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Val Halla
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Ex-Nation

Postby Val Halla » Wed Oct 21, 2015 2:48 am

We are all oppressed in some way. But this is how it should be. We can't have 100% freedom, that'd be anarchy. But, the fact is that both binary genders are oppressed and discriminated in ways they shouldn't be.
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Hirota
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Founded: Jan 22, 2004
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Hirota » Wed Oct 21, 2015 2:57 am

I explained to her, but she was something like "well, men lead the society so MRM is BS...
This is fallacious reasoning. It's reasonable to accept that most of the "1%" happen to be men, but just because the 1% happen to be mainly men fails to consider that the vast majority of men are equally disadvantaged as the vast majority of women. It fails to consider that men are more likely to be homeless, for example.

Feminists is like totally needed because women are abused all around the world".
This is also fallacious reasoning. It's true that women are abused globally, but that fails to recognise men are also abused around the world. It also fails to recognise that what may well hold true in disadvantaged areas such as Africa and Asia, does not neccessarily hold true in the west.

New Westin really has the truth of it - western feminists are starting to scrape the bottom of the barrel, and are desperately looking for any excuse (even fabricated lies) to justify their existence as a movement.
Last edited by Hirota on Wed Oct 21, 2015 5:28 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Isn't it curious how people will claim they are against tribalism, then pigeonhole themselves into tribes?

It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.
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Ostroeuropa
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Postby Ostroeuropa » Wed Oct 21, 2015 3:47 am

http://www.bbc.com/news/education-31751672

We have a winner.

Teachers 'give higher marks to girls'

Teachers are more lenient in their marking of girls' schoolwork, according to an international study.
An OECD report on gender in education, across more than 60 countries, found that girls receive higher marks compared with boys of the same ability.
Researchers suggest girls are better behaved in class and this influences how teachers perceive their work.


Better behaved -> Pathologizing males, the women are wonderful effect, and the overwhelming majority of teachers being women.

I.E

"Well, the blacks are just more criminal in nature. Sure, us whites have criminals too, but at least we're fucking civilized about it."
-Purity, the nazi supervillain.
Last edited by Ostroeuropa on Wed Oct 21, 2015 3:49 am, edited 3 times in total.
The feminism that only exists in feminists heads is real, and the feminism that impacts society isn't real.

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Haktiva
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Postby Haktiva » Wed Oct 21, 2015 7:19 am

All around disagreeable person.

"Personal freedom is a double edged sword though. On the one end, it grants more power to the individual. However, the vast majority of individuals are fuckin idiots, and if certain restraints are not metered down by more responsible members of society, the society quickly degrades into a hedonistic and psychotic cluster fuck."

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Hirota
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Founded: Jan 22, 2004
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Hirota » Wed Oct 21, 2015 8:13 am

But women never lie right ?

(In fairness, I think it's fair to say most allegations are not found to be outright fabrications, and of course it horrific for survivors of rape - but apparently pointing out the fact that women do lie occassionally, and it does inevitabily cause some skeptism of genuine allegations makes me a rape apologist according to at least one dribbling lunatic.)
Last edited by Hirota on Wed Oct 21, 2015 8:23 am, edited 1 time in total.
When a wise man points at the moon the imbecile examines the finger - Confucius
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Isn't it curious how people will claim they are against tribalism, then pigeonhole themselves into tribes?

It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.
I use obviously in italics to emphasise the conveying of sarcasm. If I've put excessive obviously's into a post that means I'm being sarcastic

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New Kylifornia
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Founded: Aug 24, 2015
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Postby New Kylifornia » Wed Oct 21, 2015 8:56 am

Ostroeuropa wrote:
New Grestin wrote:I think the problem was that, at least in the Western world, feminism doesn't really have a lot else to fight. Women are pretty damned equal to men in most places and in the places they aren't, that's probably going to change eventually.

But, without a monster to slay, a movement loses steam and dies, and since Feminism can't lose steam, you get the idea that men control everything.

At least, that's the only way I've been able to rationalize it.


It's a totalizing ideology. Symptomatic of religions and cults.

This is why feminists blame things on patriarchy that other feminists have caused. Everything is proof of their delusional worldview.


I'm struck by the similarity between feminism and certain strains of conservative Christianity. Both assume their own oppression as axiomatic, and thus must find evidence of it. Since in reality neither group faces any significant legal or political oppression, they have to work increasingly hard to find examples of oppression or persecution.

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Haktiva
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Postby Haktiva » Wed Oct 21, 2015 11:23 am

Hirota wrote:
But women never lie right ?

