Utah Republican says equal pay for woman is bad

[Petrolheadia]

That's to be expected when you're being bombed to shit by Russia and the Syrian Arab Army, and your only allies are fellow terrorist groups experiencing the same situation and Saudi Arabia.
By your logic, we could blame every country going through a bad time on a single policy that has nothing to do with their problems.

Except it has a great deal to do with their problems.
Saudi Arabia are still debating whether to even let women fucking DRIVE, keeping half of your population uneducated and out of the workforce is tantamount to starving your economy.

Well, not like I side with Bteo... whatever, Kauthar, but this isn't the case.

With how the Saudi economy works, not even all men are employed, so it's not like they are having an employee deficit.

[Luziyca]

Except it has a great deal to do with their problems.
Saudi Arabia are still debating whether to even let women fucking DRIVE, keeping half of your population uneducated and out of the workforce is tantamount to starving your economy.

Well, not like I side with Bteo... whatever, Kauthar, but this isn't the case.

With how the Saudi economy works, not even all men are employed, so it's not like they are having an employee deficit.

I'm pretty sure that the only reason why the Saudi economy is doing well is because of oil and because of foreign workers that they exploit.

But as I said, we're going way off track from the topic, which is equal pay.

[Genivaria]

Except it has a great deal to do with their problems.
Saudi Arabia are still debating whether to even let women fucking DRIVE, keeping half of your population uneducated and out of the workforce is tantamount to starving your economy.

Well, not like I side with Bteo... whatever, Kauthar, but this isn't the case.

With how the Saudi economy works, not even all men are employed, so it's not like they are having an employee deficit.

Yeah that tends to be the result when a countries economy is supported only by oil and prefers foriegn workers to training its own people.
EDIT: Damnit Ninja'd.

[Bheothachadh]

What's necessarily morally and objectively wrong with not letting women drive, get an education or get a job?

That you are restricting people's freedom for no reason and are only making your society poor and miserable as a result?
This is pretty basic stuff.

Who cares about freedom? I'd rather live in an Orwellian state with a high standard of living than a democratic shithole.

[Luziyca]

That you are restricting people's freedom for no reason and are only making your society poor and miserable as a result?
This is pretty basic stuff.

Who cares about freedom? I'd rather live in an Orwellian state with a high standard of living than a democratic shithole.

...it's all fun living in an Orwellian state with a high standard of living until you run afoul of the regime and get locked up for eternity.

[Genivaria]

That you are restricting people's freedom for no reason and are only making your society poor and miserable as a result?
This is pretty basic stuff.

Who cares about freedom? I'd rather live in an Orwellian state with a high standard of living than a democratic shithole.

Good luck with finding that.
That's a common meme in fiction but in reality totalitarian regimes are actually horribly inefficient and expensive to maintain.

[Petrolheadia]

That you are restricting people's freedom for no reason and are only making your society poor and miserable as a result?
This is pretty basic stuff.

Who cares about freedom? I'd rather live in an Orwellian state with a high standard of living than a democratic shithole.

Which does not mean you cannot have a democratic state with a high standard of living.

[Genivaria]

Who cares about freedom? I'd rather live in an Orwellian state with a high standard of living than a democratic shithole.

...it's all fun living in an Orwellian state with a high standard of living until you run afoul of the regime and get locked up for eternity.

That to.

[Saiwania]

...it's all fun living in an Orwellian state with a high standard of living until you run afoul of the regime and get locked up for eternity.

It depends on how well you agree or can cooperate with the regime. Me? I think I'd love to be head of security or interrogations if the perks were good. If I could be like Sai from Naruto Shippuden, that'd almost be like a dream come true. His choice of attire is absolutely dreadful but his personality is a plus. Who wouldn't want to be an elite among elites?

[Central Asian Republics]

I'd rather live in an Orwellian state with a high standard of living than a democratic shithole.

You should become a comedian some day, you have great potential.

[Neutraligon]

What about single women?

Ideally, all women should be married by 21.

I have better things to do then be married at 21, like studying for my engineering degree.
As to the Utah Republican, my mother was the bread winner of the family, and I was lucky enough that my parents where both always there for dinner.

[The Huskar Social Union]

Sad, but not surprised.

Ideally, all women should be married by 21.

I have better things to do then be married at 21, like studying for my engineering degree.

Yeah but thats clearly not important.

[Sancturia]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2017/02/19/utah-republican-argues-against-equal-pay-for-women-its-bad-for-families-and-society/?utm_term=.75a2f55cc632

In a letter criticizing a bill that addresses pay gap in the workforce, a Utah Republican said that men have traditionally earned more than women and, citing “simple economics,” argued that things should stay that way.

