New Chilokver wrote:so uh
what does this thread cover again
Politics, artillery, and greased up Navy bods.
Maybe tactics and large-unit strategy if you're boring.
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by Imperializt Russia » Fri Aug 05, 2016 2:58 am
New Chilokver wrote:so uh
what does this thread cover again
Also,Lamadia wrote:dangerous socialist attitude
Imperializt Russia wrote:I'm English, you tit.
by The Akasha Colony » Fri Aug 05, 2016 3:52 am
Velkanika wrote:The Internet is extremely resistant to damage by design. The Internet started off as ARPANET, a secure US military data communications network using TCP/IP. As such, the system is designed to dynamically reroute traffic around holes and low bandwidth connections, so all you'd accomplish by cutting submarine cables is to lengthen the connection route between nodes in the countries the cables link. If there is a valid path between two nodes, they can talk. This means that any servers inside a completely isolated country will still be reachable from within it.
I have serious doubts about whether or not even a nuclear war could knock the Internet offline.
by Allanea » Fri Aug 05, 2016 4:18 am
by Minroz » Fri Aug 05, 2016 5:44 am
by Imperializt Russia » Fri Aug 05, 2016 7:05 am
Also,Lamadia wrote:dangerous socialist attitude
Imperializt Russia wrote:I'm English, you tit.
by Gallia- » Fri Aug 05, 2016 7:13 am
MInroz wrote:I'm now imagining EMP being used to knock out Internet Online. Same goes for electronics definitely.
Oh, don't forget hacking. I've heard certain IRL countries have their own Cyber-hacking divisions.
by Allanea » Fri Aug 05, 2016 12:01 pm
MInroz wrote:I'm now imagining EMP being used to knock out Internet Online. Same goes for electronics definitely.
Oh, don't forget hacking. I've heard certain IRL countries have their own Cyber-hacking divisions.
by Imperializt Russia » Fri Aug 05, 2016 12:09 pm
Allanea wrote:MInroz wrote:I'm now imagining EMP being used to knock out Internet Online. Same goes for electronics definitely.
Oh, don't forget hacking. I've heard certain IRL countries have their own Cyber-hacking divisions.
EMP does not work that way. Short of really powerful nuclear weapons, most electronics would at best blink off and on again.
Even nuclear EMP will not take out all electronics.
Also,Lamadia wrote:dangerous socialist attitude
Imperializt Russia wrote:I'm English, you tit.
by Kazarogkai » Fri Aug 05, 2016 12:17 pm
by Taihei Tengoku » Fri Aug 05, 2016 12:30 pm
by Allanea » Fri Aug 05, 2016 12:33 pm
Imperializt Russia wrote:Allanea wrote:
EMP does not work that way. Short of really powerful nuclear weapons, most electronics would at best blink off and on again.
Even nuclear EMP will not take out all electronics.
One of the big threats that seems to be circulated is very large transformers or electrical switch gear.
There are several thousand such devices in the US, and global production is something barely over 100.
Such devices may be crippled for "months" in the event of being subjected to nuclear EMP, some appraisals suggest.
by Purpelia » Fri Aug 05, 2016 12:38 pm
Allanea wrote:Imperializt Russia wrote:One of the big threats that seems to be circulated is very large transformers or electrical switch gear.
There are several thousand such devices in the US, and global production is something barely over 100.
Such devices may be crippled for "months" in the event of being subjected to nuclear EMP, some appraisals suggest.
What do they cost?
by Puzikas » Fri Aug 05, 2016 12:42 pm
Taihei Tengoku wrote:Would it make sense to have a CERT/ELINT/EW unit (of about platoon size) at the battalion level? How much of an enemy network could be penetrated from the physical FLOT?
Allanea wrote:What do they cost?
Sevvania wrote:I don't post much, but I am always here.
Usually waiting for Puz ;-;
by Gallia- » Fri Aug 05, 2016 1:04 pm
Allanea wrote:MInroz wrote:I'm now imagining EMP being used to knock out Internet Online. Same goes for electronics definitely.
Oh, don't forget hacking. I've heard certain IRL countries have their own Cyber-hacking divisions.
EMP does not work that way. Short of really powerful nuclear weapons, most electronics would at best blink off and on again.