(In fairness, I think it's fair to say most allegations are not found to be outright fabrications, and of course it horrific for survivors of rape - but apparently pointing out the fact that women do lie occassionally, and it does inevitabily cause some skeptism of genuine allegations makes me a rape apologist according to at least one dribbling lunatic.)

The way I see it, anyone who submits a false allegation should be as severely punished as the accused would have been. But I doubt that will ever happen.

Also notice that when a male is the perp, even suspected, the tactic is to blast his name and face all over the place, essentially condemning him in the court of public opinion before he's even been allowed to have a trial. However, the supposed victim's identity is totally protected. Yeah, I know backlash happens, but I doubt that's unique to these kinds of cases. The accused needs to be allowed to face their accuser. It's how due process works. You can prevent other people from lashing out at either the plaintiff or defendant by not letting the media or gossips find out, but that will probably never happen.
All around disagreeable person.

"Personal freedom is a double edged sword though. On the one end, it grants more power to the individual. However, the vast majority of individuals are fuckin idiots, and if certain restraints are not metered down by more responsible members of society, the society quickly degrades into a hedonistic and psychotic cluster fuck."

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Ostroeuropa
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Postby Ostroeuropa » Thu Oct 22, 2015 4:39 am

All types of disadvantaged starts harm boys more than girls. Girls have more social mobility than boys as a result.
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/22/upsho ... girls.html
The feminism that only exists in feminists heads is real, and the feminism that impacts society isn't real.

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Valystria
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Founded: Jul 29, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby Valystria » Thu Oct 22, 2015 7:24 pm

New Kylifornia wrote:
Ostroeuropa wrote:
It's a totalizing ideology. Symptomatic of religions and cults.

This is why feminists blame things on patriarchy that other feminists have caused. Everything is proof of their delusional worldview.


I'm struck by the similarity between feminism and certain strains of conservative Christianity.


The amount of overlap between conservative Christianity and feminism is uncanny.

Banning porn? Check.
Banning prostitution? Check.
Enforcing gender roles? Check.
Transphobia? Check.
Rape scaremongering? Check.
Regulating everyone's sex lives? Check.
Looking down on mixing sex and alcohol? Check.
Looking down on casual sex? Check.

So we finally get out of the clutches of Christian legislatures passing moralistic legislation... only to end up with feminist legislatures doing exactly the same things with slightly different reasons for it.

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Ostroeuropa
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Postby Ostroeuropa » Sun Oct 25, 2015 1:30 pm

https://notehub.org/hpp2i

A wonderful booklet containing much of what you need to know to be an MRA.
The feminism that only exists in feminists heads is real, and the feminism that impacts society isn't real.

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Hirota
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Founded: Jan 22, 2004
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Hirota » Mon Oct 26, 2015 7:06 am

Ostroeuropa wrote:https://notehub.org/hpp2i

A wonderful booklet containing much of what you need to know to be an MRA.
Useful resource, I've added that to the first page Links.
When a wise man points at the moon the imbecile examines the finger - Confucius
Known to trigger Grammar Nazis, Spelling Nazis, Actual Nazis, the emotionally stunted and pedants.
Those affected by the views, opinions or general demeanour of this poster should review this puppy picture. Those affected by puppy pictures should consider investing in an isolation tank.

Economic Left/Right: -3.25, Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -5.03
Isn't it curious how people will claim they are against tribalism, then pigeonhole themselves into tribes?

It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.
I use obviously in italics to emphasise the conveying of sarcasm. If I've put excessive obviously's into a post that means I'm being sarcastic

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Nioya
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Founded: Jul 31, 2014
Democratic Socialists

Postby Nioya » Mon Oct 26, 2015 7:25 am

what are some mens right issues i should address in my factbook?
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Haktiva
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Founded: Sep 18, 2010
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Postby Haktiva » Mon Oct 26, 2015 7:56 am

Nioya wrote:what are some mens right issues i should address in my factbook?

first and foremost would be visitation rights, alimony, child support, and domestic violence.
All around disagreeable person.

"Personal freedom is a double edged sword though. On the one end, it grants more power to the individual. However, the vast majority of individuals are fuckin idiots, and if certain restraints are not metered down by more responsible members of society, the society quickly degrades into a hedonistic and psychotic cluster fuck."

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Ostroeuropa
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Founded: Jun 14, 2006
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Postby Ostroeuropa » Mon Oct 26, 2015 9:10 am

Haktiva wrote:
Nioya wrote:what are some mens right issues i should address in my factbook?

first and foremost would be visitation rights, alimony, child support, and domestic violence.


