The Historical RP Group HQ 3

by **Alleniana** » Thu Oct 22, 2015 4:23 pm

Introduction
So, one day, we felt the need for a historical RP group. And here you have it. This is the group's headquarters, where we will discuss what to do, what we are doing, what we have done, what we should do, as well as general other banter, posting links to RPs, and generally putting ideas out there and bouncing them around. It is, at its core, a discussion thread; feel free to advertise, put up ideas for just about anything vaguely historical and chat about anything; just try to keep completely off-topic to a minimum. Also, feel free to suggest improvements to the thread or give suggestions. Remember forum rules, and have fun!

Announcement
owo wat is dit

RP Advertisement
Advertising relevant RPs here is allowed and encouraged. In doing so, we suggest you fill in the fields of this form, which will help people understand what you are RPing better, as well as allow your advertisement to be found, noticed and recognised more easily.

Code: Select all: [box][size=150]Historical RP Advertisement Form[/size] [b]RP name:[/b] [b]Link to RP:[/b] [b]OP/co-OPs of RP:[/b] [b]Genre:[/b] [b]Elaboration on RP:[/b] [b]Target RPer group:[/b] [b]Other info:[/b] 429429 (marks this as an advertisement form)[/box]

Connections
We have a Discord server, here.

We also have a historical character RP group, here.

Membership
We have a member list, which is basically anyone vaguely affiliated. If you want to join, just ask, and include the number "442299" in the post in which you ask to join. I'll periodically search up the number and add everyone who has asked; there are no requirements or responsibilities, and if you want to be removed from the list, just TG me and I'll do it ASAP.

Links
Historical Group HQ 1 (previous installment)
Historical Group HQ 2 (previous installment)
P2TM Cafe 3 (for more general RP discussion)

Results of polls conducted on thread
Thread 2 began

Thread 3 began

Note: Dates are formatted dd/mm/yyyy, dates are in UTC, all polls allowed only 1 option to be chosen, all polls allowed changing votes, options are arranged in results in the same order they were in the poll

by **Alleniana** » Thu Oct 22, 2015 4:23 pm

reserve
BEGIN POSTING

by **Yasuragi** » Thu Oct 22, 2015 4:29 pm

Why are we supposed to ignore that spoiler?

by **Alleniana** » Thu Oct 22, 2015 4:32 pm

Yasuragi wrote:Why are we supposed to ignore that spoiler?

It's full of stuff that I don't want to delete but that I can't be bothered cleaning up either. I'll clean it up eventually, though... maybe in a thread or two.

viewtopic.php?p=29784693#p29784693

Application

Poster: Alleniana
Name: English: Yue (official), Namyue, Lengnam/Lingnam, Dayue or Bakyue | Jyutping: Jyut6 (official), Naam4 Jyut6, Leng5 Naam4/Ling5 Naam4, Daai6 Jyut6 or Baak3 Jyut6 | Yue: 越 (official), 南越, 嶺南, 大越 or 百越
Symbols: Whales, some other animals (tiger? loris?), the Chinese character 越 (and also 南, 嶺 and 粵 to a lesser degree), the sea, the colour red, the direction south, fire kinda, qing colour kinda, birds kinda, Vermilion Bird kinda kinda
Territory: See map

