Just leave everything to the states. Had totally worked before for the best way to deal with segregation and discrimination. Just look at how well it worked out for racial segregation and homosexual marriages!
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by Noraika » Thu May 19, 2016 8:41 am
LOVEWHOYOUARE~TRANS⚧EQUALITY~~ Economic Left -9.38 | Social Libertarian -2.77 ~
~ 93 Equality - 36 Liberty - 50 Stability ~Democratic Socialism ● Egalitarianism ● Feminism ● LGBT+ rights ● Monarchism ● Social Justice ● Souverainism ● StatismPronouns: She/Her ♀️⛦ Pagan and proud! ⛦⚧Gender and sex aren't the same thing!⚧
by The New Falkland Islands » Thu May 19, 2016 9:12 am
by Shonburg » Thu May 19, 2016 9:52 am
Section 3. Restroom Accommodations
In North Carolina, private businesses can set their own rules for their own restroom, locker rooms and shower facilities, free from government interference.
Under current law, every multi-occupancy restroom, locker room or shower facility located in a cabinet agency must be designated for, and only used by persons based on their biological sex. (con't)
by Grenartia » Thu May 19, 2016 10:33 am
Renewed Imperial Germany wrote:Shonburg wrote:1. I'm insulted by your use of the term "actual women", I'm as much a woman as any of them. Secondly, allowing women to use the women's restroom is not denying women rights, as that is a clear contradiction.
2. Abuse, assault, and discrimination are not simply "hurt feelings".
3. So? I served in the Peace Corps and would gladly join up if there was ever a threat like Nazi Germany again. Oh wait...the military won't accept me, a healthy and able bodied person willing to fight for my country, because of what is between my legs.
4. See #2
5. Fallacy of relative privation. Just because someone is starving in Somalia doesn't make my struggle go away.
6. Ah yes, because when I'm out at a party in my best dress, highheels, lipstick, eyeliner, eyeshadow, high-heels, painted nails, jewelry, carrying a purse, and are clearly possessing of breasts, I should use the men's bathroom.
3. Same. I kinda wanted to be a Navy pilot. Whatever. I'm either going to go into Law or Law Enforcement, depending on if I really feel like scrapping up cash for law school.
by Scandinavian Nations » Thu May 19, 2016 10:51 am
Boineburg wrote:Personally, I'm all for the bill.
I think it's absolute bs when people claim that it's "anti-LGBT", as well. The bill only mentioned transgenders, not gays and lesbians as Sarah Preston says.
by Aphryss » Thu May 19, 2016 11:03 am
Scandinavian Nations wrote:Boineburg wrote:Personally, I'm all for the bill.
I think it's absolute bs when people claim that it's "anti-LGBT", as well. The bill only mentioned transgenders, not gays and lesbians as Sarah Preston says.
This is a stupid and backwards bill.
And not because it discriminates against trannies. Maybe that too, but not just because of that.
The segregation of bathrooms is one of the things that instill sexism; we should be moving towards an increased acceptance of gender-neutral facilities. The only reason they're separate in the first place is the medieval idea that someone observing a person of another gender naked means they're going to immediately cheat on their spouse.
In the meanwhile, while the society isn't quite ready for that (let's hope Islam doesn't have its way with making "naked" mean "without a hijab"...), we can at least progress towards treating the gender labels as a suggestion. That if there's someone in there, they're probably the marked gender, and that the urinals are behind that door, but otherwise it's up to you to choose what to do.
Passing laws about who should use which bathroom is a step backwards, not forward.
Regardless of whether you stand on the family vs liberty divide.
by Des-Bal » Thu May 19, 2016 11:42 am
Aphryss wrote:I suspect you didn't intend it that way, and I can't speak for all transgender people, but many of us consider "tranny/ies" to be very offensive; personally I'd say it's equivalent to calling a black person a nigger.
Cekoviu wrote:DES-BAL: Introverted, blunt, focused, utilitarian. Hard to read; not verbose online or likely in real life. Places little emphasis on interpersonal relationships, particularly with online strangers for whom the investment would outweigh the returns.
Desired perception: Logical, intellectual
Public perception: Neutral-positive - blunt, cold, logical, skilled at debating
Mindset: Logos
by Boineburg » Thu May 19, 2016 1:37 pm
Grenartia wrote:1. No major plumbing changes are required. In many cases, the absolute most that would have to happen would be knocking down a wall between the two rooms, and even that isn't strictly necessary.
