Islamic State Crisis Megathread (ISIS/ISIL/IS) II

[Washington Resistance Army]

Since when is calling Daeshbags and the like what they are trolling? Or pointing out why an idea is stupid? I'm actually curious because both of those things happen quite often in General and I've never been yelled at over it before.

It could be construed as troll-bait. Your post got reported. I ruled it not actionable but a little less invective couldn't hurt.

Fair enough, not my intent but I'll keep it in mind.

I'd like to say that the Middle East will be better once the Saudis collapse and thus cannot fund the export of wahhabism, but it won't.

Unfortunately not. Salafi-Wahhabiism (the latter being a movement of the former) can be combated, however.

I see that being a losing battle as long as the Saudis continue to pump money into people who preach those things. Which really sucks.

[Ganos Lao]

But it is related to the narrow mindedness that causes the whole thing to go Haywire.

The Salafism of the Saudis and other countries and movements feeds the narrow minded fundamentalism that gives rise to groups like ISIS, who, despite their odd esoteric beleifs, are still Salafi Jihadists like Al Qaeda at the end of the day.

This is common knowledge by now. Or, at least, it should be.

But it is related to the narrow mindedness that causes the whole thing to go Haywire.

The Salafism of the Saudis and other countries and movements feeds the narrow minded fundamentalism that gives rise to groups like ISIS, who, despite their odd esoteric beleifs, are still Salafi Jihadists like Al Qaeda at the end of the day.

Very true.

Saudi Arabia ultimately bears a massive chunk of the blame for this.

So does the United States. The United States has consistently coddled the Saudi Arabians (for decades, since FDR even!) despite doing all this. They both ultimately bear a massive chunk of the blame.

And we can throw on other Western countries too. Did you know Canada spent billions on foreign military aid to the Saudis?

Canada's largest arms deal ever! Touted by the Canadians involved as a victory for Canada's economy, something along those lines.

And let's not forget the French, who conveniently missed all the red flags that led to the Paris attacks just so they could ramp up airstrikes from bases in the UAE, another known exporter of Islamic terrorism.

Now I'm not saying for certain the French let the attacks happen just to get an excuse to get involved further, but what perfect timing, right?

Very true.

Saudi Arabia ultimately bears a massive chunk of the blame for this.

I'd like to say that the Middle East will be better once the Saudis collapse and thus cannot fund the export of wahhabism, but it won't.

Of course it won't. Groups like Daesh will move right in, not to mention the Western lapdogs of the Saudis (and American oil barons) running in there in such a hurry to preserve their money flow.

No Saudi soldiers have died fighting ISIS and Iranian imperialism in Yemen.

It doesn't matter. Whether they know it or not, their ideology is the main contribution to it.

Iranian "imperialism" in Yemen is bad.

Saudi imperialism in the Persian Gulf and the systematic and deliberate funding of Islamic terrorism abroad is good.

Right? Right? That's why I lol'd IRL when I saw the Saudi prince try to talk shit to Trump. Say what you want about Trump, but at least he doesn't hide his intentions like that hypocrite and his ilk do.

No Saudi soldiers have died fighting ISIS and Iranian imperialism in Yemen.

The constant financial support for the growth of extremist islam sure as fuck isn't helping the situation, I'd reckon.

Nor is the constant financial and military support of the United States and other Western countries.

The constant financial support for the growth of extremist islam sure as fuck isn't helping the situation, I'd reckon.

Saudi Arabia funds Islamic Freedom fighters, when Afghanistan was invaded by the USSR Grand Mufti Sheikh Ibn Baz(RA) called for Jihad against these foreign invaders. In the 90's when the Communists began genocide against Bosniaks Saudi Arabia funded rebels King Salman(RA) actually founded a charity to gives arms to the rebels, also in the 90's when the Russians began another campaign The Saudis called for the people to defend themselves from Russian agression. Now the Saudis call on the people of Syria to fight Iranian backed state terror and the Iranian deep cover organization ISIS.

The Serbians were Communist?

Saudi Arabia funds Islamic Freedom fighters, when Afghanistan was invaded by the USSR Grand Mufti Sheikh Ibn Baz(RA) called for Jihad against these foreign invaders. In the 90's when the Communists began genocide against Bosniaks Saudi Arabia funded rebels King Salman(RA) actually founded a charity to gives arms to the rebels, also in the 90's when the Russians began another campaign The Saudis called for the people to defend themselves from Russian agression. Now the Saudis call on the people of Syria to fight Iranian backed state terror and the Iranian deep cover organization ISIS.

