Military Ground Vehicles of Your Nation [NO FUN] Mark IX

[Krasny-Volny]

Dual-turret MTLB? Dual turret MTLB

Absorbed in tracking his target, Gunner Tom inadvertently swings the barrel of his KPTV towards the second turret and keeps firing, shredding it and Gunner Dick completely.

[Fordorsia]

Dual-turret MTLB? Dual turret MTLB

Absorbed in tracking his target, Gunner Tom inadvertently swings the barrel of his KPTV towards the second turret and keeps firing, shredding it and Gunner Dick completely.

Gunner Dick was clearly a spy

[Allanea]

Has this actually ever happened? I suspect not.

[Purpelia]

Dual-turret MTLB? Dual turret MTLB

Absorbed in tracking his target, Gunner Tom inadvertently swings the barrel of his KPTV towards the second turret and keeps firing, shredding it and Gunner Dick completely.

That only happens with western capitalists like Tom and Dick. Real Soviet communists newer make such mistakes.

[Allanea]

There are serious problems with dual-turret vehicles.

"Lololol gunners are dumb and will shoot each other" is not one of these serious problems.

[Purpelia]

There are serious problems with dual-turret vehicles.

"Lololol gunners are dumb and will shoot each other" is not one of these serious problems.

That's what I said. I just worded it as a snide remark as opposed to an intellectual comment in order to exploit the opportunity to poke fun at capitalists.

[Ardavia]

pew pew vroom vroom

[Purpelia]

pew pew vroom vroom

I love it. It's positively cute.

[Krasny-Volny]

There are serious problems with dual-turret vehicles.

"Lololol gunners are dumb and will shoot each other" is not one of these serious problems.

Gee that wasn't the way I meant to come across, sorry.

I was just using a humorous analogy to illustrate how the trajectory of the second turret would be negatively affected by the position of the first.

[Fordorsia]

pew pew vroom vroom

I love it. It's positively cute.

You mean sexy as fuck

[Freihafen]

Does anyone have knowledge of applications (or studies into thereof) of the hydragas suspension in heavy vehicles? The only application I have been able to find is the HEMTT A3 which weighs in at 13 tons. I'm actually considering utilising it in AFVs up to MBTs in the 60 ton weight range. Compared to the hydropneumatic suspension, hydragas is simpler (and thus cheaper to produce and easier to maintain) at the cost of somewhat poorer ride quality (but still superior to spring suspensions) and not being able to adjust ride height.

[The Kievan People]

Does anyone have knowledge of applications (or studies into thereof) of the hydragas suspension in heavy vehicles? The only application I have been able to find is the HEMTT A3 which weighs in at 13 tons. I'm actually considering utilising it in AFVs up to MBTs in the 60 ton weight range. Compared to the hydropneumatic suspension, hydragas is simpler (and thus cheaper to produce and easier to maintain) at the cost of somewhat poorer ride quality (but still superior to spring suspensions) and not being able to adjust ride height.

Hydragas is just a brand name for a kind of hydropneumatic suspension.

[Immoren]

Muh 1945 BMP wip

Engines, you shitter.
Do you use them?

[Fordorsia]

Pretty much

[Schwere Panzer Abieltung 502]

How come no AFVs outside of self-propelled artillery use low-velocity howitzers anymore? Like the short 75mm gun on the early Pz III and IV, Sherman's 75mm or 105mm, etc.

I'm guessing the answer is because those guns aren't as effective against other tanks, but if that's the case, why did those tanks have them in the first place? Would the PaK 40 be not as good against non-tank targets?

[Imperializt Russia]

Guns that are arguably comparable to early LV howitzers are still in use - 90mm and 75/76mm LV guns are widely used by British and dominion forces, the Russians used 76mm and 100mm gun launchers, the US dabbled in the 152mm gun launcher programme for Sherridan and MBT-70.

I suppose the main reason LV howitzers are no longer used is partly because LV howitzers don't really exist anymore, certainly not in the gun calibres one would be likely to find in an AFV. When you were talking stuff like 30, 40 calibre 75mm guns, these were lightweight (relatively) LV guns with small ammunition (relatively). They were intended to be used at very close ranges, primarily against fortifications rather than tanks. Once tanks became recognised as a high-value target and tank battles became a thing, armour increased and the guns had to become much more HV to deal with this.

[Gallia-]

the "short 75mm" on M4 was a very capable anti tank gun

[Schwere Panzer Abieltung 502]

Guns that are arguably comparable to early LV howitzers are still in use - 90mm and 75/76mm LV guns are widely used by British and dominion forces, the Russians used 76mm and 100mm gun launchers, the US dabbled in the 152mm gun launcher programme for Sherridan and MBT-70.

I suppose the main reason LV howitzers are no longer used is partly because LV howitzers don't really exist anymore, certainly not in the gun calibres one would be likely to find in an AFV. When you were talking stuff like 30, 40 calibre 75mm guns, these were lightweight (relatively) LV guns with small ammunition (relatively). They were intended to be used at very close ranges, primarily against fortifications rather than tanks. Once tanks became recognised as a high-value target and tank battles became a thing, armour increased and the guns had to become much more HV to deal with this.