I'd say it actually depends on your priorities.

Homelessness, suicide, drug abuse, and rape is another set.
The feminism that only exists in feminists heads is real, and the feminism that impacts society isn't real.

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Haktiva
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Founded: Sep 18, 2010
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Postby Haktiva » Mon Oct 26, 2015 9:12 am

Ostroeuropa wrote:
Haktiva wrote:first and foremost would be visitation rights, alimony, child support, and domestic violence.


I'd say it actually depends on your priorities.

Homelessness, suicide, drug abuse, and rape is another set.

seems my main points are oriented around Father's Rights :blush:
All around disagreeable person.

"Personal freedom is a double edged sword though. On the one end, it grants more power to the individual. However, the vast majority of individuals are fuckin idiots, and if certain restraints are not metered down by more responsible members of society, the society quickly degrades into a hedonistic and psychotic cluster fuck."

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Nioya
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Democratic Socialists

Postby Nioya » Mon Oct 26, 2015 9:23 am

Haktiva wrote:
Nioya wrote:what are some mens right issues i should address in my factbook?

first and foremost would be visitation rights, alimony, child support, and domestic violence.


Would you eliminate alimony?
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First name: Matt
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Haktiva
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Founded: Sep 18, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby Haktiva » Mon Oct 26, 2015 9:27 am

Nioya wrote:
Haktiva wrote:first and foremost would be visitation rights, alimony, child support, and domestic violence.


Would you eliminate alimony?

unless the inferior party is crippled and can't actually take care of themselves beyond the shadow of a doubt, but I think that's what disability is fore. Of course, the state would rather have some guy pay for a broken woman than have to flip the bill to the taxpayers.
All around disagreeable person.

"Personal freedom is a double edged sword though. On the one end, it grants more power to the individual. However, the vast majority of individuals are fuckin idiots, and if certain restraints are not metered down by more responsible members of society, the society quickly degrades into a hedonistic and psychotic cluster fuck."

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Ostroeuropa
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Founded: Jun 14, 2006
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Ostroeuropa » Mon Oct 26, 2015 9:39 am

Nioya wrote:
Haktiva wrote:first and foremost would be visitation rights, alimony, child support, and domestic violence.


Would you eliminate alimony?


I'd limit alimony. One year only and such.

http://news.nationalpost.com/health/ont ... ircumcised

By the way.
The feminism that only exists in feminists heads is real, and the feminism that impacts society isn't real.

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Haktiva
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Founded: Sep 18, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby Haktiva » Mon Oct 26, 2015 9:42 am

Ostroeuropa wrote:
Nioya wrote:
Would you eliminate alimony?


I'd limit alimony. One year only and such.

http://news.nationalpost.com/health/ont ... ircumcised

By the way.

even amongst the Jewish community, circumcision is being called into question. Old traditions may have served a purpose way back when(personal hygiene not being known, short lifespans, general stupidity), but nowadays people don't think it's entirely necessary.

Personally I think Rabbis are a bit more careful and do a better job, but maybe that's because my Bris never bothered me. Don't advocate for gentiles to be circumcised, nor anyone, however.
All around disagreeable person.

"Personal freedom is a double edged sword though. On the one end, it grants more power to the individual. However, the vast majority of individuals are fuckin idiots, and if certain restraints are not metered down by more responsible members of society, the society quickly degrades into a hedonistic and psychotic cluster fuck."

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New Benian Republic
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Founded: Aug 03, 2015
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Postby New Benian Republic » Mon Oct 26, 2015 10:29 am

Haktiva wrote:
Ostroeuropa wrote:
I'd limit alimony. One year only and such.

http://news.nationalpost.com/health/ont ... ircumcised

By the way.

even amongst the Jewish community, circumcision is being called into question. Old traditions may have served a purpose way back when(personal hygiene not being known, short lifespans, general stupidity), but nowadays people don't think it's entirely necessary.

Personally I think Rabbis are a bit more careful and do a better job, but maybe that's because my Bris never bothered me. Don't advocate for gentiles to be circumcised, nor anyone, however.

It's mutilation so yeah.
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Haktiva
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Founded: Sep 18, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby Haktiva » Mon Oct 26, 2015 10:39 am

New Benian Republic wrote:
Haktiva wrote:even amongst the Jewish community, circumcision is being called into question. Old traditions may have served a purpose way back when(personal hygiene not being known, short lifespans, general stupidity), but nowadays people don't think it's entirely necessary.