That brand of "Islamic Freedom Fighters" are also a bunch of fundamentalist idiots who don't need funding.

And "Iranian deep cover organization"? Really? Why the fuck would Iran and it's allies be so adamant on destroying it's own organization? That's just a retarded idea.

Because when you need to promote a narrative, it's important facts and logic don't get in the way.

That brand of "Islamic Freedom Fighters" are also a bunch of fundamentalist idiots who don't need funding.

If people like the Taliban and Al Qaeda, who sentence rape victims to lashings, kill LGBT folks, violently oppress religious minorities, conduct terror attacks on civilians, and routinely invent new ways to make everyone's life a hell are what he considers 'Islamic Freedom Fighters', I'd hate to see what he'd consider extreme.

And "Iranian deep cover organization"? Really? Why the fuck would Iran and it's allies be so adamant on destroying it's own organization? That's just a retarded idea.

It's a lot easier to assume a conspiracy than accept that people from your own religious sect/tribe can be massive cunts, especially in places like the Middle East.

Pretty much this.

Yes it's a well kown fact The KSA funded Chechen revolutionaries Amir Khattab was Saudi.

And Khattab was a terrorist as were many of the Chechen separatists of the Second Chechen War. Hell, the Wahabists caused many of the secular and less religious rebels to start supporting Russia.

This isn't to mention Saudi, either state or individual, funding for various terrorist groups. Whether they target India, Russia, Israel or even the West.

The Wahhabists are just waiting for the spark to the fuse, really, to topple the Saudi monarchy and establish their own DPRK style state.

And that'll go over so well in Washington. "The previous theocratic douchebags, while admittedly bloodthirsty tyrants and backstabbing opportunists, are far better than the current theocratic douchebags because at least the former ones (pretended to be) were nice to us. These new ones just tell us to drop dead in the name of Allah or something."

Nasser said it best that even a shoe has more honor than the Saudis.

[The Nuclear Fist]

I'd like to say that the Middle East will be better once the Saudis collapse and thus cannot fund the export of wahhabism, but it won't.

Unfortunately not. Salafi-Wahhabiism (the latter being a movement of the former) can be combated, however.

I don't doubt it, but I also don't think it's a beast the West can slay. I feel like the more we meddle in the Middle East, the more brutal and chaotic things are going to get. As shitty as it might be to say, I think the Middle East is just going to have to do with some bloodletting in the meantime. Given the sheer amount of sectarian and tribal squabbling, and the fact that the nations of the Middle East are largely artificial constructs, I think that part of the world is just going to have duke it out until the borders and governments reflect the nature of the whole thing. Shitty as that is to say.

[Ganos Lao]

I see that being a losing battle as long as the Saudis continue to pump money into people who preach those things. Which really sucks.

The only way to stop Saudi money from being pumped into such people is to stop Western money from being pumped into Saudi Arabia.

But until the US and other countries drop the act, let alone the dependence on oil, that won't ever happen.

[Ganos Lao]

Unfortunately not. Salafi-Wahhabiism (the latter being a movement of the former) can be combated, however.

I don't doubt it, but I also don't think it's a beast the West can slay. I feel like the more we meddle in the Middle East, the more brutal and chaotic things are going to get. As shitty as it might be to say, I think the Middle East is just going to have to do with some bloodletting in the meantime. Given the sheer amount of sectarian and tribal squabbling, and the fact that the nations of the Middle East are largely artificial constructs, I think that part of the world is just going to have duke it out until the borders and governments reflect the nature of the whole thing. Shitty as that is to say.

Now why would the West try to slay the beast that makes them so much money? The West doesn't have any desire to slay anything because that'd get in the way of profit.

[The Nuclear Fist]

I see that being a losing battle as long as the Saudis continue to pump money into people who preach those things. Which really sucks.

I'm not so sure that's going to help, to be honest. When the Saudi government crashes, and it will, things are only going to get more chaotic in the region. I don't think the Middle East is going to see anything resembling a calm period, or even peace, for a very long time.