Even nuclear EMP will not take out all electronics.
by Imperializt Russia » Fri Aug 05, 2016 1:15 pm
Also,Lamadia wrote:dangerous socialist attitude
Imperializt Russia wrote:I'm English, you tit.
by New Axiom » Fri Aug 05, 2016 1:37 pm
Gallia- wrote:Allanea wrote:
EMP does not work that way. Short of really powerful nuclear weapons, most electronics would at best blink off and on again.
Even nuclear EMP will not take out all electronics.
it will when the emp interacts with the high voltage power cables that criss cross your entire country
but the internet is the least of your worries
the entire system of international banking is immediately destroyed if it happens to be a major power like the USA, or severely disrupted if its even a small country
power plants will catch on fire and literally burn to the ground if unattended
communications will be almost impossible immediately afterwards, and electricity ceases to exist
for all intents and purposes it will destroy all electronics
because the only electronics not affected will be ones that dont matter or ones that are so remote that they might as well not be used
outside of the military, assuming the military is using electronics protected against high altitude EMP as this is questionable in the modern age given the threat of nuclear EMP has diminished in the past 30 years, you will lose all basically all forms of electronic communication for all intents and purposes it is literally the dark ages
tl;dr basically the end of civilization for whoever is unfortunate enough to be caught in such an event
or if the military can still talk to itself, then it's the end of civilization for people who arent the military, and the beginning of probably near permanent martial law, but the difference is slight
it's still the end of civilization if your 401k and stocks just got literally nuked regardless if the physical destruction is minimal, because the only thing that can keep anarchy from reigning is the m16 rifle
warday is quite well done in this regard also it might actually be understating a lot of things
Zakuvia wrote:If you aren't imagining a chain gang of adorable old retirees building a wall with Fixodent and using their Hoverounds as tow trucks then you're not the NS I remember.
by Imperializt Russia » Fri Aug 05, 2016 1:49 pm
New Axiom wrote:Gallia- wrote:
it will when the emp interacts with the high voltage power cables that criss cross your entire country
but the internet is the least of your worries
the entire system of international banking is immediately destroyed if it happens to be a major power like the USA, or severely disrupted if its even a small country
power plants will catch on fire and literally burn to the ground if unattended
communications will be almost impossible immediately afterwards, and electricity ceases to exist
for all intents and purposes it will destroy all electronics
because the only electronics not affected will be ones that dont matter or ones that are so remote that they might as well not be used
outside of the military, assuming the military is using electronics protected against high altitude EMP as this is questionable in the modern age given the threat of nuclear EMP has diminished in the past 30 years, you will lose all basically all forms of electronic communication for all intents and purposes it is literally the dark ages
tl;dr basically the end of civilization for whoever is unfortunate enough to be caught in such an event
or if the military can still talk to itself, then it's the end of civilization for people who arent the military, and the beginning of probably near permanent martial law, but the difference is slight
it's still the end of civilization if your 401k and stocks just got literally nuked regardless if the physical destruction is minimal, because the only thing that can keep anarchy from reigning is the m16 rifle
warday is quite well done in this regard also it might actually be understating a lot of things
Um, no. That's not how an EMP works
An EMP caused by a nuke blast is only a few miles wide and loses energy the farther it is. The higher it is, the less effective it is. Look up operation starfish, I think it was. That did knock out electronics in Hawaii, but since it was practically directly overhead it's impossible to tell really how far the EMP can go, but judging on how they work, not far.
But your iPad would be safe, if it has a steel case. As would your phone. If you have a steel car, your spark plugs would still work. Industrial computers would still work becuase they often have metal casings. Airplanes would still work becuase their all metal, and so would tanks and military bunkers.
All of these examples are examples of faraday cages.
