Anglican church against gay marriage

[Grand Calvert]

Let's face it; if the Sexual Revolution never happened, STDs would not be as common. Though I would say that conservative abstinence does work, but only on the individual level. As in, you've got to really be convinced yourself that there's a good reason to stay chaste until marriage.

Again, no. That's just not a fact, STD's were all over the place before the sexual revolution. As for the individual level, well, there is no good reason.

Well ultimately the only way to fight sexual temptation is to be devoted to something greater than yourself (i.e. God) which is why teaching abstinence does not work in a secular society. That's my point.

[Constantinopolis]

And finally, one last point before I sign off: The conversation about STDs is misguided. Sexual promiscuity is not wrong because it might give you STDs. That's just a potential side effect.

Sexual promiscuity is wrong because it injures your soul by promoting selfishness. As Christians, we are called to love our neighbors as ourselves, to erase the mental distinction between us and others, to empty ourselves of concerns for the self. We must strive to not even think of ourselves at all. To always think of others. To allow the concern for others to fill our minds and souls completely. Living in communion. That is the Way. Few attain it, but all should strive towards it.

Sexual promiscuity makes it impossible to follow the Way, because one who is promiscuous uses sex for individual gratification. Promiscuity makes sex about me and my desires, when it should always be about my partner. Ideally, it should be entirely about my partner, and not at all about myself. The proper Christian attitude to sex is to use it as an expression of selfless love. To give pleasure to another, whom you love. Of course, it's fine to also receive pleasure from them, but one should never seek it. Sexual pleasure should be seen as a gift. It's nice to receive gifts, but we don't go around asking people, "so, I want a gift right now, can I have one?"

And for the vast, overwhelming majority of people, only a long-term, committed monogamous relationship can cultivate the kind of absolutely selfless love that makes the Christian approach to sex possible. That doesn't mean that every committed monogamous relationship will contain this kind of love, but it does mean that a committed monogamous relationship is (usually) required as a starting point.

TL;DR - Promiscuity is wrong because sex should always be about making your partner happy, and those who are promiscuous seek to make themselves happy.

[Grand Calvert]

And finally, one last point before I sign off: The conversation about STDs is misguided. Sexual promiscuity is not wrong because it might give you STDs. That's just a potential side effect.

Sexual promiscuity is wrong because it injures your soul by promoting selfishness. As Christians, we are called to love our neighbors as ourselves, to erase the mental distinction between us and others, to empty ourselves of concerns for the self. We must strive to not even think of ourselves at all. To always think of others. To allow the concern for others to fill our minds and souls completely. Living in communion. That is the Way. Few attain it, but all should strive towards it.

Sexual promiscuity makes it impossible to follow the Way, because one who is promiscuous uses sex for individual gratification. Promiscuity makes sex about me and my desires, when it should always be about my partner. Ideally, it should be entirely about my partner, and not at all about myself. The proper Christian attitude to sex is to use it as an expression of selfless love. To give pleasure to another, whom you love. Of course, it's fine to also receive pleasure from them, but one should never seek it. Sexual pleasure should be seen as a gift. It's nice to receive gifts, but we don't go around asking people, "so, I want a gift right now, can I have one?"

And for the vast, overwhelming majority of people, only a long-term, committed monogamous relationship can cultivate the kind of absolutely selfless love that makes the Christian approach to sex possible. That doesn't mean that every committed monogamous relationship will contain this kind of love, but it does mean that a committed monogamous relationship is (usually) required as a starting point.

TL;DR - Promiscuity is wrong because sex should always be about making your partner happy, and those who are promiscuous seek to make themselves happy.

I agree fully.

[Washington Resistance Army]

It doesn't, all the evidence shows this. In the US for example, abstinence education conservative areas almost always have the highest teen pregnancy and STD rates. People are going to have sex and all abstinence education does is make people unprepared for safe sex.

With any luck civil unions will eventually have all the benefits of marriage so we can let people keep their stupid beliefs and have everyone equal so we're all happy. That's probably hoping for too much though.

Did you even read the second half of that quote? You're misquoting me.