[The Nuclear Fist]

I don't doubt it, but I also don't think it's a beast the West can slay. I feel like the more we meddle in the Middle East, the more brutal and chaotic things are going to get. As shitty as it might be to say, I think the Middle East is just going to have to do with some bloodletting in the meantime. Given the sheer amount of sectarian and tribal squabbling, and the fact that the nations of the Middle East are largely artificial constructs, I think that part of the world is just going to have duke it out until the borders and governments reflect the nature of the whole thing. Shitty as that is to say.

Now why would the West try to slay the beast that makes them so much money? The West doesn't have any desire to slay anything because that'd get in the way of profit.

Er, I don't think the Middle East is making anyone a profit. Stable nations mean stable economies, economies that can be bought into, and stable governments that can be bought into. Endless ethno-religious clusterfuckery just drains western money and floods it with refugees.

I don't believe for a second that the west really wants the status quo. I'm not convinced anyone really likes the way things are going. But since every side to this conflict is damn near totally incompetent or otherwise diametrically opposed to every other side, I don't think anybody can really figure out how to fix it.

[Washington Resistance Army]

I see that being a losing battle as long as the Saudis continue to pump money into people who preach those things. Which really sucks.

The only way to stop Saudi money from being pumped into such people is to stop Western money from being pumped into Saudi Arabia.

But until the US and other countries drop the act, let alone the dependence on oil, that won't ever happen.

Maybe eventually that could start to change, I don't see it being very likely though. Unless Trump is elected and someone tells him that the Saudis are stealing our jobs of course.

I see that being a losing battle as long as the Saudis continue to pump money into people who preach those things. Which really sucks.

I'm not so sure that's going to help, to be honest. When the Saudi government crashes, and it will, things are only going to get more chaotic in the region. I don't think the Middle East is going to see anything resembling a calm period, or even peace, for a very long time.

Yeah you're right on that point, the region is the perfect example of a clusterfuck. It's been that way for quite a while too.

Now why would the West try to slay the beast that makes them so much money? The West doesn't have any desire to slay anything because that'd get in the way of profit.

Er, I don't think the Middle East is making anyone a profit. Stable nations mean stable economies, economies that can be bought into, and stable governments that can be bought into. Endless ethno-religious clusterfuckery just drains western money and floods it with refugees.

I don't believe for a second that the west really wants the status quo. I'm not convinced anyone really likes the way things are going. But since every side to this conflict is damn near totally incompetent or otherwise diametrically opposed to every other side, I don't think anybody can really figure out how to fix it.

Nonsense, arms manufacturers are making a literal killing

[Connori Pilgrims]

I see that being a losing battle as long as the Saudis continue to pump money into people who preach those things. Which really sucks.

The only way to stop Saudi money from being pumped into such people is to stop Western money from being pumped into Saudi Arabia.

But until the US and other countries drop the act, let alone the dependence on oil, that won't ever happen.

The US (at least) isn't dependent on Saudi oil anymore, ever since 2014 when shale oil got big. US shale oil is part of the reason global oil prices are now so low (other reasons include slumping global demand, Iran losing some sanctions, China's economy restructuring, and the Saudis refusing to drop production in a doomed bid to keep market shares). This has resulted in the Saudis literally burning money - both to the fact that the price of oil is like 50% less than what is needed for them to break-even (and said unwillingness to cut down on producing oil) and all the welfare the King is handing out to keep their indolent unemployed from rioting. Its so bad they've raised taxes in the first time since forever just last year.

The US doesn't need oil dependence to want to keep Saudi Arabia in its camp (even if nominally). China is waiting in the wings to replace the Yanks if they ever leave the Sauds to dry - they've already started in the weapons supply department for those who don't know (Saudi Arabia has nuke-capable ballistic missiles courtesy of China; even without nukes I know I wouldn't want those things falling into ISIS hands). Saudi collapse would still send the oil and other stock markets reeling, complicating a still fragile economic time for the globe. Hell just all the investment and hardware the West gave that miserable kingdom would be a boon for Daesh or Al-Qaeda, whoever gets it first.

As much as it is repugnant, the West can't cut the Sauds off unless its willing to glass them immediately afterwards - and that in itself will lead to much bitter fallout, literal and figurative. They are too valuable now to let go.

[Ganos Lao]

They are too valuable now to let go.