2. It was implied that the statement held true within the limits of NC's jurisdiction.
3. & 4. False dichotomy. I fully support gender-neutral bathrooms, but I also realize that without the legal right to use the restroom that is in best accordance with one's gender (i.e., not sex), gender-neutral restrooms become little more than a new "colored restroom" for us.
by Renewed Imperial Germany » Thu May 19, 2016 1:41 pm
Boineburg wrote:Grenartia wrote:1. No major plumbing changes are required. In many cases, the absolute most that would have to happen would be knocking down a wall between the two rooms, and even that isn't strictly necessary.
2. It was implied that the statement held true within the limits of NC's jurisdiction.
3. & 4. False dichotomy. I fully support gender-neutral bathrooms, but I also realize that without the legal right to use the restroom that is in best accordance with one's gender (i.e., not sex), gender-neutral restrooms become little more than a new "colored restroom" for us.
You lost me. How dare you compare something so frivolous to racial segregation and Jim Crow laws? There are no lynch mobs after you. You're not receiving any less quality restrooms than anyone else. Such a comparison is simply disgusting and uncalled for.
I hope I haven't triggered your self-diagnosed PTSD with this post.
by Gauthier » Thu May 19, 2016 1:53 pm
Des-Bal wrote:Aphryss wrote:I suspect you didn't intend it that way, and I can't speak for all transgender people, but many of us consider "tranny/ies" to be very offensive; personally I'd say it's equivalent to calling a black person a nigger.
It's not at all equivalent. You can tell it's not equivalent because the more acceptable "trans" is differentiated by one phoneme. Nigger is so offensive that it's pretty hard to get close to without being offensive. You can argue that "Y" is a generally disrespectful suffix but no, tranny is not the same as nigger.
by Renewed Imperial Germany » Thu May 19, 2016 1:57 pm
Des-Bal wrote:Aphryss wrote:I suspect you didn't intend it that way, and I can't speak for all transgender people, but many of us consider "tranny/ies" to be very offensive; personally I'd say it's equivalent to calling a black person a nigger.
It's not at all equivalent. You can tell it's not equivalent because the more acceptable "trans" is differentiated by one phoneme. Nigger is so offensive that it's pretty hard to get close to without being offensive. You can argue that "Y" is a generally disrespectful suffix but no, tranny is not the same as nigger.
by Carl Yastrzemski » Thu May 19, 2016 2:02 pm
Gauthier wrote:Des-Bal wrote:
It's not at all equivalent. You can tell it's not equivalent because the more acceptable "trans" is differentiated by one phoneme. Nigger is so offensive that it's pretty hard to get close to without being offensive. You can argue that "Y" is a generally disrespectful suffix but no, tranny is not the same as nigger.
Someone black claiming that the struggles and insults that LGBTs are going through are incomparable to the Civil Rights Movement. Guess fighting for the right to sit in the front of the bus is necessary if you want throw another group under it to begin with.
by Vassenor » Thu May 19, 2016 2:04 pm
Carl Yastrzemski wrote:Gauthier wrote:
Someone black claiming that the struggles and insults that LGBTs are going through are incomparable to the Civil Rights Movement. Guess fighting for the right to sit in the front of the bus is necessary if you want throw another group under it to begin with.
When the LGBT community is enslaved because of their sexual orientation or gender identity, you can make this claim. Until such time, it's kind of insulting to the black community.
by Carl Yastrzemski » Thu May 19, 2016 2:05 pm
Vassenor wrote:Carl Yastrzemski wrote:
When the LGBT community is enslaved because of their sexual orientation or gender identity, you can make this claim. Until such time, it's kind of insulting to the black community.
And we're back to relative privation again. This whole "you're not allowed to complain because you don't have it as bad as these people" shtick.
by The V O I D » Thu May 19, 2016 2:08 pm
Carl Yastrzemski wrote:Vassenor wrote:
And we're back to relative privation again. This whole "you're not allowed to complain because you don't have it as bad as these people" shtick.
