think they're entitled to more. Well, what exactly makes them so entitled? Nothing as far as I can see.


They're entitled because they're tangibly worse off now than they were in previous decades. That much should be obvious. They don't want more so much as to regain what they "lost." They're at an age where they're past their prime and can't adequately adapt to a changing world and economy that has turned against them. They want the good wage the coal mining job from decades ago provided in their youth, which is of course- never happening now for obvious reasons. They're at an age where they're a washed up "has been" and don't have the brains nor the money for college (which isn't a safe bet for increasing your economic value anyways).

USS Monitor wrote:Even Europeans make do with smaller living spaces and using substantially less energy than we do in the US. It's hard to sympathize with people that are, at least to some extent, being killed off by their own nasty attitude.


I imagine that it would be hard for Europeans to live by American standards when Europe is much more densely populated than the US is, thus land is far more expensive in Europe and distances are short enough for mass transit and bicycles to be utilized in major cities. Europe also has higher wages on average, more economic mobility, and a much more generous social safety net where people don't need to work nearly as hard to simply survive if they're poor.

The US in contrast, is simply not Europe and never will be in some respects. The US has much longer distances and is overwhelmingly car centric, so this of course, means more energy needs to be used and housing is larger by default simply because land in the US, isn't at such a premium because the population density isn't as high. Wages are lower in the US except for the wealthy and has far more regressive economic policies with a weak social safety net. Far more people die of prolonged homelessness in the US, than in Europe.

I do however, sincerely believe that the American dream is only that- a dream that is an unhealthy one to aspire to. Nothing more materialistic than wanting to earn as much money as you can to live as lavishly as you can, even if you have to double cross one or more people in order to get there. It truly is a farce if there ever was one, that disgusts me. You could be the person with the next "hot idea" on Shark Tank but how likely is it that it can even be executed to business success? Ideas are just a dime a dozen.

No, the true path as I see it; is for people to earn as much money as they can (but not let the pursuit of money rule their life) and spend as little as they can, and only live off of their money once they've calculated that they can retire. Either if they're too old, or they have enough assets or money to live however they want until they die.
Last edited by Saiwania on Sat Mar 25, 2017 5:14 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Ostroeuropa
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Postby Ostroeuropa » Sat Mar 25, 2017 5:22 am

USS Monitor wrote:
DEMANDING an hour? Like forcing people to go? Fuck that noise.

If churches want to do some outreach and encourage people to come, offer counseling, charity, etc. -- Cool. Forcing people to go? Fuck no. There's no particular reason to think it would help, or that church would be more effective than some secular activity. Back before this problem started, people were going to church voluntarily.



Secular alternative is fine with me. Yes, i'd make it mandatory if It were up to me.
"Voluntarily" means jack shit these days unless you also acknowledge the social pressures and such, see: the wage gap, STEM, etc.
Why make a big broo-ha-ha over it being voluntary back then?
The pressure to go was stronger, and society seemed healthier in some regards we can replicate.
Suppose 40% of people kill themselves if we don't, would you on board then?

The biggest killer of this demographic in the US. The top cause of death. I think it's sufficient reason.

It's not my responsibility to waste an hour of my time going somewhere I'm not interested in going and doing stuff I'm not interested in doing just because some asshats can't put down the pills, get a fucking life, and grow the fuck up.


The leading cause of death, and been rising for 30 years. So it's multi-generational. "Some asshats."
Not a societal epidemic, ofcourse. It's just that white working class people need to grow the fuck up, that's the problem, childishness is killing them faster than anything else can. /s
Sorry, what is it you do again?

If they need church to help them get their shit together, they should get off their ass and go on their own. It's not my job to keep people company just because they're too nasty to enjoy their own company -- and that's basically what this is: nasty people that are miserable because their own unpleasant company is making them miserable.


Well gosh. I guess the white working class have the biggest concentration of scum in america, right?

These people are not all that poor by global standards.


Utterly inconsequential and in fact wrong-headed to bring up. Suicide rates in third world countries are usually very low precisely because people are indispensable to their community and family.