Oh, I'm already aware of that. I've said as much time and time again myself.

But even if you look past the oil, there's still other reasons why the West props them up. Just look at that Canadian arms deal I mentioned.

Whether it's with oil money or military aid or just patting them on the back for being appointed to the UN's Human Rights Panel as the head, it all ends up propping up a disgusting regime that doesn't deserve it, and that's my problem.

[Rabopari]

Unfortunately not. Salafi-Wahhabiism (the latter being a movement of the former) can be combated, however.

I don't doubt it, but I also don't think it's a beast the West can slay. I feel like the more we meddle in the Middle East, the more brutal and chaotic things are going to get. As shitty as it might be to say, I think the Middle East is just going to have to do with some bloodletting in the meantime. Given the sheer amount of sectarian and tribal squabbling, and the fact that the nations of the Middle East are largely artificial constructs, I think that part of the world is just going to have duke it out until the borders and governments reflect the nature of the whole thing. Shitty as that is to say.

The west is SUPPORTING Wahhabi-Salafism, not slaying it.

[The Rich Port]

I don't doubt it, but I also don't think it's a beast the West can slay. I feel like the more we meddle in the Middle East, the more brutal and chaotic things are going to get. As shitty as it might be to say, I think the Middle East is just going to have to do with some bloodletting in the meantime. Given the sheer amount of sectarian and tribal squabbling, and the fact that the nations of the Middle East are largely artificial constructs, I think that part of the world is just going to have duke it out until the borders and governments reflect the nature of the whole thing. Shitty as that is to say.

The west is SUPPORTING Wahhabi-Salafism, not slaying it.

... Yeah no we totally love that shit.

That's why we beat our women in the street and make them wear burqas...

Wait...

[Ganos Lao]

The west is SUPPORTING Wahhabi-Salafism, not slaying it.

... Yeah no we totally love that shit.

That's why we beat our women in the street and make them wear burqas...

Wait...

He's referring to all the aid money, diplomatic support, etc given to those who export such shit.

[Saiwania]

Baghdad is Sunni, The Imam Abu Hanifa(RA) mosque is there, it has a few Shia sub districts but otherwise it's a Sunni city.

I heard that Baghdad used to be Sunni under Saddam but became majority Shia after the US occupation. The Shia gained most political power and thus the Sunnis were gradually driven out of Baghdad under al-Maliki.

[The Rich Port]

... Yeah no we totally love that shit.

That's why we beat our women in the street and make them wear burqas...

Wait...

He's referring to all the aid money, diplomatic support, etc given to those who export such shit.

Well, we're not doing that either.

[Ganos Lao]

He's referring to all the aid money, diplomatic support, etc given to those who export such shit.

Well, we're not doing that either.

Really now? Because what else would you call, say, the Canadian miitary aid deal I mentioned earlier?

[Napkiraly]

Well, we're not doing that either.

Really now? Because what else would you call, say, the Canadian miitary aid deal I mentioned earlier?

As a Canadian, economic progress.

[The Rich Port]

Well, we're not doing that either.

Really now? Because what else would you call, say, the Canadian miitary aid deal I mentioned earlier?

Got a source for it?

[Napkiraly]

Really now? Because what else would you call, say, the Canadian miitary aid deal I mentioned earlier?

Got a source for it?

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/stephane-dion-saudi-arms-deal-1.3390854

[Risottia]

Yeah, the Chetniks are notoriously commies.
Uh uh.


The concept of "charity" must be quite relative.


Are you basically admitting that the Saudis have supported the separatists in Chechnya who wanted to take a part of Russia and turn it into a Sultanate, by any chance?

Yes it's a well kown fact The KSA funded Chechen revolutionaries Amir Khattab was Saudi.

So, when it's foreign-funded separatists of YOUR choice they're "revolutionaries" who are defending from "Russian aggression", who cares if they bomb schools or hospitals! (plus, there's this little thing about Russian aggression against ITS OWN TERRITORY... meh!)

But when it's foreign-funded separatists NOT of YOUR choice they must be given a Dalek treatment (see Houthis).

Uhm.

I wonder if you're doing this professionally. In that case you're not doing a very good job.

