Osiris | Danburg Seized!

[Cormactopia II]

Here's the difference: When the going gets tough, The Black Hawks get going. You refused to get involved in the April conflict, which was fair enough, you were hardly the only ones. But then you also refused to support an emergency Delegate transition when Tim was without internet and I needed to be installed as Delegate, after the conflict had clearly ended. You stayed on the fence because you were worried what Europeia might think.

I'm sure literally the only reason the Hawks would ever possibly decline support to your coup is simply what Europeia would think, and absolutely not anything else involving the circumstances and justifications of your contemptuous betrayal.

If the latter was their reasoning, then that just further proves my point that they're an unreliable ally of Osiris compared to The Invaders. But they've literally never expressed anything like that so I'll just assume you have no idea what you're talking about. Again.

[Ikania]

<3 you too

[Unibot III]

If it's a thank you you want, it's a thank you you'll get. Thank you, Cormac, for placing Osiris on this path, along which you've damaged ties and reputations. I'm sorry that NK wants adjust the trajectory of the region towards a better future.

There is nothing about NK's trajectory that will provide a better future. Osiris has been on this trajectory before. This path leads to chronic inactivity with bursts of toxicity to interrupt it. You can bash me all you want, but the fact remains that under my Delegacy, the community of Osiris was the most active it has ever been for the longest continuous period of time. That's just fact; it's born out by statistics that are easily accessible via the Osiris forum Admin CP, its Discord stats, etc.

I brought domestic stability and activity to Osiris. NK is bringing back-room politicking and restored relations with some of the most toxic regions in NationStates, and he will call that progress in restoring stability to Osiris' foreign affairs, like that matters at all. We'll see which course Osirans prefer in the long run. Not that it will matter. NK doesn't govern according to what anyone else wants, unless the "anyone else" in question are Neenee, Dali, and/or Biyah. Osiris has no idea what's in store for it. I hope Empire will get bored like they did in TEP and give the Delegacy to someone more deserving.

I don't know Osi all that well, but I know the Empire just fine: Osiris would be well advised to listen to Cormac here and take heed. The past week or so of behaviour from the new Pharaoh has been *classic* Empire politics and it'll only get worse.

[Todd McCloud]

I don't know Osi all that well, but I know the Empire just fine: Osiris would be well advised to listen to Cormac here and take heed. The past week or so of behaviour from the new Pharaoh has been *classic* Empire politics and it'll only get worse.

If you read this quote in the voice of Alex Jones, it becomes more palpable.

[Unibot III]

I don't know Osi all that well, but I know the Empire just fine: Osiris would be well advised to listen to Cormac here and take heed. The past week or so of behaviour from the new Pharaoh has been *classic* Empire politics and it'll only get worse.

If you read this quote in the voice of Alex Jones, it becomes more palpable.

You're still their lackey, then? God, that's sad, mate. Find some better friends. Is there nothing completely predictable about an Empire takeover? Including me pointing out the obvious plot and being ridiculed by precisely the same people until, oh yeah, it's transparently validated by their subsequent bullshit.

EDIT: Osi's on it's own from here. I'm retired from being Captain Obvious. It's exhausting to convince others of your lot's rather predictable machinations.

Here's a check list for you, though...

[X] Assume power through questionable means (often quickly regretted by those responsible.)
[X] Rebuild GCR relations to the exclusion of manipulable GCRs' non-GCR allies; using it as a stepping stone to the full diplomatic isolation of certain vulnerable GCRs.
[X] Divide the region's raider or defender allies - manipulating them playfully against one another.
[X] Organize a unification of quasi-authoritarian, neutral GCRs under the pretense of anti-fascist or anti-spam ambitions.
[X] Divide the region's internal politics, positioning themselves as the middle-man.
[X] Further constitutionalize and entrench their hold on the region.
[X] Ridicule opponents.
[_] After about a year, slip into an atrocious state of inactivity and general disregard for the region's interests.

[Todd McCloud]

If you read this quote in the voice of Alex Jones, it becomes more palpable.

You're still their lackey, then? God, that's sad, mate. Find some better friends. Is there nothing completely predictable about an Empire takeover? Including me pointing out the obvious plot and being ridiculed by precisely the same people until, oh yeah, it's transparently validated by their subsequent bullshit.