Ostroeuropa wrote:One of the things that will tend to prevent suicidal ideation is a sense that the person is needed by those around them. In a poor country the notion of "I'm just a burden to those around me" is probably a lot harder to rationalize when they literally rely on you to have a roof over their head and food on their plate.

In contrast, in the western world it's a lot easier to conclude that if you kill yourself, your friends and family will be fine and not starve to death or whatever. Rationalizing that everyone will be better off without you is a huge component in deciding to commit suicide.

I would wager that suicide rates for the disabled are much higher in the third world, and not necessarily because of a lack of services.

This is also an issue of community V individual systems. In the third world, members of a community have a specific roles and a specific place in their community. "I could kill myself, but, then, who would fetch the water?" or whatever. Conversely, in western society everyone is replacable by design. In order to facilitate greater freedom and allow you to switch roles to do what you feel like doing.

This has the consequence of not actually making you necessary for your community to function. This also makes rationalizing suicide easier.

TL;DR
Suicide in the west might be higher because westerners are replaceable to their communities, and not necessary for their friends and family to survive.


Back to it, then.

They're just unhappy with what they have because they think they're entitled to more. Well, what exactly makes them so entitled? Nothing as far as I can see.


Are they. You asked, did you? Because it seems to me the studies were pretty clear it's not merely entitlement, but social isolation.

People need to grow the fuck up and a get a clue that being born white and American doesn't magically make them more deserving than someone else. If you have food and shelter and so forth, you shouldn't be whining because it's a mobile home instead of your dream house or because you had to buy something that's not your favorite brand or because you didn't have money left over to go out and party.


...
What is it you do, again?
Can you ever afford to miss a day of work?
is it manual labour?
You DO understand that living paycheck to paycheck and working 8+ hours a day manually is going to wreck someone, right? (chronic pain, often worsened by stress of knowing they're living hand-to-mouth.) Yes, they should be complaining.
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/who-lives-p ... surprised/




I am so sick and tired of Americans that would rather bury themselves in debt and then cry their fucking eyes out about how hard their life is than just live the type of less extravagant lifestyle that millions of people are living happily in Old World countries and Latin America. And I am not even talking about 3rd world countries here... Even Europeans make do with smaller living spaces and using substantially less energy than we do in the US. It's hard to sympathize with people that are, at least to some extent, being killed off by their own nasty attitude.


I'm sure it's very convenient to feel that way rather than acknowledge they'd rather be dead than put up with living in the country any longer.
The article does point out, by the way, high levels of chronic pain. It's one of the reasons for the heroin outbreak, doctors started prescribing opiates as pain relief and, well.
I'm sure the pain was just their own evil making their skin itch though.

But you're right ofcourse. Finally americans can gather round the table and declare they don't sympathize with working class blacks because of the gang crime, AND don't sympathize with working class whites because they're just nasty people and that's why they're killing themselves.
Both communities killed off by their own nasty attitude, so who cares.

Pardon the shitflipping Masshole Mode rantpost, but I am really sick of all the whining and moping and people acting like it's the end of the fucking world because they, personally, aren't living the American Dream. I'm sure there's a button around here somewhere that will switch me back to Mod Mode... I just haven't fucking found it yet. They hid it! I wonder if it's under this stack of buttons for clearing bad custom fields...

*digs*

Nope.

I can't find it... :unsure:


It would seem the mention of White working class problems worsening really hit a nerve with you.

viewtopic.php?f=20&t=400203&p=30857184&hilit=cripples+support+tax#p30857184

If progressive politics was causing the problem, it would be worst in places that have progressive politics.


Identity politics? The US does have that.

Whenever I think of how society got so fucked i'm going to remember this post of yours tbh. It's not just the rich who need an attitude adjustment, the middle class is rife with classism, i've seen plenty of left leaning posters here with it. Is it any wonder these people have no hope when people like you are always on TV saying this shit or as good as?

