Is it cost-effective for a society to pay for transgenders?

[Anadarsia]

Anomalies and exceptions disprove rules, thus it's wrong to say particles have mass, since photons do not as an exception.

Well first I believe photons have relativistic mass. I notice you did not answer my question. Please tell me what makes a woman given that the exceptions are still considered a woman.

The overwhelming majority of women are XX, an anomaly exists in a tiny minority of them, so you're saying that the link of XX = women is wrong.
Anomalies don't disprove rules, a basic tenet of logic.

[Sillexant]

The man yelling at traffic is Napoleon by your logic. I'm afraid you can put makeup on a pig and it wont become a woman. Same applies for a dude.

The reasons for being transgender are completely different to the reasons one might think one is Napoleon. There are hormonal factors, physical factors, recognisable differences in brain activity.

Both based on mental illness. And hey, wake up call buddy, the feelings of a derranged person are not relevant to the decision making of government.
"Oh but I really feel like a girl!"
This is a clear sign that someone is insane. People who are insane should have no place in decision making.
If your type of insanity makes you more likely to commit suicide, that doesn't mean society should play along with your illness and say you're normal and its okay. It's not, and you're sick. This is why trannies kill themselves so much, especially post-op. They become old men, no matter how many hormones they take. At that point they finally get hit by reality.
I blame those who created a bubble around them and told them they weren't sick deviants who need to get their heads sorted, not their bodies.

[Neutraligon]

Individuals make up the collective and for the collective to be helped individual needs need to be addressed. If you think that providing free SRS would be a major tax burden you have clearly not thought about your own OP.

The same money would be better spent making collagen hearts for everyone in 3d printers.
https://engineering.cmu.edu/media/featu ... paper.html

The money spent in the sex change operation for a woman wanting to become a man would allow for 50 hearts to be made, potentially saving 50 lives from life-threatening conditions.
That's just off the top of my head, first thing that popped into mind, there's probably even more efficient uses.

The money we use to save people from cancer can be used to do other things as well, your point?

[Arlenton]

Cancer is something that will kill you. Being tans is not.

Being trans can lead to death the same way having depression can lead to death. The suicide rate among trans individuals is incredibly high.

That is true, but is does not kill you. Society mistreating tans people is what kill them. And many times, trans people can live pretty normal lives.

[The Serbian Empire]

In some countries such as Finland, one can't change gender markers without out it and gender dysphoria is a career if not life threatening issue if left untreated. So yes, one can increase those people's productivity by being able to pay for their HRT and transition.

By that logic people without cancer shouldn't pay taxes for helping cancer treatment and rich people shouldn't give charity to the desperately poor.

Cancer is something that will kill you. Being tans is not.

In the days before transitioning, the fate of trans people unable to transition was often alcoholism or suicide deaths. In other words, if left untreated death is highly likely.

[Anadarsia]

Cancer is something that will kill you. Being tans is not.

Being trans can lead to death the same way having depression can lead to death. The suicide rate among trans individuals is incredibly high.

I still don't see how this is an issue, specially coming from you, an atheist. Life has no ulterior meaning as per atheism.

[Uiiop]

you're saying "Just shut up about me not paying for your new dick/pussy or just kill yourself already"
Which is still kinda screw up to say the least. One of which is because you assume all pre-op are suicidal or just "Faking" it. which i find hard to believe.

Not really, didn't put any thought into it. I just know very well that "do this, or I'll kill myself", should always be required with 'go right ahead'. Blackmailing out of some misplaced sense of moralism doesn't work for the long term, just makes things worse.
I really don't know whether they'll kill themselves or not, but that's their choice and their problem.

You not really getting the "Blackmailing isn't how this works and isn't actually happening" part of my argument do ya?

I mean you provided no proof that this is happening to everyone who wants SRS or at all for that matter.
Also i don't really see how "=Killing themself over this is stupid" means "let it happen if they do it and not help them"

[Neutraligon]

The reasons for being transgender are completely different to the reasons one might think one is Napoleon. There are hormonal factors, physical factors, recognisable differences in brain activity.

Both based on mental illness. And hey, wake up call buddy, the feelings of a derranged person are not relevant to the decision making of government.
"Oh but I really feel like a girl!"[.quote] Well first calling a person deranged when they are not is a rather silly thing to do/

This is a clear sign that someone is insane. People who are insane should have no place in decision making.