I did, you're still wrong. Abstinence may also be psychologically unhealthy, but I haven't read up on that in a while so I'd have to go searching again.

Again, no. That's just not a fact, STD's were all over the place before the sexual revolution. As for the individual level, well, there is no good reason.

Well ultimately the only way to fight sexual temptation is to be devoted to something greater than yourself (i.e. God) which is why teaching abstinence does not work in a secular society. That's my point.

You still haven't answered my question of WHY sexual temptation is wrong.

[The Flutterlands]

And finally, one last point before I sign off: The conversation about STDs is misguided. Sexual promiscuity is not wrong because it might give you STDs. That's just a potential side effect.

Sexual promiscuity is wrong because it injures your soul by promoting selfishness. As Christians, we are called to love our neighbors as ourselves, to erase the mental distinction between us and others, to empty ourselves of concerns for the self. We must strive to not even think of ourselves at all. To always think of others. To allow the concern for others to fill our minds and souls completely. Living in communion. That is the Way. Few attain it, but all should strive towards it.

Sexual promiscuity makes it impossible to follow the Way, because one who is promiscuous uses sex for individual gratification. Promiscuity makes sex about me and my desires, when it should always be about my partner. Ideally, it should be entirely about my partner, and not at all about myself. The proper Christian attitude to sex is to use it as an expression of selfless love. To give pleasure to another, whom you love. Of course, it's fine to also receive pleasure from them, but one should never seek it. Sexual pleasure should be seen as a gift. It's nice to receive gifts, but we don't go around asking people, "so, I want a gift right now, can I have one?"

And for the vast, overwhelming majority of people, only a long-term, committed monogamous relationship can cultivate the kind of absolutely selfless love that makes the Christian approach to sex possible. That doesn't mean that every committed monogamous relationship will contain this kind of love, but it does mean that a committed monogamous relationship is (usually) required as a starting point.

TL;DR - Promiscuity is wrong because sex should always be about making your partner happy, and those who are promiscuous seek to make themselves happy.

I agree fully.

Me too.

[Grand Calvert]

Did you even read the second half of that quote? You're misquoting me.

I did, you're still wrong. Abstinence may also be psychologically unhealthy, but I haven't read up on that in a while so I'd have to go searching again.

Well ultimately the only way to fight sexual temptation is to be devoted to something greater than yourself (i.e. God) which is why teaching abstinence does not work in a secular society. That's my point.

You still haven't answered my question of WHY sexual temptation is wrong.

You'll never be convinced that sexual temptation is wrong because you aren't a Christian.

[Washington Resistance Army]

And finally, one last point before I sign off: The conversation about STDs is misguided. Sexual promiscuity is not wrong because it might give you STDs. That's just a potential side effect.

Sexual promiscuity is wrong because it injures your soul by promoting selfishness. As Christians, we are called to love our neighbors as ourselves, to erase the mental distinction between us and others, to empty ourselves of concerns for the self. We must strive to not even think of ourselves at all. To always think of others. To allow the concern for others to fill our minds and souls completely. Living in communion. That is the Way. Few attain it, but all should strive towards it.

Sexual promiscuity makes it impossible to follow the Way, because one who is promiscuous uses sex for individual gratification. Promiscuity makes sex about me and my desires, when it should always be about my partner. Ideally, it should be entirely about my partner, and not at all about myself. The proper Christian attitude to sex is to use it as an expression of selfless love. To give pleasure to another, whom you love. Of course, it's fine to also receive pleasure from them, but one should never seek it. Sexual pleasure should be seen as a gift. It's nice to receive gifts, but we don't go around asking people, "so, I want a gift right now, can I have one?"

And for the vast, overwhelming majority of people, only a long-term, committed monogamous relationship can cultivate the kind of absolutely selfless love that makes the Christian approach to sex possible. That doesn't mean that every committed monogamous relationship will contain this kind of love, but it does mean that a committed monogamous relationship is (usually) required as a starting point.

TL;DR - Promiscuity is wrong because sex should always be about making your partner happy, and those who are promiscuous seek to make themselves happy.

What if the sex makes you both happy? I'm not trying to break the PG-13 rules but making sure my partner is happy and enjoying it is a pretty big thing for me.