So it's mostly a case of prewar technology being still in use while doctrine is being rewritten?

the "short 75mm" on M4 was a very capable anti tank gun

It was capable of killing the Pz IV at normal combat ranges, but from early on the people who designed it were experimenting on how to upgun the Sherman. In the articles I've read on the subject(most written by Nick Moran), the consensus seems to be in that there was not enough urgency to upgun the Sherman; only a few Tigers had been encountered in Africa, so while the 75mm struggled to kill it, that didn't really matter as Tigers were few and far between. The AGF knew about the Panther, but severely underestimated how many Panthers would be encountered, so the 76mm development did not have any urgency. Then D-Day happened, and lots of Panthers started appearing, and the 76mm Sherman began being fielded as quickly as possible.

Not that it matters, though - by D-Day, most of the panzer divisions were severely understrength and fuel supplies were so low that the replacements couldn't train despite having plenty of time. Not having had the 76mm gun on the Sherman probably wouldn't have changed much.

[Immoren]

How come no AFVs outside of self-propelled artillery use low-velocity howitzers anymore? Like the short 75mm gun on the early Pz III and IV, Sherman's 75mm or 105mm, etc.

I'm guessing the answer is because those guns aren't as effective against other tanks, but if that's the case, why did those tanks have them in the first place? Would the PaK 40 be not as good against non-tank targets?

High velocity shells of yore would dig themselves deeper into ground before exploding, compared to high velocity shells of today. Or at least reason I remember reading that due to primitive fusing tech of early days led to the either or optimization.
Might be of.f

[Schwere Panzer Abieltung 502]

How come no AFVs outside of self-propelled artillery use low-velocity howitzers anymore? Like the short 75mm gun on the early Pz III and IV, Sherman's 75mm or 105mm, etc.

I'm guessing the answer is because those guns aren't as effective against other tanks, but if that's the case, why did those tanks have them in the first place? Would the PaK 40 be not as good against non-tank targets?

High velocity shells of yore would dig themselves deeper into ground before exploding, compared to high velocity shells of today. Or at least reason I remember reading that due to primitive fusing tech of early days led to the either or optimization.
Might be of.f

Did it also have anything to do with how the shell is built? Would the walls of a high velocity shell have to be thicker(and therefore with less HE filler) to withstand higher pressures and acceleration?

[Imperializt Russia]

Depends on whether you want a "HE shell" or an APHE shell. APHE, by the virtue of being AP, had very little filler. It wouldn't penetrate otherwise.
HE shells typically had 7% filler by weight and later increased to 15% by weight. Arguments can be made that 7% filler is better in some circumstances, since it generates a much greater proportion of high-mass fragments that can penetrate armour, at the expense of less fragments overall and possibly less lethal radius.

[Gallia-]

It was capable of killing the Pz IV at normal combat ranges, but from early on the people who designed it were experimenting on how to upgun the Sherman. In the articles I've read on the subject(most written by Nick Moran), the consensus seems to be in that there was not enough urgency to upgun the Sherman; only a few Tigers had been encountered in Africa, so while the 75mm struggled to kill it, that didn't really matter as Tigers were few and far between. The AGF knew about the Panther, but severely underestimated how many Panthers would be encountered, so the 76mm development did not have any urgency. Then D-Day happened, and lots of Panthers started appearing, and the 76mm Sherman began being fielded as quickly as possible.

Not that it matters, though - by D-Day, most of the panzer divisions were severely understrength and fuel supplies were so low that the replacements couldn't train despite having plenty of time. Not having had the 76mm gun on the Sherman probably wouldn't have changed much.

panzer iv was literally almost every german tank

75mm was sufficient to deal with tiger i it was fine

shermans did 1.1:1 against panther in ardennes the last (first?) major armour offensive in the west anyway nbd

[Purpelia]

Speaking of tank shells I finally figured out what I must have based my long 123mm back in the day when I drew it up years ago. The thing is basically the same length as a Soviet 125mm shell when combined fully (since it's two piece) and than rounded up. In light of this I have decided to put the three together in a lineup that's to scale for comparison. I need your opinions on it as presented.

Large image

PS. Since my tank is already designed around these shells I am unlikely to be changing their length. But i can refluff them to be a brand new 13cm gun if you guys feel that they are too big for a 12.3cm gun. I've had half a mind to do that anyway when this project started.

PPS. Yes, I know that the penetrator is a crappy photoshop of the american one stuck on a plain gray case with no bevel or anything. But like it's a reference image not a work of art. It's ok for it to look fugly.

[Anemos Major]

oh look, a new thread

E: Hopefully I'll have more lineart done soonish. Unfortunately my relevant folder was corrupted in a nasty computer foul-up and my last backup is several years old, so I've found myself working with a surprising paucity of material. The optimistic amongst you will take this as a chance for me to come up with refreshing new stuff, but, well...

[Gallia-]

are we posting tank-kuns?