You have yet to show they are deranged

If your type of insanity makes you more likely to commit suicide, that doesn't mean society should play along with your illness and say you're normal and its okay.

Funny thing, society doesn't say that rather it says let us do the one thing that has been shown to actually treat it, that would be transition

It's not, and you're sick.

Hence why the treatment is transition.

This is why trannies kill themselves so much, especially post-op.

I am sure you have evidence that more trans individuals kill themselves after surgery then before. Please not comparing them to the rest of society will not show this point.

They become old men, no matter how many hormones they take. At that point they finally get hit by reality.
I blame those who created a bubble around them and told them they weren't sick deviants who need to get their heads sorted, not their bodies.

Source for all of this.

[Yuropah]

Well, I don't think public healthcare should exist at all, so I'm obviously against the public paying for transsexual surgeries.

[Arlenton]

In some countries such as Finland, one can't change gender markers without out it and gender dysphoria is a career if not life threatening issue if left untreated. So yes, one can increase those people's productivity by being able to pay for their HRT and transition.

Cancer is something that will kill you. Being tans is not.

In the days before transitioning, the fate of trans people unable to transition was often alcoholism or suicide deaths. In other words, if left untreated death is highly likely.

That is from alcoholism and suicide. Not from begin tans. It is different than an illness such as cancer. I don't even think I would call being trans an illness at all.

[Philjia]

Being trans can lead to death the same way having depression can lead to death. The suicide rate among trans individuals is incredibly high.

I still don't see how this is an issue, specially coming from you, an atheist. Life has no ulterior meaning as per atheism.

The greatest good for the greatest number is good for society.

[Anadarsia]

The same money would be better spent making collagen hearts for everyone in 3d printers.
https://engineering.cmu.edu/media/featu ... paper.html

The money spent in the sex change operation for a woman wanting to become a man would allow for 50 hearts to be made, potentially saving 50 lives from life-threatening conditions.
That's just off the top of my head, first thing that popped into mind, there's probably even more efficient uses.

The money we use to save people from cancer can be used to do other things as well, your point?

Efficiency like I said for about 10 posts now. Can you read please?
The taks of the public health service, like the task of any public agency is to maximise the efficiency in serving the collective. As far as I know, not a single initiative has been made to ensure easily accessible transplants for people, something that would save lives, at a relatively moderate cost, so why should a far less important problematic like transgender treatments be funded?

[Union of Rossiya]

Not really cost effective. Better off offering some sort of loan (with lower Interest), that of which they could pay off gradually. Yes It's an issue worth noting and deserves its fair share of coverage, but not really a matter of extreme importance in the wider view of things.

[Conserative Morality]

That is from alcoholism and suicide. Not from begin tans. It is different than an illness such as cancer. I don't even think I would call being trans an illness at all.

I should think that something unusual that reasonably requires treatment to manage is an illness or disorder.

[Neutraligon]

Being trans can lead to death the same way having depression can lead to death. The suicide rate among trans individuals is incredibly high.

I still don't see how this is an issue, specially coming from you, an atheist. Life has no ulterior meaning as per atheism.

I like living, this is the only life I have and because it is rare it is precious to me. Thank you for admitting that you do not care about suicide, it goes to show how terrible you opinions really are. I find ti funny that you who supposedly care about life should show how little you actually care for it.

[Anadarsia]

Not really, didn't put any thought into it. I just know very well that "do this, or I'll kill myself", should always be required with 'go right ahead'. Blackmailing out of some misplaced sense of moralism doesn't work for the long term, just makes things worse.
I really don't know whether they'll kill themselves or not, but that's their choice and their problem.

You not really getting the "Blackmailing isn't how this works and isn't actually happening" part of my argument do ya?

I mean you provided no proof that this is happening to everyone who wants SRS or at all for that matter.
Also i don't really see how "=Killing themself over this is stupid" means "let it happen if they do it and not help them"

I feel like you're expecting me to care about people killing themselves. So weird.

[Miravana]

The reasons for being transgender are completely different to the reasons one might think one is Napoleon. There are hormonal factors, physical factors, recognisable differences in brain activity.

