We Do Not Come in Peace [Closed][OOC/Planning]

[Aeiouia]

The international response seems somewhat out of proportion (especially since we aren't even slavers anymore), but WWI was started because an Austrio-Hungarian man was assassinated, so...

We are entering this because we have heavy suspicions that you are indeed enacting slave labour again, despite the fact that it is now against WA law. That is the purpose for our investigations beforehand, we are trying to confirm our deny our suspicions.

[The Second Brotherhood of Planets]

In Estruia's defense, part of our "alliance" involves containing a third party that regularly fields large numbers of ships that are hundreds of miles long. One needs a sizable stick to bat away hundreds of those things.

Or you can just field one thousand 4 kilometer ships for the price of one USS literally Iowa. And I bet the one thousand 4 kilometer ships could wreck the one several hundred kilometer long vessel any day of the week.

Yes. You have accurately described the Brotherhood's design philosophy, but our opponent was not rational at all.

[Allanea]

I have little doubt that a 400-kilometer vessel is better combat-wise than 100 4-km vessels.

But it would be far more expensive and complex to build.

[Tinfect]

That was my initial response to the individual that the Bros mentioned. However, we found out rather quickly that such a tactic was pointless, when you were dealing with someone who was fielding hundreds, if not thousands of ships that were twice the size of the Hyacinth-class Battlecruiser. Yes, we were and are not dealing with someone who has placed their faith in scientific realism.

As I said in our TG, I can come up with alternatives if need be.

I'll admit, you have somewhat decent reasons to have such vessels, but, yeah, something smaller would probably be appropriate.

I feel like the scale of the response to this incident is out of proportion. The combined value of the ships that are going to be lost here will probably exceed the GDP of the planet they're fighting over, while the stray fire will cook whatever natives are left over anyway. We've gone beyond 'send some chaps to slap those slavers about a bit' into 'basically a full blown war.' I'd suggest that perhaps 'contributions' be limited to something more on scale with a conflict between corporate mercenaries and government enforcement agencies, rather than full-blown military responses to what is, ultimately, a very minor incident in a galaxy full of lovecraftian terrors that eat more populous planets than this on a daily, if not hourly, basis.

First of all, the Imperium has no economic interest in the planet. If we manage to win the conflict, Saar plans to turn it into an Imperial Protectorate, and we don't use Colonized Planets for Industrial purposes. Second, if anyone starts firing on the Planets surface, Saar is turning the Imperial Fleet on them, as he intends to preserve as much of the Environment and existing infrastructure as possible, but, unless you have a habit to take potshots at far away vessels with slow-moving projectiles, the Planet will be largely unaffected by any conflict in Space.

As for justification, this is not an officially sanctioned action. Overseer Markhov opposed it, and Steiner was all for it, as he doesn't agree with Markhov's plan to extend an Alliance to Excidium Planetis. That, combined with the fact that the Grand Praetor didn't care either way, and refused to overrule the decision, means that Saar is leading a volunteer force to beat the shit out of (Former) Slavers and Corporate Mercenaries.

[Singaporean Transhumans]

i have a worry that the sheer amount of people participating is going to lead to this being abandoned after a small period of excitement

[The Second Brotherhood of Planets]

i have a worry that the sheer amount of people participating is going to lead to this being abandoned after a small period of excitement

Meh. Then let's enjoy it while it lasts.

[Tinfect]

i have a worry that the sheer amount of people participating is going to lead to this being abandoned after a small period of excitement

Maybe.
I don't quite think it will come to that in full, worst case scenario in my eyes, half the factions drop out and we just have to have them go back home or something.

[Excidium Planetis]

I have little doubt that a 400-kilometer vessel is better combat-wise than 100 4-km vessels.

But it would be far more expensive and complex to build.

I do doubt it. The hundred 4 kilometer vessels only need hit the 400 kilometer vessel once, theoretically. The 400 kilometer vessel needs to hit at least 100 times.

As for justification, this is not an officially sanctioned action. Overseer Markhov opposed it, and Steiner was all for it, as he doesn't agree with Markhov's plan to extend an Alliance to Excidium Planetis. That, combined with the fact that the Grand Praetor didn't care either way, and refused to overrule the decision, means that Saar is leading a volunteer force to beat the shit out of (Former) Slavers and Corporate Mercenaries.

Wut?

[Allanea]

I do doubt it. The hundred 4 kilometer vessels only need hit the 400 kilometer vessel once, theoretically. The 400 kilometer vessel needs to hit at least 100 times.