Personally I think Rabbis are a bit more careful and do a better job, but maybe that's because my Bris never bothered me. Don't advocate for gentiles to be circumcised, nor anyone, however.

It's mutilation so yeah.

can't argue with that, especially since I got into the manosphere
All around disagreeable person.

"Personal freedom is a double edged sword though. On the one end, it grants more power to the individual. However, the vast majority of individuals are fuckin idiots, and if certain restraints are not metered down by more responsible members of society, the society quickly degrades into a hedonistic and psychotic cluster fuck."

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Ostroeuropa
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 55388
Founded: Jun 14, 2006
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Ostroeuropa » Mon Oct 26, 2015 11:34 am

Haktiva wrote:
Ostroeuropa wrote:
I'd limit alimony. One year only and such.

http://news.nationalpost.com/health/ont ... ircumcised

By the way.

even amongst the Jewish community, circumcision is being called into question. Old traditions may have served a purpose way back when(personal hygiene not being known, short lifespans, general stupidity), but nowadays people don't think it's entirely necessary.

Personally I think Rabbis are a bit more careful and do a better job, but maybe that's because my Bris never bothered me. Don't advocate for gentiles to be circumcised, nor anyone, however.


Didn't know you were Jewish. Any unique perspectives on mens issues?
The feminism that only exists in feminists heads is real, and the feminism that impacts society isn't real.

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Haktiva
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Posts: 4762
Founded: Sep 18, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby Haktiva » Mon Oct 26, 2015 11:42 am

Ostroeuropa wrote:
Haktiva wrote:even amongst the Jewish community, circumcision is being called into question. Old traditions may have served a purpose way back when(personal hygiene not being known, short lifespans, general stupidity), but nowadays people don't think it's entirely necessary.

Personally I think Rabbis are a bit more careful and do a better job, but maybe that's because my Bris never bothered me. Don't advocate for gentiles to be circumcised, nor anyone, however.


Didn't know you were Jewish. Any unique perspectives on mens issues?

can't give much aside from anecdotes, even then I'm not very religious and basically a borderline Atheist. However, growing up and just looking around, the relations between men and women are pretty stereotypical, which kinda pisses me off. I can get more specific if you ask the right questions, just don't have the time for a whole bunch of nonsensical bullet points right now.
All around disagreeable person.

"Personal freedom is a double edged sword though. On the one end, it grants more power to the individual. However, the vast majority of individuals are fuckin idiots, and if certain restraints are not metered down by more responsible members of society, the society quickly degrades into a hedonistic and psychotic cluster fuck."

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Ostroeuropa
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Posts: 55388
Founded: Jun 14, 2006
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Ostroeuropa » Mon Oct 26, 2015 11:43 am

Haktiva wrote:
Ostroeuropa wrote:
Didn't know you were Jewish. Any unique perspectives on mens issues?

can't give much aside from anecdotes, even then I'm not very religious and basically a borderline Atheist. However, growing up and just looking around, the relations between men and women are pretty stereotypical, which kinda pisses me off. I can get more specific if you ask the right questions, just don't have the time for a whole bunch of nonsensical bullet points right now.


Ahh. Yeh, same in my area.
Lots of tradcon relationships. Fuck that.
The feminism that only exists in feminists heads is real, and the feminism that impacts society isn't real.

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Haktiva
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Posts: 4762
Founded: Sep 18, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby Haktiva » Mon Oct 26, 2015 5:12 pm

Ostroeuropa wrote:
Haktiva wrote:can't give much aside from anecdotes, even then I'm not very religious and basically a borderline Atheist. However, growing up and just looking around, the relations between men and women are pretty stereotypical, which kinda pisses me off. I can get more specific if you ask the right questions, just don't have the time for a whole bunch of nonsensical bullet points right now.


Ahh. Yeh, same in my area.
Lots of tradcon relationships. Fuck that.

I grew up in a Reform household, technically, so I can't really speak for the other sects. Obviously there's a lot of high standards directed towards men in regards to what they can achieve, and it doesn't help that you're considered to be missing half your soul or some shit if you don't marry and have kids. That applies to women too, of course, but as a man it's not much different anywhere else in terms of what's expected of you. Master of the house, always responsible, spiritual strength, etc etc. Don't get me started on the battle axes we call women though.
All around disagreeable person.

"Personal freedom is a double edged sword though. On the one end, it grants more power to the individual. However, the vast majority of individuals are fuckin idiots, and if certain restraints are not metered down by more responsible members of society, the society quickly degrades into a hedonistic and psychotic cluster fuck."

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