You'll never be convinced that sexual temptation is wrong because you aren't a Christian.

I once was, it still didn't make sense to me.

[Suominona]

Just this one before bed - after that, good night.

Just 'child', but all right. It's not gays telling themselves 'gay is bad', you know. So yes, you made shit up instead of reading what I said after which you read what I said and stated the most obvious thing to me. Even then you fucked up, seeing as you stated something again what I didn't say.

So again, you felt the need to make me relevant and thus made me more relevant on your quest for da troof. Maybe drop the whining about me becoming relevant? Actually don't, because it's funny.

Did I say gay marriage was theologically correct or did I say that it wasn't theologically incorrect? I'll spare your time to search for that comment and reveal that I said neither. I said that proponents of queer theology on this forum have really sound arguments. I wonder if they're still here?

How would you know if you haven't tried it? That question was rhetorical, by the way. You don't know. You're just appealing to emotion. Thus, your argument is crap! See what I did there? I can do that too!

"W- w- won't somebody think of the children?" is your argument. There is nothing I can really "make up" when you're saying it yourself, you know?
But feel free to show me where exactly I "strawmanned" you.

You know that it's my "anger" at the fact that civil marriage was "taking over" religious one, a claim whose stupidity I joked about since I live in the country where civil unions were invented, which was supposed to make you relevant; not just me responding to you and even less the legitimate laughter you're getting of me with your pitiful attempts of being spiritual.
Anyway, when you say shit; I correct you. Don't feel that you're somewhat important nor "relevant" because of it. It's simply what most people here does.

You know that it's not because something isn't totally theologically incorrect that it's actually theologically ok or just simply right? It's only because of the existence of one of those "technically not theologically incorrect" thing that your borderline heretical church even exist in the first place.
Anyway, don't wait for others people to support your own claims. Do it yourself or drop them.

You tried too do it indeed. And failed awfully and utterly at it.
I never ate shit yet I know it'll be disgusting. There are some occasions where the adage "Can't tell if it's bad or not before you taste it" is just bullshit and bedding your kin is one of those.

My argument for... what, exactly? You call it an argument for something, thinking I advocate something. All it was was me stating facts. The church corrupts the minors it comes in contact with. Corrupts, as in, manipulates, or brainwashes, or convinces, depending on how much of a euphemism or dysphemism you want to use for it.

Have you assumed the whole time that I thought it was making me important? A post count on a more or less obscure website with a nation simulation and RP and discussion forums?

So you admit it's not theologically incorrect, then lament on it not being theologically incorrect and then you break into tears calling Lutherans 'borderline heretics'. And no, I'm not dropping those claims, now that you yourself admitted in favor to them.

Again, you don't know. You know coprophagia is unhealthy and unhygienic, but that isn't what you're talking about. You're talking about 'grossness' and then relate it to incest on the basis on the emotional claim you just made. Ergo, false comparison. Thus, your argument is shit again.

[Grand Calvert]

And finally, one last point before I sign off: The conversation about STDs is misguided. Sexual promiscuity is not wrong because it might give you STDs. That's just a potential side effect.

Sexual promiscuity is wrong because it injures your soul by promoting selfishness. As Christians, we are called to love our neighbors as ourselves, to erase the mental distinction between us and others, to empty ourselves of concerns for the self. We must strive to not even think of ourselves at all. To always think of others. To allow the concern for others to fill our minds and souls completely. Living in communion. That is the Way. Few attain it, but all should strive towards it.

Sexual promiscuity makes it impossible to follow the Way, because one who is promiscuous uses sex for individual gratification. Promiscuity makes sex about me and my desires, when it should always be about my partner. Ideally, it should be entirely about my partner, and not at all about myself. The proper Christian attitude to sex is to use it as an expression of selfless love. To give pleasure to another, whom you love. Of course, it's fine to also receive pleasure from them, but one should never seek it. Sexual pleasure should be seen as a gift. It's nice to receive gifts, but we don't go around asking people, "so, I want a gift right now, can I have one?"