The problem is, the 400-km ship (assuming equivalent tech levels) will be able to dedicate more of its internal volume to engine power, which means it will have more power to its shields and weapons. It will thus be more heavily shielded than the 4-km ships, and will have more firepower.

[Excidium Planetis]

I do doubt it. The hundred 4 kilometer vessels only need hit the 400 kilometer vessel once, theoretically. The 400 kilometer vessel needs to hit at least 100 times.

The problem is, the 400-km ship (assuming equivalent tech levels) will be able to dedicate more of its internal volume to engine power, which means it will have more power to its shields and weapons. It will thus be more heavily shielded than the 4-km ships, and will have more firepower.

1. In a scientifically realistic scenario, there would be no shielding that could protect the 400 kilometer ship significantly more effectively than it could a 4 kilometer ship.
2. If we are throwing science out the window completely, then we can easily resort to using weapons which bypass the shields (FTL missiles, or teleporting bombs, anyone?), or a power source from outside of the ship (I once read a sci Fi novel where dark energy throughout the universe powered exotic alien tech), or shielding which requires no energy to maintain (magic?), and then the 400 kilometer ship loses any advantage it has by being larger.
3. If you consider that techwank, so is a 400 kilometer ship.

[Allanea]

2. If we are throwing science out the window completely, then we can easily resort to using weapons which bypass the shields (FTL missiles, or teleporting bombs, anyone?), or a power source from outside of the ship (I once read a sci Fi novel where dark energy throughout the universe powered exotic alien tech), or shielding which requires no energy to maintain (magic?), and then the 400 kilometer ship loses any advantage it has by being larger.

Assuming everything equal, there's still the advantage of being able to store lots of shit on board your ship.

There's no real argument against a 400-km ship and in favor of a 4-km ship, that cannot equally be applied to say 4-km ship is too large, and should be replaced by 400-m ships.

[Excidium Planetis]

2. If we are throwing science out the window completely, then we can easily resort to using weapons which bypass the shields (FTL missiles, or teleporting bombs, anyone?), or a power source from outside of the ship (I once read a sci Fi novel where dark energy throughout the universe powered exotic alien tech), or shielding which requires no energy to maintain (magic?), and then the 400 kilometer ship loses any advantage it has by being larger.

Assuming everything equal, there's still the advantage of being able to store lots of shit on board your ship.

There's no real argument against a 400-km ship and in favor of a 4-km ship, that cannot equally be applied to say 4-km ship is too large, and should be replaced by 400-m ships.

You mean the s*** that's going to get blown up?

And yes, there is, at least in my canon. 400 meter ships can't house the particle accelerators needed for antiprotons cannons, so we'd be down some serious firepower by throwing out our 1200 meter ships in favor of three 400 meter ships. But, please, enlighten me as to what weapon is so big it needs a 440 kilometer vessel?
And if you have the tech for it, always make ships smaller. If I was an FFT nation with the tech of Aeiouia, I'd utilize only 50 meter starfighters.

[The Second Brotherhood of Planets]

And if you have the tech for it, always make ships smaller. If I was an FFT nation with the tech of Aeiouia, I'd utilize only 50 meter starfighters.

And ignore intimidation factor / rule of cool? Naw.

[Excidium Planetis]

And if you have the tech for it, always make ships smaller. If I was an FFT nation with the tech of Aeiouia, I'd utilize only 50 meter starfighters.

And ignore intimidation factor / rule of cool? Naw.

Aeiouia rams starships with their fighters... Tell me that isn't rule of cool.

Also, capital-ship destroying ace starfighters busting into your hangar and blowing your carrier up from the inside is totally intimidating.

[Allanea]

And yes, there is, at least in my canon. 400 meter ships can't house the particle accelerators needed for antiprotons cannons, so we'd be down some serious firepower by throwing out our 1200 meter ships in favor of three 400 meter ships. But, please, enlighten me as to what weapon is so big it needs a 440 kilometer vessel?

If the energy source for your ship is located inside your ship, then the larger the ship is, the more energy you can generate. So the answer to "What weapon is so big" is, of course, "a bigger one."

[Allanea]

Anyway, let us move on to fighting.

[The Second Brotherhood of Planets]

And ignore intimidation factor / rule of cool? Naw.

Aeiouia rams starships with their fighters... Tell me that isn't rule of cool.