James Green’s letter to the editor, published in two local publications earlier this week, immediately prompted such outrage that within two days, Green had written an apology and resigned from his post as vice chair of the Wasatch County Republican Party.

Green said in his letter, published Wednesday by the Park Record and the Wasatch Wave, that men make more than women because they’re “the primary breadwinners” of their families, and paying women equally would somehow ruin the makeup of a traditional family where “the Mother” remains at home raising children.

“If businesses are forced to pay women the same as male earnings, that means they will have to reduce the pay for the men they employ, simple economics,” Green wrote. “If that happens, then men will have an even more difficult time earning enough to support their families, which will mean more Mothers will be forced to leave the home (where they may prefer to be) to join the workforce to make up the difference.”
And having more women in the workforce would create competition for jobs, “even men’s jobs,” Green wrote. That will, in turn, lower the pay for all jobs and force “more and more Mothers” into the workforce, he argued.

That’s “bad for families and thus for all of society,” Green wrote. “It’s a vicious cycle that only gets worse the more equality of pay is forced upon us. It’s a situation of well-meaning intentions, but negative unintended consequences.”

Green’s comments were directed at Senate Bill 210, which would make changes to laws related to employee pay in the state. The bill, authored by state Sen. Jacob Anderegg, a fellow Utah Republican, would commission a study on whether there’s a pay gap between male and female workers in the state. It would require certain employers to adopt a uniform criteria that will be used to determine whether someone should get a raise based on performance, and would create a pay index that states the average pay range for each occupation based on years of experience.

SB 210 was introduced on Monday.

Shortly after its publication, Green’s letter was met with a sharp response.

State Rep. Tim Quinn, a Republican who represents Utah’s 54th district, which includes Wasatch County, denounced the comments and distanced himself from Green. Wasatch County, with a population of a little more than 29,000, is located about 100 miles outside of Salt Lake City.

“I am shocked and appalled to learn how James Green feels about equal pay for women. I don’t know where this belief came from,” Quinn said in a statement, according to Fox affiliate KSTU. “I do not subscribe publicly or privately to the words or the spirit behind these words, thoughts or ideas. Of course, the Wasatch County Republican Party and I are for equal pay and rights for all people.”

The Utah Women’s Coalition, which supports SB 210, took to social media with its criticism of Green’s comments.

“Are we really having this conversation in 2017?” asked a Facebook post sharing a local story about Green.

The coalition’s Stephanie Pitcher told Fox affiliate KSTU that the bluntness of Green’s remarks were “very disappointing” and contradicts the federal Fair Labor Standards Act, as well as anti-discrimination provisions in state law.

“He was very straightforward and blunt about his thoughts on women in the workforce and that was really surprising, but the first thing I noticed was a very open recognition that there is a pay disparity between men and women,” Pitcher told KSTU of Green.

Green did not return a call from The Washington Post on Saturday. But he told KSTU that he has been in “hot water” since his letter was published.

“You wouldn’t believe the hateful, vile comments and messages I’ve received,” Green told KSTU, adding that he decided to resign from his position as vice chair of the Wasatch County GOP because he “didn’t want to hurt the party,” which he said was getting blamed for his comments.


Green then wrote a second letter saying his comments are not representative of the Wasatch County GOP or the Republican Party in general and apologizing to those who have been offended.

“I want to clarify that the main focus of my letter was to express that I don’t feel the government should be dictating to private establishments what they must do in regard to employment, hiring, or wages,” Green wrote, according to KSTU. “There was no offense intended toward Women, whatsoever. And yet some took it that way. To those who were offended, I profusely apologize. I sincerely did not mean to do that.”

He also said he values women’s contributions in the workforce, and that he was only pointing out the “historical reasons for pay disparity.”

“While I worked my fingers to the bone (with numerous extra side jobs) so my Wife could say in the home and raise our two Sons, who are now both Physician/Surgeons (plus one also has a Law Degree), I realize not everyone is so fortunate,” Green wrote.

A spokeswoman for the Utah GOP told the TV station on Friday afternoon that Green had resigned. Efforts to reach the Utah GOP on Saturday were unsuccessful.

My opinion can be summarized as such:

(Image)

But really, this is stupid. Nothing more then an appeal to tradition.

What do you think NSG?

Oh hey Herp! But yeah, a person's tradition shouldn't be a reason for women to earn less.

[Saiwania]

Ideally, all women should be married by 21.

The problem with this is that it can be boiled down to- some women don't want or need a man in their life. If someone hasn't found anyone they can tolerate living with and sharing finances, then there is no point in them getting married because a divorce would only set them back. They lose up to half of their assets. It is taking too big of a risk for too little gain. Rushing into marriage is almost always a mistake.

[Genivaria]

Sad, but not surprised.