And for the vast, overwhelming majority of people, only a long-term, committed monogamous relationship can cultivate the kind of absolutely selfless love that makes the Christian approach to sex possible. That doesn't mean that every committed monogamous relationship will contain this kind of love, but it does mean that a committed monogamous relationship is (usually) required as a starting point.

TL;DR - Promiscuity is wrong because sex should always be about making your partner happy, and those who are promiscuous seek to make themselves happy.

What if the sex makes you both happy? I'm not trying to break the PG-13 rules but making sure my partner is happy and enjoying it is a pretty big thing for me.

You'll never be convinced that sexual temptation is wrong because you aren't a Christian.

I once was, it still didn't make sense to me.

Then you must have never read what Jesus said Matthew 5:28-"But I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lustful intent has already committed adultery with her in his heart."

[Kannap]

What if the sex makes you both happy? I'm not trying to break the PG-13 rules but making sure my partner is happy and enjoying it is a pretty big thing for me.



I once was, it still didn't make sense to me.

Then you must have never read what Jesus said Matthew 5:28-"But I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lustful intent has already committed adultery with her in his heart."

Shame I looked at my girlfriend with lustful intent, shame one day I will look at my wife with lustful intent.

[Washington Resistance Army]

What if the sex makes you both happy? I'm not trying to break the PG-13 rules but making sure my partner is happy and enjoying it is a pretty big thing for me.



I once was, it still didn't make sense to me.

Then you must have never read what Jesus said Matthew 5:28-"But I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lustful intent has already committed adultery with her in his heart."

No I've read it, multiple times. But no matter what I was never able to actually wrap my mind around why these things are wrong beyond arbitrary reasons that didn't make much sense to me. Which ended up being one of the major reasons why I left the religion.

[Grand Calvert]

Then you must have never read what Jesus said Matthew 5:28-"But I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lustful intent has already committed adultery with her in his heart."

Shame I looked at my girlfriend with lustful intent, shame one day I will look at my wife with lustful intent.

Do you even care about what Jesus said?

[Kannap]

Shame I looked at my girlfriend with lustful intent, shame one day I will look at my wife with lustful intent.

Do you even care about what Jesus said?

According to you, me nor anybody in my denomination does.

[Grand Calvert]

Then you must have never read what Jesus said Matthew 5:28-"But I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lustful intent has already committed adultery with her in his heart."

No I've read it, multiple times. But no matter what I was never able to actually wrap my mind around why these things are wrong beyond arbitrary reasons that didn't make much sense to me. Which ended up being one of the major reasons why I left the religion.

Ultimately humans are created for God's glory and pleasure, and so when we seek to pleasure ourselves over Him who created us, we are acting sinfully. We are putting ourselves above our Creator, which He takes as an insult (and it is).

[Conserative Morality]

Sexual promiscuity makes it impossible to follow the Way, because one who is promiscuous uses sex for individual gratification.

Rather narrow perception of sexuality in the modern day, lad.

[Setgavarius]

And finally, one last point before I sign off: The conversation about STDs is misguided. Sexual promiscuity is not wrong because it might give you STDs. That's just a potential side effect.

Sexual promiscuity is wrong because it injures your soul by promoting selfishness. As Christians, we are called to love our neighbors as ourselves, to erase the mental distinction between us and others, to empty ourselves of concerns for the self. We must strive to not even think of ourselves at all. To always think of others. To allow the concern for others to fill our minds and souls completely. Living in communion. That is the Way. Few attain it, but all should strive towards it.

Sexual promiscuity makes it impossible to follow the Way, because one who is promiscuous uses sex for individual gratification. Promiscuity makes sex about me and my desires, when it should always be about my partner. Ideally, it should be entirely about my partner, and not at all about myself. The proper Christian attitude to sex is to use it as an expression of selfless love. To give pleasure to another, whom you love. Of course, it's fine to also receive pleasure from them, but one should never seek it. Sexual pleasure should be seen as a gift. It's nice to receive gifts, but we don't go around asking people, "so, I want a gift right now, can I have one?"

And for the vast, overwhelming majority of people, only a long-term, committed monogamous relationship can cultivate the kind of absolutely selfless love that makes the Christian approach to sex possible. That doesn't mean that every committed monogamous relationship will contain this kind of love, but it does mean that a committed monogamous relationship is (usually) required as a starting point.