Also, capital-ship destroying ace starfighters busting into your hangar and blowing your carrier up from the inside is totally intimidating.

Ok, granted. But another point: virtually endless planetary bombardment.

A fighter simply does not have the carrying capacity to pummel a target indefinitely. A swarm of fighters, sure, but they will need to withdraw to rearm and refuel. But then again you're referring to FFT tech which can seem limitless.

Furthermore, troop carriers aren't that effective when they're smaller than a 747 right? I mean it's less practical than building larger, freighter-like ships that can carry legions of men and material. As a FT-at-least nation, one has the technology to develop behemoths. One's engines and thrusters are theoretically quite fast. Why not?

[Excidium Planetis]

If the energy source for your ship is located inside your ship, then the larger the ship is, the more energy you can generate. So the answer to "What weapon is so big" is, of course, "a bigger one."

Once again, we can have outside energy sources, weapons that require no energy, and weapons that simply aren't more effective the larger they are (black hole guns, anyone?).

Plus, what do you really need a bigger weapon for if you can outfit your 4 kilometer ships with weapons capable of destroying vessels a hundred times their size? Do you really need the capability to destroy 40,000 kilometer vessels? Hell, Tinfect utilizes Planetcrackers, which are only like 2 kilometers long and can literally destroy ships the size of small planets. Why would you ever need a bigger gun?

Anyways, I feel this is getting threadjacked. It has already been apparently settled that 440 kilometer ships are out, and we haven't quite decided whether Aeiouia's 80 kilometer vessel stays or not.

And I still haven't even started the OP.

[Excidium Planetis]

Aeiouia rams starships with their fighters... Tell me that isn't rule of cool.

Also, capital-ship destroying ace starfighters busting into your hangar and blowing your carrier up from the inside is totally intimidating.

A fighter simply does not have the carrying capacity to pummel a target indefinitely. A swarm of fighters, sure, but they will need to withdraw to rearm and refuel. But then again you're referring to FFT tech which can seem limitless.

Furthermore, troop carriers aren't that effective when they're smaller than a 747 right? I mean it's less practical than building larger, freighter-like ships that can carry legions of men and material. As a FT-at-least nation, one has the technology to develop behemoths. One's engines and thrusters are theoretically quite fast. Why not?

For the first issue (reloading), Aeiouia's starfighters have instantaneous FTL, so going back to reload is no problem.

For the issue of troop transports, why bother when you can launch starfighter strikes on the enemy until they surrender?

Of course, if we are talking FT and not FFT, then I'd go with a model I have now: 1-3 kilometer vessels backed up by tons of smaller craft.

[The Second Brotherhood of Planets]

If the energy source for your ship is located inside your ship, then the larger the ship is, the more energy you can generate. So the answer to "What weapon is so big" is, of course, "a bigger one."

Once again, we can have outside energy sources, weapons that require no energy, and weapons that simply aren't more effective the larger they are (black hole guns, anyone?).

Plus, what do you really need a bigger weapon for if you can outfit your 4 kilometer ships with weapons capable of destroying vessels a hundred times their size? Do you really need the capability to destroy 40,000 kilometer vessels? Hell, Tinfect utilizes Planetcrackers, which are only like 2 kilometers long and can literally destroy ships the size of small planets. Why would you ever need a bigger gun?

Anyways, I feel this is getting threadjacked. It has already been apparently settled that 440 kilometer ships are out, and we haven't quite decided whether Aeiouia's 80 kilometer vessel stays or not.

And I still haven't even started the OP.

ONE MORE THING

Answer: Ignoring Damage / the whims of the "Dungeon Master Equivalent" or "Other Player."

No seriously. We have a superlaser for perfectly legitimate purposes that's designed to melt a terrestrial planet's crust. We consider that to be sufficient and horrifying enough. When used on an enemy starship that was 100 miles long, it barely melted 5% of its surface. It was a direct hit. The other party simply ignored descriptions of the weapon.

That is why we fight... With oversized armaments.

[Tinfect]

As for justification, this is not an officially sanctioned action. Overseer Markhov opposed it, and Steiner was all for it, as he doesn't agree with Markhov's plan to extend an Alliance to Excidium Planetis. That, combined with the fact that the Grand Praetor didn't care either way, and refused to overrule the decision, means that Saar is leading a volunteer force to beat the shit out of (Former) Slavers and Corporate Mercenaries.

Wut?