Take a step back, read your post again, but imagine yourself on stage ranting next to a racist (also ranting) the whole way through. The specifics may differ, but try and compare your general contempt and vitriol, dismissal of problems, etc. But this attitude of yours is basically what the Democrats are these days. Most anyway.
Last edited by Ostroeuropa on Sat Mar 25, 2017 5:41 am, edited 7 times in total.
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Postby Hakons » Sat Mar 25, 2017 6:15 am

I'd certainly like it if people attended Churches more. It would definitely provide a social safety net to those in need, not to mention religious support and doctrine that discourages suicide . However, I wouldn't force people to go to Church. We want people at Church because they want to be there, not because they have to.
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Minoa » Sat Mar 25, 2017 9:29 am

It seems we are going off-topic. In my opinion, the US has to improve the health system further than Obamacare.

That doesn't mean telling those who cannot afford health insurance that they're on their own.

That doesn't mean giving insurers the excuse to exclude coverage to people with mental health issues either.

The UK is currently whining a lot about the future of the NHS, and I completely understand due to the impact of the cuts, but it reflects that any healthcare reform must also deliver unquestionable quality to all patients regardless of background.
Last edited by Minoa on Sat Mar 25, 2017 9:30 am, edited 2 times in total.
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The New Sea Territory
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Postby The New Sea Territory » Sat Mar 25, 2017 9:35 am

This is yet another reason why the working class should sieze the means of production.

The natural product of an exploitative and rigged economic system is social alienation. Working class individuals feel cut off trom society, from other workers, from their work, and eventually from themselves.
Last edited by The New Sea Territory on Sat Mar 25, 2017 9:36 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Jello Biafra » Sat Mar 25, 2017 9:43 am

We need greater mental health services that are also cost-effective. Progressive economic policies will help in the medium to long-term, but in the short term increased mental health is necessary.

Ostroeuropa wrote:Help men by giving women money, obviously. Couldn't possibly indicate we need to get people to value men as partners because people rather than paycheck.

The phenomenon here doesn't seem to be limited to men, at least according to the Bloomberg article.

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Postby Oneracon » Sat Mar 25, 2017 9:57 am

Trickle-down economics and excessive focus on individualism failed. Up next, sky is still blue and pope is still Catholic. Video at 11.

Universal access to health care will address quite a few of the causes of mortality (ounce of prevention vs pound of cure) as well as additional government investments as Lalaki said.

The key here is to recognize the value of collectivism... which involves going against decades of American identity. Churches are a form of collectivism that was traditionally more tolerated, but forcing people to go will not work. This will take a fundamental realignment of people's perception of their place in the community, especially a recognition that helping others has value and sometimes you need to put self-interest aside.
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Postby New Werpland » Sat Mar 25, 2017 9:57 am

Image

Only just half of White children live in traditional families today. Be aware that family life both affects, and is affected by, economic inequality and social isolation.

Anti-White social stigma really doesn't exist though.

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Postby Ostroeuropa » Sat Mar 25, 2017 10:01 am

The New Sea Territory wrote:This is yet another reason why the working class should sieze the means of production.

The natural product of an exploitative and rigged economic system is social alienation. Working class individuals feel cut off trom society, from other workers, from their work, and eventually from themselves.


I'm on board, fuck it.
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Postby Shofercia » Sat Mar 25, 2017 10:50 am

Ostroeuropa wrote:Marking almost 30 years of rising drug addiction, alcoholism, and suicide.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... generation

(Study)
https://www.brookings.edu/wp-content/up ... deaton.pdf

Researchers who sounded the alarm on increasing white working-class mortality blamed the trend Thursday on economic upheaval that created a web of social issues so tightly interwoven that even successful policies would take years to unsnarl them.

Mortality and morbidity, which measure chances of death or illness within an age group, began climbing in the late 1990s for less-educated whites between 45 and 54. That came as progress against heart disease and cancer slowed and drug overdoses, suicide and alcoholism -- so-called “deaths of despair” -- became pervasive.

Distress born of globalization and technological change probably drove the deadly outcome, new research by Princeton University’s Anne Case and Nobel Prize winner Angus Deaton shows. Their findings point to a cycle of despair that’s deepening: Middle-aged whites today are more likely to report pain and mental-health problems than their predecessors and are experiencing symptoms of alcoholism at a younger age.

“Policies, even ones that successfully improve earnings and jobs, or redistribute income, will take many years to reverse the mortality and morbidity increase,” Case and Deaton write in their paper. “Those in midlife now are likely to do much worse in old age than those currently older than 65.”