Also,Lamadia wrote:dangerous socialist attitude
Imperializt Russia wrote:I'm English, you tit.
by Gallia- » Fri Aug 05, 2016 1:57 pm
New Axiom wrote:Gallia- wrote:
it will when the emp interacts with the high voltage power cables that criss cross your entire country
but the internet is the least of your worries
the entire system of international banking is immediately destroyed if it happens to be a major power like the USA, or severely disrupted if its even a small country
power plants will catch on fire and literally burn to the ground if unattended
communications will be almost impossible immediately afterwards, and electricity ceases to exist
for all intents and purposes it will destroy all electronics
because the only electronics not affected will be ones that dont matter or ones that are so remote that they might as well not be used
outside of the military, assuming the military is using electronics protected against high altitude EMP as this is questionable in the modern age given the threat of nuclear EMP has diminished in the past 30 years, you will lose all basically all forms of electronic communication for all intents and purposes it is literally the dark ages
tl;dr basically the end of civilization for whoever is unfortunate enough to be caught in such an event
or if the military can still talk to itself, then it's the end of civilization for people who arent the military, and the beginning of probably near permanent martial law, but the difference is slight
it's still the end of civilization if your 401k and stocks just got literally nuked regardless if the physical destruction is minimal, because the only thing that can keep anarchy from reigning is the m16 rifle
warday is quite well done in this regard also it might actually be understating a lot of things
Um, no. That's not how an EMP works
An EMP caused by a nuke blast is only a few miles wide and loses energy the farther it is. The higher it is, the less effective it is. Look up operation starfish, I think it was. That did knock out electronics in Hawaii, but since it was practically directly overhead it's impossible to tell really how far the EMP can go, but judging on how they work, not far.
But your iPad would be safe, if it has a steel case. As would your phone. If you have a steel car, your spark plugs would still work. Industrial computers would still work becuase they often have metal casings. Airplanes would still work becuase their all metal, and so would tanks and military bunkers.
All of these examples are examples of faraday cages.
by Imperializt Russia » Fri Aug 05, 2016 2:06 pm
Also,Lamadia wrote:dangerous socialist attitude
Imperializt Russia wrote:I'm English, you tit.
by Gallia- » Fri Aug 05, 2016 2:08 pm
by Velkanika » Fri Aug 05, 2016 2:12 pm
The Akasha Colony wrote:Velkanika wrote:The Internet is extremely resistant to damage by design. The Internet started off as ARPANET, a secure US military data communications network using TCP/IP. As such, the system is designed to dynamically reroute traffic around holes and low bandwidth connections, so all you'd accomplish by cutting submarine cables is to lengthen the connection route between nodes in the countries the cables link. If there is a valid path between two nodes, they can talk. This means that any servers inside a completely isolated country will still be reachable from within it.
I have serious doubts about whether or not even a nuclear war could knock the Internet offline.
Minor construction accidents and farmers in their fields in rural, undeveloped countries have been able to knock out the internet to much if not most of entire countries with just a simple cable break. Ships dragging anchors plus just general wear and tear and degradation have caused major undersea cable breaks that have caused huge communications problems in rather large swathes of the globe.
It's not common to experience such disruptions in the developed world because there's a lot of network redundancy due to the sheer number of cables and routes, but in a wartime scenario with intentional targeting of communications nodes, there would definitely be huge network disruptions.
Even if some cables escaped being cut, they would be unable to handle the sheer bandwidth required to maintain the current volume of network traffic. Nevermind what may well be increased traffic in the event of a crisis with so many people eagerly searching for any news they can come across.
So no, it's honestly not hard to seriously degrade internet availability to the average consumer.
The necessity of a navy, in the restricted sense of the word, springs, therefore, from the existence of a peaceful shipping, and disappears with it, except in the case of a nation which has aggressive tendencies, and keeps up a navy merely as a branch of the military establishment. 1
by Gallia- » Fri Aug 05, 2016 2:26 pm
by Pharthan » Fri Aug 05, 2016 2:31 pm
Gallia- wrote:
and military electronics today may not be made to be HEMP hardened to begin with (though they were 30 years ago) since the threat of hemp has mostly disappeared after the cold war
HALCYON ARMS STOREFRONT
by Gallia- » Fri Aug 05, 2016 2:39 pm
Pharthan wrote:Gallia- wrote:
and military electronics today may not be made to be HEMP hardened to begin with (though they were 30 years ago) since the threat of hemp has mostly disappeared after the cold war
Ah, good, then most of the US Military is perfectly safe since it still uses largely Cold War tech.
by Imperializt Russia » Fri Aug 05, 2016 2:48 pm
Also,Lamadia wrote:dangerous socialist attitude
Imperializt Russia wrote:I'm English, you tit.
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