EDIT: Osi's on it's own from here. I'm retired from being Captain Obvious. It's exhausting to convince others of your lot's rather predictable machinations.

Actually I was hoping to make a late submission for best quote of the year.

[Consular]

It's sad to see Osiris joining the anti-Invaders squad to make nice with regions that hate Osiris and have for some time. An Osiris that panders to defenders in the South Pacific, moderates in Europeia, and whatever The Black Hawks are, at the expense of a raider region that has been consistently friendly to Osiris, is not the Osiris that I spent seven months building. Neo Kervoskia has destroyed that Osiris, raider Osiris, with the stroke of a pen. The petty, back-room duplicity of the Kemetic Republic of Osiris has returned.

I hereby resign citizenship in the Osiris Fraternal Order, because it died the day I abdicated. May the Empire of Osiris meet the same fate most Empire endeavors meet: Failure.

While I don't agree with your assessment entirely, I'm also really not sure what you expected. The OFO was created to get rid of NK and his pals, then you decided to not only let them back in but make him the Pharaoh. What on earth did you think would happen. You casually drove Osiris in a full circle then jumped overboard when you couldn't be bothered anymore.

[Todd McCloud]

All sentiments and bludgeoning aside, I do hope what's best for Osiris, and I do hope that peace can finally come to that region. Almighty knows they deserve it after such a tumultuous ride.

[Ever-Wandering Souls]

All sentiments and bludgeoning aside, I do hope what's best for Osiris, and I do hope that peace can finally come to that region. Almighty knows they deserve it after such a tumultuous ride.

Almighty Jesus whale?

[Todd McCloud]

All sentiments and bludgeoning aside, I do hope what's best for Osiris, and I do hope that peace can finally come to that region. Almighty knows they deserve it after such a tumultuous ride.

Almighty Jesus whale?

I meant to say Lord Almighty, but heck Whale might be a good guy to have help out.

[Cormactopia II]

While I don't agree with your assessment entirely, I'm also really not sure what you expected. The OFO was created to get rid of NK and his pals, then you decided to not only let them back in but make him the Pharaoh. What on earth did you think would happen. You casually drove Osiris in a full circle then jumped overboard when you couldn't be bothered anymore.

On the one hand, it is insisted that I shouldn't have been Pharaoh at all and that my term as Pharaoh was bad for Osiris. On the other, it is insisted that it was reckless and irresponsible for me to step down after seven months -- nearly the equivalent of two Delegate terms in TNP, more than two Pharaoh terms under Osiris' previous system. My detractors simultaneously insist that I was an illegitimate tyrant and that I was not an illegitimate tyrant long enough. On the one hand, it is insisted that NK is taking Osiris on a better trajectory and he is given credit for that. On the other, it is insisted that anything bad NK does or might do is my fault for appointing him because I should have known better. My detractors simultaneously insist that NK is great, but whenever he isn't great, it's entirely my fault. Which is it? You can't have it both ways.

I believed the Empire four when they said they had changed and when they said they no longer held a grudge for the things that happened in 2013. Despite it being the conventional wisdom that I am a horrible, petty tyrant, I wanted to give them a second chance because of the positive things they contributed to Osiris from 2011-13, which stood alongside the negative things they had done and painted a more complex picture than most want to see. I believed it would be unfair to exile them forever. After NK was extremely helpful with setting up the new government in April and May, I believed he had legitimately moved past any past grievances and was the right person for Pharaoh when I eventually stepped down.

All of that was a mistake. I believed they could change and had changed. I bought their excuses for their behavior in 2013. I now see that they are either incapable of change or at least unwilling to change, and that they will always be the way they have always been. I should have listened to the many people who were telling me that all along. I'm not sure what else you want me to say about it. You're acting like I'm not acknowledging that this was a mistake I made and for which I'm primarily responsible, when in fact I've repeatedly acknowledged that every time it's been pointed out.

Continue to irrationally blame me for everything that is or has ever been wrong with Osiris all you want. But every region or individual that is celebrating what they see as my comeuppance should remember exactly what Empire was like before, and why the world was virtually united in supporting Venico, Koth, and I in purging them from Osiris in December 2013. They are still exactly as they always were. What you disliked about them before is exactly what is making a comeback in Osiris right now. When Empire tears Osiris apart again, they will be destroying an entire community comprised of people many of you like, not just destroying me or my legacy in Osiris. So I would just caution TNP, TSP, Lazarus, Europeia, Albion, et al., to consider that before jumping aboard the Empire Express simply because NK is not me. You're right, he isn't me. He's much worse. I know most of you don't believe someone being much worse than me is possible, but that's because most gameplayers have short memories.