Less-educated whites are unique in their plight. Mortality has continued its long-run decline for whites with bachelor’s degrees, Hispanics and blacks. In 1999, the rate for whites between 50 and 54 with only high-school degrees was 30 percent lower than the mortality rate of blacks that age. By 2015, it was 30 percent higher, a cross-over echoed across age groups.

The problem bucks a global trend: Middle-aged mortality has been falling globally, even in other advanced economies like the U.K. Adult mortality improvements have been most striking in developing countries, according to United Nations data.

While high school-only Americans earn far less than peers with a bachelor’s degree -- about 60 cents on the dollar -- income inequality itself doesn’t seem to be the driver of white woe. Blacks and Hispanic Americans fare even worse economically, yet they’ve made consistent gains in combating mortality and morbidity. And in Europe and the U.K., where income divides have also widened, mortality has been declining across demographics.


Important to note the underlined when discussing why so many WWC are killing themselves.

In the eyes of Case and Deaton, a 2015 economics laureate for his analysis of consumption, poverty and welfare, the decline is a story of cumulative disadvantage. While minorities have a long history of economic struggle, white Americans could once expect a secure job, family life and future with only a high-school degree. But unions, factories and mines began to decline in the 1970s, taking with them high-paying jobs.

In response, college attendance increased. Those who didn’t go found themselves in lower-paying jobs or left the labor market entirely, pushing down participation for those with less than a bachelor’s degree.

As opportunities eroded, so did institutions that composed the backbone of middle-class existence. Traditional churches ceded ground to creeds that emphasize individualism -- as a result, people feel increased responsibility for their own successes or failures. Marriage became less common as men became less likely to work, leaving both genders with less stability.

“The story is rooted in the labor market, but involves many aspects of life, including health in childhood, marriage, child rearing, and religion,” the authors wrote.

Without their traditional moorings, whites increasingly turned to chemical crutches. Alcoholism worsened. Suicide climbed. And when doctors began to hand out opioid prescriptions more freely during the 1990s, addiction took root.


Breaking here to focus on next part.

These days, more Americans die from drug overdoses than car accidents -- the former killed about 47,000 people in 2015, while the latter fewer than 38,000. Opioids specifically killed 33,000 people in 2015, and the vast majority overdosing are white.

“Although we do not see the supply of opioids as a fundamental factor, the prescription of opioids for chronic pain added fuel to the flames,” Deaton and Case wrote. “Controlling opioids is an obvious priority, as is trying to counter the negative effects of a poor labor market on marriage, perhaps through better safety nets for mothers with children.”


Help men by giving women money, obviously. Couldn't possibly indicate we need to get people to value men as partners because people rather than paycheck.

Case and Deaton’s story chimes with America’s recent politics. President Donald Trump did far better than Mitt Romney, the 2012 Republican candidate, in counties with higher drug, alcohol and suicide mortality, according to research by Pennsylvania State University assistant professor Shannon Monnat.


The Despair-Trump map is pretty telling if anyone hasn't seen it.

“Much of the relationship between mortality and Trump’s performance is explained by economic factors; counties with higher economic distress and larger working-class presence also have higher mortality rates and came out strongly for Trump,” Monnat wrote. “In many of the counties where Trump did the best, economic precarity has been building and social and family networks have been breaking down for several decades.”


We're in a bit of a decline, yeh.

Seems obvious to me what should happen in policy terms, but nothing will. In social terms, whites should probably organize clubs and stuff.

Raeganomics: So great, your children will kill themselves.

In policy terms, we need to bring back collective participation in activities and ignore the people who go on about government interference. Church seems to have performed a vital function. Demanding an hour a week from citizens could put a stop to the rise.

Pretty sure progressive politics doesn't help either tbh.


Putin rigged elections... abolish white privilege!!!!

Sarcasm aside, there is a fundamental problem with how our society treats the white people in the bottom half of the economic spectrum; of course it's not just white people. Poor black people go to jail for an ounce of marijuana; wealthy black people? See OJ.