Both based on mental illness. And hey, wake up call buddy, the feelings of a derranged person are not relevant to the decision making of government.
"Oh but I really feel like a girl!"
This is a clear sign that someone is insane. People who are insane should have no place in decision making.
If your type of insanity makes you more likely to commit suicide, that doesn't mean society should play along with your illness and say you're normal and its okay. It's not, and you're sick. This is why trannies kill themselves so much, especially post-op. They become old men, no matter how many hormones they take. At that point they finally get hit by reality.
I blame those who created a bubble around them and told them they weren't sick deviants who need to get their heads sorted, not their bodies.

This is a terrible assumption to make.

[Uxupox]

That XX males have the appearance of males but are actually genetically female.

And yet they are still considered men. So once again what makes a person a woman?

Because outwardly they look male and to avoid any possible confusion are henceforth called that.

[Anadarsia]

I still don't see how this is an issue, specially coming from you, an atheist. Life has no ulterior meaning as per atheism.

I like living, this is the only life I have and because it is rare it is precious to me. Thank you for admitting that you do not care about suicide, it goes to show how terrible you opinions really are. I find ti funny that you who supposedly care about life should show how little you actually care for it.

All subjective, none of us have to care about what you like.

[Talo Imperium]

1. Is it really expensive? Espeically with how low the population who needs is.
2. A lot of people who get those thought don't see it that way
3. Sure but to say to mean "Stop forcing us to make things better for you. Deal with it" is a stupid claim

1. If half of trans were to have a publicly funded SRS with the cost of $20k (below average price), then it would cost us $14 Billion dolars
2. It still is, however you see it. It seems crude, but it's true

Still a better investment than the shitty planes DoD keeps putting out

[Neutraligon]

In some countries such as Finland, one can't change gender markers without out it and gender dysphoria is a career if not life threatening issue if left untreated. So yes, one can increase those people's productivity by being able to pay for their HRT and transition.


In the days before transitioning, the fate of trans people unable to transition was often alcoholism or suicide deaths. In other words, if left untreated death is highly likely.

That is from alcoholism and suicide. Not from begin tans. It is different than an illness such as cancer. I don't even think I would call being trans an illness at all.

Being trans is not an illness, gender dysphoria is an illness whose symptoms are very similar to depression. Many trans individuals do not need to go through SRS, rather simply dressing, acting, looking feminine is sufficient.

[Neutraligon]

I like living, this is the only life I have and because it is rare it is precious to me. Thank you for admitting that you do not care about suicide, it goes to show how terrible you opinions really are. I find ti funny that you who supposedly care about life should show how little you actually care for it.

All subjective, none of us have to care about what you like.

That is true for everyone. I do not need to care about what you like either. I fail to see your point.

[Anadarsia]

Not really cost effective. Better off offering some sort of loan (with lower Interest), that of which they could pay off gradually. Yes It's an issue worth noting and deserves its fair share of coverage, but not really a matter of extreme importance in the wider view of things.

Yep, but we're a forum of bored people killing time. I had a couple of hours to spare so came here to talk about something and get entertained. Figured I'd post this.
None of it is of much consequence, correct.

[The Serbian Empire]

The money we use to save people from cancer can be used to do other things as well, your point?

Efficiency like I said for about 10 posts now. Can you read please?
The taks of the public health service, like the task of any public agency is to maximise the efficiency in serving the collective. As far as I know, not a single initiative has been made to ensure easily accessible transplants for people, something that would save lives, at a relatively moderate cost, so why should a far less important problematic like transgender treatments be funded?

The cost of not providing is dead citizens who don't pay taxes because they're dead. The benefit is possibly making a person who wouldn't be very productive far more productive. At las, many transgender individuals travel overseas from countries where the government does pay for such surgeries due to waitlists that are multiple years long. In Canada, the waitlist for SRS is five years long.

[Sillexant]

That is from alcoholism and suicide. Not from begin tans. It is different than an illness such as cancer. I don't even think I would call being trans an illness at all.

Being trans is not an illness, gender dysphoria is an illness whose symptoms are very similar to depression. Many trans individuals do not need to go through SRS, rather simply dressing, acting, looking feminine is sufficient.

Lol look at this freak. You are insane, a derranged individual that has no place in society. Maybe trannies do end up killing themselves once they realise what sort of freaks they really are. Sad!