I have better things to do then be married at 21, like studying for my engineering degree.

Yeah but thats clearly not important.

Clearly our country doesn't need engineers, that's sorcery it is.

[Bressen]

I still don't understand the hot debate around the topic of the wage gap between men and women. When you control for variables, it narrows down to a number far less than provocative reports would have you believe. The rest is just a grey area, with no particular explanation as to why it occurs. Could be sexism, but it might not be.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

The argument that men's wages will decrease as a result of equal pay for women is... kind of unfounded, actually.

We've never had a perfect parity of income before across a profession or field in all companies in said field to say what will happen.

[Arumbia67]

Oh no somebody irrelevant said something stupid? Quick everyone act like It's a major news story! Anyway here's the facts on the issue. Women who work in the same job, with the same experience, and the same education earn about 5-7% less than a man. Not 23% as most people will claim. Is that difference still a problem? Of course it is. But what It's not, is an excuse to use phony numbers as a scare tactic. So can we knock that off please? Aw who am I kidding? Since when have people let facts get in the way of a good scaremongering? Also let's not forget that many physical labor jobs are high paying, and overwhelmingly male. Power line repairman/ installers can earn 70-90,000 a year for example.

Source if you so desire- http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter ... r-pay-gap/

[Arumbia67]

Ideally, all women should be married by 21.

The problem with this is that it can be boiled down to- some women don't want or need a man in their life. If someone hasn't found anyone they can tolerate living with and sharing finances, then there is no point in them getting married because a divorce would only get them back. They lose up to half of their assets. It is taking too big of a risk for too little gain. Rushing into marriage is almost always a mistake.

It's pretty rare the woman loses half of her assets. Divorce court is rigged extremely heavily in their favor.

[Threlizdun]

That you are restricting people's freedom for no reason and are only making your society poor and miserable as a result?
This is pretty basic stuff.

Who cares about freedom? I'd rather live in an Orwellian state with a high standard of living than a democratic shithole.

The ability of all citizens to participate in civic and economic life is paramount to the construction and maintenence of a community's social, human, and economic capital. A strong, stable, and prosperous society is fully dependant on broad participation in society by its individual members. The exclusion of even minor social classes can have dramatically destabilizing effects, and relegates the capacity to prevent social breakdown by the utilization of violence to suppress efforts by the marginalized to gain power. You aren't simply talking about a small section of society being unable to participate, but literally half of society being incapable of doing so. The inability of half the members of society to participate in any way has disastrous social consequences for all, not just the marginalized. Of course, with the power projections necessary to prevent any sort of social participation by women, institutions would need to be in place to preserve a rather oligarchical if not outright dictatorial administrative model, given the obvious threat of democratic action to maintaining such order. So we aren't simply looking at exclusion of women from social participation, but the exclusion of most people in society. Even if you don't care in the slightest about the wellbeing of women, as you have repeatedly expressed, this isn't sustainsble. You'd suffer too.

[Saiwania]

It's pretty rare the woman loses half of her assets. Divorce court is rigged extremely heavily in their favor.

My points about rushing into marriage still stands. My twin sister for example, paid court costs and time to get everything straightened out. Getting married was a mistake because there was a divorce only a few years later. Which means that the wedding was a complete waste of money.

Needless to say, she won't be getting another lavish event unless she finances it herself. She became a dental hygienist and is well off now, but she would've been so much farther ahead without getting married until she was absolutely sure it'd last. Certainly didn't profit off of it. It is not like she was able to take her ex-husband to the cleaners in a stereotypical fashion and completely drain his bank account, leaving him high and dry. Usually it doesn't happen that way, nor should it.

[Farnhamia]

2. My reaction - :I wish there was a raised eyebrow emoji on the NS forum:

[Chessmistress]

That you are restricting people's freedom for no reason and are only making your society poor and miserable as a result?
This is pretty basic stuff.

Who cares about freedom? I'd rather live in an Orwellian state with a high standard of living than a democratic shithole.

Why the top authorities of such Orwellian state should care about keeping high your standard of living since they would have full power and you would be harmless?

[UKCS]

No I don't think it would.

Dunno: similar policies are being implemented right now by Daesh, and doesn't look like Daesh is exactly flourishing.

God I wish I could like posts on the forum.

[The Serbian Empire]

Ideally, all women should be married by 21.

The problem with this is that it can be boiled down to- some women don't want or need a man in their life. If someone hasn't found anyone they can tolerate living with and sharing finances, then there is no point in them getting married because a divorce would only set them back. They lose up to half of their assets. It is taking too big of a risk for too little gain. Rushing into marriage is almost always a mistake.

And as long as the marriage laws are the way they are, women who are particularly wealthy have a small pool of individuals to date or they risk losing in divorce.