Painting with a broad brush, aren't we? Just because one can't compare to the struggle of one group doesn't make their struggle any less real. But let's not bequeath equivalency between experiences, because that's revisionist hogwash.
by Gauthier » Thu May 19, 2016 2:09 pm
Carl Yastrzemski wrote:Vassenor wrote:
And we're back to relative privation again. This whole "you're not allowed to complain because you don't have it as bad as these people" shtick.
Painting with a broad brush, aren't we? Just because one can't compare to the struggle of one group doesn't make their struggle any less real. But let's not bequeath equivalency between experiences, because that's revisionist hogwash.
by Des-Bal » Thu May 19, 2016 2:10 pm
Renewed Imperial Germany wrote:
As a transperson, I can say that "tranny" is equally as offensive as "nigger." You aren't a transperson, so don't you dare try and say its not offensive. After all, by your logic, nigger shouldn't be offensive - its just a cognate of Negro, which really just means black, and used to be the polite way to refer to a black person. So please, stop your bullshit circle jerking. Its a slur, fucking deal with it.
Cekoviu wrote:DES-BAL: Introverted, blunt, focused, utilitarian. Hard to read; not verbose online or likely in real life. Places little emphasis on interpersonal relationships, particularly with online strangers for whom the investment would outweigh the returns.
Desired perception: Logical, intellectual
Public perception: Neutral-positive - blunt, cold, logical, skilled at debating
Mindset: Logos
by Carl Yastrzemski » Thu May 19, 2016 2:10 pm
The V O I D wrote:Carl Yastrzemski wrote:
Painting with a broad brush, aren't we? Just because one can't compare to the struggle of one group doesn't make their struggle any less real. But let's not bequeath equivalency between experiences, because that's revisionist hogwash.
Discrimination is discrimination. End of discussion. You can argue about whether or not its equivalent all you want, it is still discrimination, and it still needs to stop, and people are still being hurt by it. LGBTs are murdered, assaulted, raped, and all other colors of the rainbow for their sexual orientation or gender identity just as much as blacks were for the color of their skin in the 1800s and 1900s.
In fact, they were murdered, assaulted and raped even more than blacks before the 1800s. So, you can't claim it isn't equivalent.
by Des-Bal » Thu May 19, 2016 2:12 pm
Vassenor wrote:And we're back to relative privation again. This whole "you're not allowed to complain because you don't have it as bad as these people" shtick.
Cekoviu wrote:DES-BAL: Introverted, blunt, focused, utilitarian. Hard to read; not verbose online or likely in real life. Places little emphasis on interpersonal relationships, particularly with online strangers for whom the investment would outweigh the returns.
Desired perception: Logical, intellectual
Public perception: Neutral-positive - blunt, cold, logical, skilled at debating
Mindset: Logos
by Boineburg » Thu May 19, 2016 2:15 pm
Vassenor wrote:Carl Yastrzemski wrote:
When the LGBT community is enslaved because of their sexual orientation or gender identity, you can make this claim. Until such time, it's kind of insulting to the black community.
And we're back to relative privation again. This whole "you're not allowed to complain because you don't have it as bad as these people" shtick.
by Carl Yastrzemski » Thu May 19, 2016 2:15 pm
Des-Bal wrote:Vassenor wrote:And we're back to relative privation again. This whole "you're not allowed to complain because you don't have it as bad as these people" shtick.
Who said that? Who is saying don't complain? I'm not really a fan of the oppression olympics but when someone says "our thing is exactly the same as their thing" responding that it is not is totally reasonable.
by Gauthier » Thu May 19, 2016 2:17 pm
by The V O I D » Thu May 19, 2016 2:17 pm
Carl Yastrzemski wrote:The V O I D wrote:
Discrimination is discrimination. End of discussion. You can argue about whether or not its equivalent all you want, it is still discrimination, and it still needs to stop, and people are still being hurt by it. LGBTs are murdered, assaulted, raped, and all other colors of the rainbow for their sexual orientation or gender identity just as much as blacks were for the color of their skin in the 1800s and 1900s.
In fact, they were murdered, assaulted and raped even more than blacks before the 1800s. So, you can't claim it isn't equivalent.
I would love to see your sources for those statistics, because I'm willing to bet the money in my pocket against the money in your pocket that those statistics aren't true at all.
by Wallenburg » Thu May 19, 2016 2:18 pm
by Boineburg » Thu May 19, 2016 2:21 pm
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