I think I've mentioned this before, but the Imperium rather needs Allies. And yours is a Nation we've had extended contact with, doesn't hate us, and doesn't totally outclass us Militarily. All good things from the standpoint of the Imperium.

On the other hand, Steiner doesn't really care for it, and would prefer that the Imperium went back to complete isolationism, and Saar thinks you're a bunch of Slavers and not worthy of any respect or consideration.

Assuming everything equal, there's still the advantage of being able to store lots of shit on board your ship.

There's no real argument against a 400-km ship and in favor of a 4-km ship, that cannot equally be applied to say 4-km ship is too large, and should be replaced by 400-m ships.

Coming from a general Science Fiction standpoint, it can generally be assumed that the larger the vessel is, the more advanced technology was used to construct it. Obviously, this doesn't quite hold up in all situations, like the Reckoner. However, if the Imperium had no clue what the Reckoner was, and we came across it, we'd start throwing Planetcrackers at it like no tomorrow. 7000 Kilometers of Ship is serious business.

Now, as for your statements, actually there are quite a few problems with a ship of that size.
For one, Logistics. Its a bit late to write a detailed bit on it, but, just read the tale of the SDSD Freudian Nightmare.

On another note, the larger a ship is, the larger of a target it is. A group of 2 Kilometer Battleships will get a response in kind.
A 200 Kilometer Battleship is going to get Superweapons firing at it.

Answer: Ignoring Damage / the whims of the "Dungeon Master Equivalent" or "Other Player."

That's grounds to deploy the Ignore Cannon, in my book. If they're going to Godmod, they don't need to be involved.

No seriously. We have a superlaser for perfectly legitimate purposes that's designed to melt a terrestrial planet's crust. We consider that to be sufficient and horrifying enough.

... We use those as standard Planetary Bombardment Equipment. Very good at pinpointing Military Positions with little collateral damage.

When used on an enemy starship that was 100 miles long, it barely melted 5% of its surface. It was a direct hit. The other party simply ignored descriptions of the weapon.

Again, the correct response here is the deployment of an Ignore Cannon. If they're just going to go absolutely crazy and start ignoring things, ignore them right back.

But uh, Yeah.

/threadjack

Let's wait for the promised Map and IC thread to be up.

[Singaporean Transhumans]

EP, can there be a group of Birrin, first purchased from G&G by the PTFS, enlightened and coming back to liberate their brothers and sisters? They'll be on the anti-imperialist coalition for the period.

edit: if approved, check volunteer guard factbook for orbat. This is only the maximum size so far; I can reduce it to a mere corps if wished. Though, they'll have to have some sort of operation across the planet, so yeah.

96,100 more sentients added to the list of things stopping Exc having a steamroll.

[Excidium Planetis]

EP, can there be a group of Birrin, first purchased from G&G by the PTFS, enlightened and coming back to liberate their brothers and sisters? They'll be on the anti-imperialist coalition for the period.

edit: if approved, check volunteer guard factbook for orbat. This is only the maximum size so far; I can reduce it to a mere corps if wished. Though, they'll have to have some sort of operation across the planet, so yeah.

96,100 more sentients added to the list of things stopping Exc having a steamroll.

Sure... According to Gizmos and Gadgets, you have exactly 100 Birrin ex-slaves, 50 male and 50 female.

[Excidium Planetis]

Alright, Map is ~50% done. In the mean time, here are the major locations to be found:

Space
The space around Chri-irah is filled with thousands of artificial objects. Most of these are ancient satellites and stations built by the Birrin before the Fall of the first Birrin civilization. Since they have been unused, neglected, and bombarded with radiation for 1000 years, they are completely inoperable and generally regarded as historical junk. The modern Birrin nations have put several dozen satellites and two space stations in orbit. The stations were operated by the now defunct Tenzeni government and a joint Kaybor-Kendi team. Now (And I suppose this is Secret in Character) they are operated by the Industrial Coalition.

The rest of the objects in space are Industrial Coalition owned. The most notable is the defense network of 20 Stormwrathian battlestations, and the rest are various civilian and ex-military ships.

The Kiln
The Equatorial region of Chri-irah consists of a massive desert, where ancient buildings from the Pre-Fall Era and modern shelters abound, and where daytime temperatures averaging 80 degrees Celsius ensure nothing survives without refrigeration technology. This wasteland cuts the planet in half, and is responsible for the North-South divide between Birrin Nations.

The Kiln is inhabited by rebels and outlaws, mostly. The Kaybor Kiln Administration controls the Northern half of the Kiln, and the southern half is administrated by various Chey nations.