TL;DR - Promiscuity is wrong because sex should always be about making your partner happy, and those who are promiscuous seek to make themselves happy.

This is a very...well, I felt awed at this post. It's magnificent.
I can see how promiscuity is bad- "players" tend to leave a string of broken hearts in their wakes regardless of gender. The message of selflessly giving to a partner, and to others, appeals to me somewhat.
I will be posting this in the Awesome Quotes thread.

[Grand Calvert]

Do you even care about what Jesus said?

According to you, me nor anybody in my denomination does.

Your comment about your girlfriend shows me that you appear to take Jesus's words lightly.

[Conserative Morality]

Ultimately humans are created for God's glory and pleasure, and so when we seek to pleasure ourselves over Him who created us, we are acting sinfully. We are putting ourselves above our Creator, which He takes as an insult (and it is).

Of course. God can be selfish, but humanity can't, because God is powerful and we are not. The mantra of every tin-pot tyrant.

[Kannap]

No I've read it, multiple times. But no matter what I was never able to actually wrap my mind around why these things are wrong beyond arbitrary reasons that didn't make much sense to me. Which ended up being one of the major reasons why I left the religion.

Ultimately humans are created for God's glory and pleasure, and so when we seek to pleasure ourselves over Him who created us, we are acting sinfully. We are putting ourselves above our Creator, which He takes as an insult (and it is).

Ah, so following God's plan for the family and having a wife and kids makes him mad because I'm having sex to do so. Understandable why Washington was confused by it all and left the religious world behind him.

[The Flutterlands]

Ultimately humans are created for God's glory and pleasure, and so when we seek to pleasure ourselves over Him who created us, we are acting sinfully. We are putting ourselves above our Creator, which He takes as an insult (and it is).

Of course. God can be selfish, but humanity can't, because God is powerful and we are not. The mantra of every tin-pot tyrant.

Might makes right.

[Washington Resistance Army]

No I've read it, multiple times. But no matter what I was never able to actually wrap my mind around why these things are wrong beyond arbitrary reasons that didn't make much sense to me. Which ended up being one of the major reasons why I left the religion.

Ultimately humans are created for God's glory and pleasure, and so when we seek to pleasure ourselves over Him who created us, we are acting sinfully. We are putting ourselves above our Creator, which He takes as an insult (and it is).

So we shouldn't do it because God's an egotistical ass, one of the other reasons I left the religion. The entire idea behind sin became laughable to me because of how stupid it is.

Either way, if you read this later Const I'd be really interested in your response to my previous reply to you.

[Kannap]

According to you, me nor anybody in my denomination does.

Your comment about your girlfriend shows me that you appear to take Jesus's words lightly.

Wow, having a girlfriend and thinking of her being the person you'll marry and have kids with is a show of taking Jesus' word lightly now?

Grand, better not ever think about getting married or having kids again.

[Grand Calvert]

Ultimately humans are created for God's glory and pleasure, and so when we seek to pleasure ourselves over Him who created us, we are acting sinfully. We are putting ourselves above our Creator, which He takes as an insult (and it is).

Of course. God can be selfish, but humanity can't, because God is powerful and we are not. The mantra of every tin-pot tyrant.

God deserves the glory because He created us, and the air we breath and food we eat that maintains our lives. He deserves our praise. Humans who are selfish do not deserve the glory because all of their achievements were accomplished with something that they would not have without God.

[Grand Calvert]

Your comment about your girlfriend shows me that you appear to take Jesus's words lightly.

Wow, having a girlfriend and thinking of her being the person you'll marry and have kids with is a show of taking Jesus' word lightly now?

Grand, better not ever think about getting married or having kids again.

Wait...are you a girl or a boy?

[Kannap]

Wow, having a girlfriend and thinking of her being the person you'll marry and have kids with is a show of taking Jesus' word lightly now?

Grand, better not ever think about getting married or having kids again.

Wait...are you a girl or a boy?

Remember back to your freshman year health class, which couple has sex and produces a baby thus so?