[Ghuraba Al-Khorusani]

Salafiyah isn't the problem many Salafis are anti-ISIS or keep to themselves. The problem is Khameni he has abused Sunnis abroad and in Iran, ISIS their creation because they know every true Sunni is angry at them. ISIS is an Iranian pawn for us in The Sunni-Salafi community look bad people are even burning the Flags of Tawheed. The sacred writting on these flags should never be abused and yet because ISIS thugs go around slaughtering people, people feel the need to burn something sacred to Islam. And Iran loves this, this hatred for Islam I can gurantee everyone Iran wants to increase converts to 12er Shiism because the Salafi Madhab is the fastest growing school. Iran knows if they can have a movement that Salafi/Sunni by name and has beautiful name like "The Islamic State of Iraq and Al-Sham" they can attract Muhajireen (foreign fighters) all of whom are Salafis. And this imaginary Islamic State flies the banners with Muhammad(SAAWS)'s own handwriting and Seal they can look good. While Iran commands corrupt people like The former Iraqi president Nouri Maliki to allow ISIS to take over a large portion of Iraq and to allow them to do as much damage as possible than to allow IRGC terrorists into Iraq to look like heroes. When ISIS took overn Northern Iraq most Sunni groups in Iraq helped out from former Ba'athists to Sunni insurgents. After that ISIS began attacking Sunnis in Iraq Izzat Ibrahim Al-Douri said "I congratulate the knights of ISIS for standing up to Iranian oppression in Iraq" than ISIS began attacking Douri's group JRTN. ISIS in Syria kills and murders and beheads FSA members and their number one enemy is The Syrian opposition, from Al-Nusra to FSA secularists. When Russian terrorists began bombing Syria ISIS got barley any bombings but guess who did get all the bombings The Syrian opposition. Iran has already sent IRGC thugs into Syria to work with Shabiha gang members and Hezbillah. ISIS could defeat Assad's government in a few days Assad doesn't have much of a military now it's just Shiite militas and some tribal fighters they lost most their army in fighting in Idlib and in Aleppo. So ISIS could take Damascus they took Ar-Raqqah and Deir Az Zour these are fairly large cities and yet their frontier in South west Syria hasn't changed in a year! Because they are busy doing Iran's dirty work of killing opposition groups. ISIS even has a bit of territory in Damascus in the Yarmouk camp and they don't fire rockets or send fleets of suicide bombers to his palace which isn't too far from the Yarmouk camp, but they fire rockets and send fleets of suicide bombers to Opposition groups. They bomb Turkey a large supporter of opposition groups and waist their time shooting people in France who have nothing to do with the war, for what? To make Assad and Iran look good because now ISIS is famous for being "The evil Sunni terrorist Syrian rebel group" now if was a world leader who didn't know any better I'd start supporting Assad and baning refugees too. Iran now can cause refugees fleeing Syria to suffer with rejection because of ISIS. Iran has Sunni activists arrested in other countries because they appear to local governments to be Pro-ISIS even if they aren't. So yes this an Iranian plot.

[Ghuraba Al-Khorusani]

Yes it's a well kown fact The KSA funded Chechen revolutionaries Amir Khattab was Saudi.

So, when it's foreign-funded separatists of YOUR choice they're "revolutionaries" who are defending from "Russian aggression", who cares if they bomb schools or hospitals! (plus, there's this little thing about Russian aggression against ITS OWN TERRITORY... meh!)

But when it's foreign-funded separatists NOT of YOUR choice they must be given a Dalek treatment (see Houthis).

Uhm.

I wonder if you're doing this professionally. In that case you're not doing a very good job.

Caucaus Emirate condemns killing civilians they condemned that Boston attack in 2013 and they don't attack schools and hospitals for no reason Russian military units occupy those buildings so they tactically sweep them of Russian forces. The Caucasians have been fighting Russia for 600 hundred years have you ever herd of a man named Imam Shameel(RA)? The Caucasian fight is no diffrent than the Palestinian one. But Russia isn't the topic unfortunately.

[White European States]

Nuke them! Nukes exist for some reason! Nuke, nuke, nuke dukem them!

[Kubra]

Nuke them! Nukes exist for some reason! Nuke, nuke, nuke dukem them!

isn't nuclear winter a form of white genocide

[White European States]

Nuke them! Nukes exist for some reason! Nuke, nuke, nuke dukem them!

isn't nuclear winter a form of white genocide

No.

Except is their destroy Europe, America and Australia.