Government Structure: Tricameral constitutional unitary parliamentary republic; there are three legislative houses, one plutocratic, one meritocratic and one democratic. Legislation must pass all three houses with a bare majority, or two houses with a 2/3 majority and the third house with at least 1/3 in favour.
- The Chamber of Money, often known as the Merchants' Chamber, has 27 seats, which are given to the 27 richest people or companies; the bureaucracy conducts a publicly overseen audit on those who wish to be considered, and if their assets are worth more than the least wealthy current member of the Chamber of Money, a place is granted and the least wealthy current member is removed. It elects a Chairperson of the Chamber of Money from among itself; this person is often known as the Chief Merchant.
- The Chamber of Study, often known as the Scholars' Chamber, has 50 seats, which are given to the 50 highest ranking members of the bureaucracy; the bureaucracy is self-governing and meritocratic, and largely executive and judicial in nature, using exams (both of ability and qualification) and judged quality of service as indicators of competence and appropriateness for appointment to a higher rank. It elects a Chairperson of the Chamber of Study from among itself; this person is often known as the Chief Scholar.
- The Chamber of Heads, often known as the Workers' Chamber, has 88 seats, which are given to the 88 people who receive the most votes in an election; the election is run by the bureaucracy and overseen by others, and gives a vote to each sane adult who has lived in Yue for the majority of the time since the last election; elections take place every 5 years and are not compulsory. Once votes are counted, candidates with more votes than the number needed to get into power can allocate their votes to other candidates. It elects a Chairperson of the Chamber of Heads from among itself; this person is often known as the Chief Worker.
Ministers and Secretaries are variously appointed by the legislature to carry certain things out; such positions which have existed in the past or currently exist include Minister of War, Secretary of State (never used anymore), Minister of Trade, Secretary of the Navy, Secretary of the Colonies and Minister of the Colonies.
Ideology/Policy: Meritocracy, commercialism, thalassocracy, balance, secularism; all generally shared by both the people and the government. Slavery is banned; as of quite recently, all slaves on Yue territory are automatically freed by law.
Foreign Relations: The state is largely pragmatic in how it interacts, though public opinion in a relatively open system does deter it from atrocity and absolutism. Relations are often considered in terms of profit.
- Wu: fierce rival due to competition in colonies, trade and naval strength and battle over dominance of the Chinese region as well as differing culture and ideology, though they are respected as generally honourable and civilised
- Taungoo: dislikes greatly due to conquest of ethnically, historically and linguistically Yue lands, intrusion into sphere of influence (both on land and as a power of medium strength in general), and public opinion which is irredentist and ideologically opposed, as well as perception of barbarism of them
- Chu: Neutral, depends on them and/or whether Yue plans to expand inland soon, which it now possesses the ability and desire to do; generally perceived as civilised, but less so than Yue
- Qian: Neutral, potentially positive given alliance in defeating or neutering central Chinese states, though Qian unification of northern China is feared and a certain cultural and ideological distance is felt, due to autocracy and their being northern and the Yue southern identity
- Korea: Neutral, potentially positive due to alliance against rivals (particularly Wu) or negative due to Korean intrusion into naval, mercantile and colonial sphere and cultural/ideological differences, also perception as on edge of Chinese civilisation
- Japan: Neutral, potentially positive due to alliance against rivals (particularly Wu) or negative due to Japanese intrusion into naval, mercantile and colonial sphere and cultural/ideological differences, also perception as on edge of Chinese civilisation
- France: Largely neutral, annoyance and slight rivalry at their colonial intrusion but also slight friendship due to potential for French help, technologically, politically, culturally, commercially, and particularly militarily, also general willingness to see what they as newcomers bring to the table and respect for their seafaring all this way; perceived as only slightly less honourable and civilised
- UK: Generally rivalry over colonies, related perception as somewhat less honourable and civilised but respect for abilities and achievements
- Russia: Neutral, potential aid in fighting within China but also potential threat of conquest, perceived as somewhat less civilised
- Vijayanagar: Slightly positive as their existence helps prevent conquest of India by a colonial power (Yue is too far) and treasure fleet history, but perception as less advanced and civilised if honourable
- United States: Neutral, slightly positive due to trade and cultural contact and romanticisation or perception of natural beauty, potential rival in future over Pacific
Leaders: Chief Merchant Lou Bakfong, Chief Scholar Kaa Taaplaai, Chief Worker Kau Laap
Capital: Punjyu (where modern day Guangzhou is, from IRL name Panyu); all central government institutions located there, it is in many ways a primate city. It is built full of canals, directing the rivers, and allowing ships to enter and exit more easily; further along the inlet are fortified towers to protect entrance. It is unwalled, and possibly the largest city in the world at 1.3 million; it is at least one of the biggest cities in the world. It is also quite possibly the busiest port in the world.