However, the problem is felt more acutely in white society, because of the difference in quality of life. For the minority immigrants, even though their quality of life sucks in the US, it's an improvement from where they came. On the other hand, for poor whites, the quality of life is deteriorating, and there's little to no improvement seen. Hence the rise of Trump style candidates and suicide. The establishment can deride, mock, make angry tweets about populists all they want, but candidates like Trump are going to rise as long as these conditions continue to prevail.

On a final note, white privilege should be applied to everyone, not just white people, because it's not a privilege, it's a right. Take those rights away, and wealthy white people, like yours truly, can easily emigrate. Poor whites? They'll be even more fucked.
Last edited by Shofercia on Sat Mar 25, 2017 10:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Shofercia » Sat Mar 25, 2017 10:57 am

Lalaki wrote:I do believe that progressive politics can work.

A lot of folks dealing with the "cycle of despair" in the white working class ended up blaming their troubles on immigrants, minorities, Muslims, etc. As if to say these groups were "taking over America." Hence the rise of Donald Trump, "Make America Great Again." Their frustrations are genuine and justified -- the way they dealt with it was not.

Perhaps if we expanded access to health care, gave folks (both young and old) better vocational training, increased tax credits, and created jobs in infrastructure -- a lot of the plight that we see in the Rust Belt would be alleviated. The only thing standing in the way of this is people voting against their self-interest based on lack of knowledge. Better organizing on the part of the left could remedy this. That's why it is crucial that Bernie Sanders has been visiting coal miners in West Virginia and factory workers in Pennsylvania.


The establishment gave them only one way. Therein lies the problem. And you're right, they do vote against their interests because of a lack of education. But when you have Betsy DeVos on one side, and mandatory anti-masculinity education on the other, that doesn't really help anyone.


Dolonitia wrote:White males are the dominant group in the society. A case of one of them being in bad condition does not mean all white males are desparate.


The title of the thread: Deaths of despair still surging among US White Working Class

He's talking about blue collar white workers.
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Postby Wallenburg » Sat Mar 25, 2017 11:01 am

Look buddy, if you want to turn your country into a backward theocratic undemocratic regime, that's fine by me. Just don't bring any of that shit over to my country.
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Postby Neo Balka » Sat Mar 25, 2017 12:50 pm

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Postby Genivaria » Sat Mar 25, 2017 2:08 pm

The New Sea Territory wrote:This is yet another reason why the working class should sieze the means of production.

The natural product of an exploitative and rigged economic system is social alienation. Working class individuals feel cut off trom society, from other workers, from their work, and eventually from themselves.

Roosevelt understood the connection between economic despair and extremism.
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Empire of Cats
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Postby Empire of Cats » Sat Mar 25, 2017 2:10 pm

Union of Despotistan wrote:This is a very good proof that mass migration, multiculturalism, LGBT rights, radical feminism and globalisation only leads to loss of tradition, cultures and destruction of western values. All this enable the feel of uselessness to the white man who cannot anymore be what he was for centuries and millennia.
Job security was destroy by mass migration.
Traditions and culture are destroyed by multiculturalism.
Traditional family values are destroy by radical feminism + LGBT propaganda.
Middle class jobs are destroyed by globalism.

The people who came up with all theses ideas knew very well it would lead to this, and they were more than happy to push forward with it.


I'm pretty sure multiculturalism means the acceptance of other cultures. What traditions has it destroyed?
Last edited by Empire of Cats on Sat Mar 25, 2017 2:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Livian Nations
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Postby Livian Nations » Sat Mar 25, 2017 2:40 pm

Empire of Cats wrote:
Union of Despotistan wrote:This is a very good proof that mass migration, multiculturalism, LGBT rights, radical feminism and globalisation only leads to loss of tradition, cultures and destruction of western values. All this enable the feel of uselessness to the white man who cannot anymore be what he was for centuries and millennia.
Job security was destroy by mass migration.
Traditions and culture are destroyed by multiculturalism.
Traditional family values are destroy by radical feminism + LGBT propaganda.
Middle class jobs are destroyed by globalism.

The people who came up with all theses ideas knew very well it would lead to this, and they were more than happy to push forward with it.


I'm pretty sure multiculturalism means the acceptance of other cultures. What traditions has it destroyed?

It killed the tradition of pogroms.
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