Seas
The North and South regions of the planet are home to many large inland seas, which host most of the planet's life. They are also the main mode of transportation between Birrin nations.

Float Forest
Massive mats of vegetation on the Seas provide shelter for life and function as floating islands. The Float Forests are home to most of the Birrin, who dwell in cities built upon these living platforms. The nation of Tenzeni, now administrated by the Industrial Coalition, consists of several Float Forests on the largest southern sea. The Southern Chey nations also host many Float Forest territories, and in the northern hemisphere Kaybor does as well.

Tropical Plains
Nearby, but just outside of, the scorching Kiln lie many regions of solid land, which are cool enough to allow life to flourish. Some of the Southern Chey nations dwell here, though the Industrial Coalition is moving in.

To the North, Kaybor is home to many plains, and indeed most of their nation is built on solid ground.

Arctic
The pole regions are cold, tundra and ice caps. The Northern nation of Kendi inhabits much of the Northern tundra regions, but the southern pole is desolate wasteland.[/quote]

Pic until I can shrink these images.
Sigma Station
A titanic kilometer-wide space station, it was built by the Birrin in the Pre-Fall Era. Abandoned for a thousand years, it has slowly drifted out of orbit on a slow escape from Chri-irah. Though completely inoperable, the station can make a great base of operations, a hiding place for small ships, or junk to salvage if you care nothing for ancient Birrin history.

Pic
Operations Base Inferno
This base, located in the southern half of the Kiln, was recently constructed by Industrial Coalition forces as a operations center for the campaign against the Southern Chey Confederation. Constant air patrols are launched from the base to protect it from Birrin attack.

pic
Port Victory
Originally named something dumb and difficult to pronounce, Port Victory is the former capital of the southern nation of Tenzeni. After being conquered by Coalition forces, the port city has been turned into the administrative capital of Coalition held Chri-irah. Security is tight, and but civil unrest is surprisingly low... Likely due to the fact that the Coalition insists on keeping many Birrin in prominent positions of power. Nevertheless, a small faction of rebels are willing to fight for freedom from the Excidian invaders.

picture
Kaybor Plains
Just north of the Kiln, these plains of dust and shrubbery are the beginning of Kaybor's sovereign territory. They are also the site of a massive ground war between Kaybor-Kendi forces and the Coalition invasion forces. Kaybor and Kendi air defenses currently prevent a direct attack on Kaybor's capital city, so ground forces have begun the slow advance towards the city.

Picture
Kaybor Gate
An ancient structure set to guard the entrance of a float forest valley, it now stands as a Birrin chokepoint to prevent advancing Coalition forces on the plains from entering the float-forest beyond, which is the site of a major Kaybor city. Modern Birrin air defenses like the top of the massive stone wall, and a complex tunnel network weaves through the ancient passages in the barrier and down into newly carved depths. This has, of course, attracted the anger of Birrin archaeologists, but when you are facing conquest by aliens, archaeology loses some of its importance.

Image
Devon
The Capital city of the nation of Kaybor, it sits on a particularly large mat of vegetation. Well defended by missile systems, aircraft patrols, and a small armada of warships, Devon has thus far been able to resist Coalition forces. Should the bases forming a perimeter around it fall, however, the might of the Industrial Coalition will surely prove too great.

Pic Pic
Kenelliki
The cold capital of the northern nation of Kendi, Kenelliki sits on the highlands of a peninsula far in the north. Kendi, as a neighbor and close ally of Kaybor, has avoided direct ground warfare with the Coalition, and uses its jet aircraft to defend the skies from Excidian starfighters and dropships. None the less, Kendi will be unable to defend its small nation from the Coalition forces should Kaybor fall.

"Picture"
Operations Base Hailstorm
In the frozen wastes of the Chriiran Antarctic, there sits a lonely base built into the Mountains...

Imagio
Southern Chey Refugee Camp
One of many, these camps were started as temporary housing for Birrin displaced by the diversion of rivers to one of the richer Chey nations bordering the Kiln
Now, however, they are used as homes by refugees fleeing the Coalition forces, some from Chey lands and others from Tenzeni. Civil unrest is high, as the Southern Chey Confederation is unwilling to help the refugees beyond quarantining them in these camps. As shown here, Chey law enforcement protects these camps.

[Vilkia]

Those pictures look awesome Excidium Planetis.
If anybody wants to look, I made a factbook for my spaceships.