I don't know Osi all that well, but I know the Empire just fine: Osiris would be well advised to listen to Cormac here and take heed. The past week or so of behaviour from the new Pharaoh has been *classic* Empire politics and it'll only get worse.

If you read this quote in the voice of Alex Jones, it becomes more palpable.

It isn't just a far-fetched conspiracy theory when it's backed up by years of actual conspiracies undertaken by the exact same people in multiple different regions. But then you practice their style of politics, and have been engaged in your own conspiracies over the years, so I'm not surprised to see you defending them. You'll probably be reinstated as a do-nothing forum admin in Osiris soon, after they find some reason to switch forums and get rid of Koth as root administrator, since offering you an admin position is usually all it takes to gain your support.

[the Imperial Crown]

It's an occupational hazard in any government job that your successor may not follow the same ideals or plans that you had intended. It is a hazard that you should accept and recognise, especially if you can choose your own successor (most are not as fortunate in that regard).

Does that acceptance and recognition make it any easier to deal with? No, not in the slightest. It is part of the cross you bear for having occupied these roles.

[Cormactopia II]

It's an occupational hazard in any government job that your successor may not follow the same ideals or plans that you had intended. It is a hazard that you should accept and recognise, especially if you can choose your own successor (most are not as fortunate in that regard).

Does that acceptance and recognition make it any easier to deal with? No, not in the slightest. It is part of the cross you bear for having occupied these roles.

That's true, but what is happening in Osiris is fundamentally different from the occupational hazard that comes with being a Delegate anywhere. It isn't just the normal transition from one Delegate to another.

What's happening in Osiris is that Neo Kervoskia, for reasons currently unclear, is now upending a foreign policy that was in large part of his own making. He advised me to cancel negotiations with Lazarus to re-establish relations, so I cancelled them; he is now apologizing to Lazarus for past "mistakes" and promising better relations. He advised me to terminate relations with the South Pacific and helped draft the statement that announced their termination; he is now referring to those actions as "the mistakes of our past" and re-establishing relations. He advised picking an alignment and vigorously pursuing that alignment instead of remaining non-aligned, so we chose a raider alignment and vigorously pursued it; he is now alienating raiders who have stood with Osiris since April in favor of non-aligned and independent regions who opposed us. He advised a heavy-handed approach to the Grey Wardens and a state of emergency to remove them from Osiris; if you blink you'll probably miss him overturning their citizenship bans soon as well.

Despite the perception that I am a tyrant, nearly every foreign policy decision that Osiris made during my term was a collaborative decision. I raised nearly every foreign policy issue with the Council of Viziers, listened to their input, and then made a decision, usually the decision that they advised. When the Council of Viziers was split, which wasn't often, I gave heavy weight to the advice of my Heir Apparent, who would be Pharaoh one day. On nearly every issue that came before the Council of Viziers during my term, Neo Kervoskia advised an approach that was the opposite of the approach he is taking now. So this is not a case of Neo Kervoskia not following my plans. This is a case of Neo Kervoskia not following his own plans and depicting them as exclusively mine. I don't know why he is doing that, but it will probably become clear soon enough, and the regions he is approaching should be extremely wary of his overtures. He wants something from them and they won't see the knife coming to thank them for whatever they give him.

[Ikania]

Yes, I'm sure listening to the input of your yes-men makes you such a great communicator.

I don't think there's anyone, not me at least, suggesting you retired too early, or that NK was the wrong pick. He's only the wrong pick for your terrible legacy, personally I rather like what he's done so far, even if he'll certainly stop short of any pipe dreams some of us hold.

And if he ends up restoring the Empire's power, well, fair game, you gave him every mean to do so. Good luck, Kerv.

[Todd McCloud]

If you read this quote in the voice of Alex Jones, it becomes more palpable.

It isn't just a far-fetched conspiracy theory when it's backed up by years of actual conspiracies undertaken by the exact same people in multiple different regions. But then you practice their style of politics, and have been engaged in your own conspiracies over the years, so I'm not surprised to see you defending them. You'll probably be reinstated as a do-nothing forum admin in Osiris soon, after they find some reason to switch forums and get rid of Koth as root administrator, since offering you an admin position is usually all it takes to gain your support.

Mmmn, well, if they'd ever like to use the old forums, they're still operable. But can I say that I'm not interested in a forum adminship or whatever and that I support Osiris and its chance to grow as a free region? I mean, I know this thread started by Osiris has more or less morphed into your most recent tirade, but I think they've got people internally to fill that void should they venture down that road. I don't want to see the Empire reform here, but I am also willing to give NK a chance. People gave me a chance way back when in TEP, and folks can change. I'm giving NK the benefit of the doubt and willing to see what Osiris is going to do next.

At any rate, have you read the last three pages of this thread objectively? Why would anyone think this is akin to 'playing a fun game'? Speaking solely as an individual and not an NS player, but gosh, this is kind of rough.

[Cormactopia II]

Mmmn, well, if they'd ever like to use the old forums, they're still operable. But can I say that I'm not interested in a forum adminship or whatever and that I support Osiris and its chance to grow as a free region?

In what sense is Osiris anymore "a free region" now than it was a month ago when I was still Pharaoh? Nothing, beyond foreign policy, has changed in Osiris except the person who is Pharaoh. The system of government remains the same, the Pharaoh remains enormously powerful (also as NK advised), and the current Pharaoh is in power as a direct result of the April coup in which he enthusiastically participated. NK isn't a remedy for the April coup, he is its continuation and its new personification. He is only better liked because he is now pandering to the right people, the people he repeatedly advised me to alienate.

I mean, I know this thread started by Osiris has more or less morphed into your most recent tirade, but I think they've got people internally to fill that void should they venture down that road. I don't want to see the Empire reform here, but I am also willing to give NK a chance. People gave me a chance way back when in TEP, and folks can change. I'm giving NK the benefit of the doubt and willing to see what Osiris is going to do next.

That's your prerogative. I gave him the benefit of the doubt, and even put aside my doubts against the objections of many, and you can see the result. The knife has been firmly planted in my back. That's what happens when people give Empire the benefit of the doubt.

At any rate, have you read the last three pages of this thread objectively? Why would anyone think this is akin to 'playing a fun game'? Speaking solely as an individual and not an NS player, but gosh, this is kind of rough.

Do you think it's fun for me that after NK asked me to remain in office as Pharaoh for months longer than I wanted to -- actually, he asked me to remain in office for a year, but I finally stepped down earlier than scheduled -- I am now being told, by him, that my term was bad for Osiris, that I was bad for Osiris, and that he must repudiate the policies he advised me to adopt? Do you think it's fun for me to be scapegoated and hated for policies that he and others goaded me into pursuing while he gets credit and praise for reversing them? I'm not going to apologize for refusing to quietly and uncritically let Empire have their fun at my expense and at the expense of the community of Osiris which they are once again treating as their chess board to play their mind games.

[Lord Ravenclaw]

Are you surprised?

[Cormactopia II]

Are you surprised?

I refer you to the many times in this thread I've acknowledged that I made a mistake in trusting them and in not listening to those who warned me not to trust them. Yes, I am surprised. If I had seen this coming obviously I wouldn't have let NK succeed me.

[Unibot III]

It isn't just a far-fetched conspiracy theory when it's backed up by years of actual conspiracies undertaken by the exact same people in multiple different regions. But then you practice their style of politics, and have been engaged in your own conspiracies over the years, so I'm not surprised to see you defending them. You'll probably be reinstated as a do-nothing forum admin in Osiris soon, after they find some reason to switch forums and get rid of Koth as root administrator, since offering you an admin position is usually all it takes to gain your support.

Mmmn, well, if they'd ever like to use the old forums, they're still operable. But can I say that I'm not interested in a forum adminship or whatever and that I support Osiris and its chance to grow as a free region?

So what you're saying is they turned you down on that offer? Perhaps they haven't forgotten you stiffing them with the OFO defection.

I'm a bit surprised to see Lord Ravenclaw so nonchalant about the Empire fairly openly swallowing up Osiris before our eyes and in fact, participating, in the ridiculing of their opponents so characteristic of them. Cormac's clearly made a mistake. He was targeted because they would have thought they could manipulate him. This is no time for defeatism, there's still time to reverse the political course - and if you don't, you know who's next. Well, TSP first. Then, Lazarus probably. But TNP's a solid third, I'd imagine. I'm not suggesting any sort of takeover, but the diaspora, the confluence of power, the electioneering, will all make a reemergence soon enough. TNP's longtime weakness is at the centre of its democratic soul is a patriotism with authoritarian instincts, you might not know that, but they do and they'll exploit it as they always do - and once they push the rock down the hill, it's hard to unpush.

[Lord Ravenclaw]

Are you surprised?

I refer you to the many times in this thread I've acknowledged that I made a mistake in trusting them and in not listening to those who warned me not to trust them. Yes, I am surprised. If I had seen this coming obviously I wouldn't have let NK succeed me.

I am in the process of redrafting this response for the third time... because I can't see how you were surprised. It was the natural thing for him to do and made the most sense to happen once you were politically vulnerable.

It will be a surprise for you. It certainly was for me the first time it happened.

@Unibot: I do always love our chats, but I have long since stopped trying to warn people about anything of importance. I was character assassinated in the Osiran legislature when I opposed allowing Empire to return to Osiris in January, accused of fear-mongering, pushing foreign agendas and seeking to subvert Osiran security and democracy in favour of unnamed players.

I'm nonchalant because I warned people against this and was ignored. Many people warned Osiris against this, and even Koth warned against letting Empire back in because we feared something like this would happen. I am no longer emotionally invested in Osiris, but I do lament that this has happened as it was avoidable.

Alas, people chose to shoot the messenger, and made a game out of doing so.

[Cormactopia II]

Yeah, to be fair, Raven deserves to be nonchalant and take an "I told you so" position, because he did tell us so, repeatedly, and that turned out to be pretty thankless for him.

[Glen-Rhodes]

Do you wish to amount to nothing more than a puppet, strung by the tangled strings of the Invaders? Because if so, Cormac, you're doing a splendid job. Osiris is in the right here, Cormac, despite your desperate attempt to play this off as a defender conspiracy.

This isn't even about The Invaders, at the end of the day, it's about overall direction. An Osiris that is going to return to obsessing over the state of relations with the South Pacific and Europeia and regions like them, and throw regions that are actually friendly toward Osiris under the bus to butter up those regions, is not an Osiris in which I care to participate. There is nothing worthwhile about those regions or any region that prioritizes relations with them.

The defenders in TSP aren't ever going to view an Osiris ran by a crucial Empire agent in a favorable light. So I imagine these overtures are meant to entice moderates like Sam or Imki (should she ever run for MoMA) into supporting diplomatic relations. TSP's defender bloc isn't easily fooled by changes to a region's veneer. Now, maybe if Osiris became a Warden outpost...

[Cormactopia II]

The defenders in TSP aren't ever going to view an Osiris ran by a crucial Empire agent in a favorable light. So I imagine these overtures are meant to entice moderates like Sam or Imki (should she ever run for MoMA) into supporting diplomatic relations. TSP's defender bloc isn't easily fooled by changes to a region's veneer. Now, maybe if Osiris became a Warden outpost...

Wouldn't rule it out. Hard to tell what NK will do if it it will suit whatever Empire's agenda is.

In any event, good luck to Osiris. I hope things turn out better than I expect. If not, please find someone else to clean up the mess next time. Thanks.

[Fedele]

Cormac was a fantastic Pharaoh and I believe Neo Kervoskia is our next fantastic Pharaoh.

On the issue of The Invaders, my council was requested and provided on this matter. The Pharaoh's decision was in agreement with my suggestions. To explain my complete reasoning for recommending the actions taken by the Pharaoh might be seen as disparaging The Invaders, which houses individuals whom I converse with regularly and whose company I enjoy. Disparaging these individuals or their organization is not my intent. It may so happen that we will one day be more fitting partners.

[Myrth]

The tyrant doth protest too much, methinks. The only thing you saved Osiris from is a community without your influence. I'm glad to see the direction in which NK is pulling the region, and I encourage further reform to undo Cormac's harmful legacy. I understand maintaining power for the delegate necessitates the continued existence of a monarchy, but I'm looking forward to what comes next nonetheless.

If you expect any reforms that will make the Delegate less powerful and Osiris more democratic, you don't know NK very well. He started spouting nonsense about Francoism in his inaugural address for a reason.

Now, now. Let's not go criticising the doctrine that's led to the most stable of GCR governments.