Demographics: The population of Yue is around 96 million, of which about 93 million are citizens, and the rest are simply unrecognised, whether due to lack of opportunity to recognise them or other factors such as being foreign. Around 69% of the population is literate, a number that is increasing at an increasing rate. Population tends to be concentrated along the coast and in fertile, less mountainous areas in the homeland; the colonies are not as populated. Around 82 million live on the mainland and 14 million in the colonies. Cities in particular are rapidly growing with the advent of industrialisation. Urbanisation was caused through centuries prior as farms became enclosed and more efficient, based more on a commercial model than subsistence, due to the emergence of a robust market. The gender balance is almost precisely equal, and the population has a relatively high average age; the life expectancy is about 40, and life expectancy at puberty is around 65. These high figures can be attributed to both living standards and genetics.
Ethnicity: The Yue people are a formation from northern migrations of Han intermixing with the southern groups known as the Baiyue or Yue. These migrations that produced the Yue began in earnest around the time of the Qin; the Qin conquered the southern area, however, as did their successors the Han after a short interlude. It was then that the Yue had their origin, but further migrations were more important, in the era of the Sui and Tang and just before and after. Both Sui and Tang had trouble holding onto the traditional Yue area, and Nanyue established itself as a native kingdom that fought against the Song, accepting more refugees, promoting a local identity and assimilating other groups formed of similarly intermixed migrants and natives. The Mongol conquest saw the last great wave of migration; from that time on, the Yue established a distinct and separate southern identity, and mostly did not see any more migration, and assimilated into the single ethnicity seen today.
Culture: Lucky numbers include 0, 1, 2, 3, 5, 7 and 8; music and the arts are promoted, prominent and unique. Architecture is especially notable; due to the separation of the south from the northern culture, the lack of trees, and relatively high levels of commerce, urbanisation and population, urban architecture has diverged greatly from tradition, producing buildings like brick apartments. In terms of being a warm vs cool culture, Yue might be considered middle ground. Literature is notably prominent.
Language: Yue is the lingua franca and dominant language of the region; speakers of other languages are rapidly switching over in the relatively outskirts, while due to the mercantile power of Yue, it is also becoming spoken in neighbours. Notably, many Yue speakers, who are also ethnic Yue, live in northern Taungoo. Language is held up as one of the things defining about citizenship, though it is not formal, simply a perception. Yue is a mix of northern Chinese dialects and southern native dialects. It is represented ICly practically by Cantonese.
Religion: Religion tends not to attract much notice; there are dominant philosophies, significantly differing from traditional Confucianism, and large communities and areas influenced by Islam, Buddhism, even Christianity and Shinto, but all in all most people follow only some traditional superstitions, some more intellectual ideas, or close to nothing at all. There is freedom of religion, not guaranteed, but in practise.

Military Organisation: A standing, professional, volunteer modern military of around a million exists, however, many exist as garrisons, especially in the colonies; only a large portion, not all, of the army could be mobilised to march as a field army in the case of war, though caveats exist allowing local militias to take over the role of keeping order. Conscription is legal and universal but almost never used, and can be avoided by paying a certain sum; the sum is raised or lowered depending on urgency. Both the land army and the navy are similar; ships can be taken unless a sum is paid, and the military is outfitted at government cost, producing standardised reusable interoperable equipment. Flintlock gunpowder weapons tend to be used, and rifling exists in rare cases, though other projectile weapons as well as some close combat weapons are used.
Army: The army takes most of the manpower of the military, and exists to keep order within the country, and of course, defend it or attack others. It uses tactics that tend to focus on gunnery, tenuous formation, strategic movement, infantry and defence, though the cavalry is acceptable too, if a bit small. Unusual compared to western countries, the army tends to be issued with a degree of light armour. Officers oversee a certain number of soldiers, and are selected by merit, rather than experience or commission. At present, the army is split into 7 parts; in the north, east, west and south of the mainland, and then three, one in each of the main colonial areas. Weaponry is generally muskets, bayonets, but also more innovative, unusual weaponry like hwachas, introduced from Korea during the period their cannons were, other forms of rocketry as artillery, and relatively unusual polearms and styles of armour for the cavalry, of which there are both heavy and light.
Navy: There are three classes of warships currently in operation by Yue; they correspond to the European ships of the line, frigates and sloops-of-war. All are built with junk rigging, and tend to be standardised well. They are also all copper plated effectively, with a type of bronze bolt being standard. They are each further split into two subcategories, being heavy and light; the difference is that heavy ones are less suited for rougher seas and incapable of faster speeds, while light ships are better at sailing but less so in direct combat (if its manoeuverability does not come into play). Ships all tend to be armed with a mixture of cannons mostly adopted from the Koreans (firing arrow/bolt shaped projectiles, with the aim of puncturing or igniting), more conventional cannonball firing cannons, incendiary weapons (fire tipped arrows and arrow rockets), muskets for those on board, and a symbolic onager at the prow of the ship, which is used to launch various ammunition including smoke bombs, sulphur, quicklime and refuse; powder may be launched from the artillery piece in a sack or similar container, with a fused bomb inside to make the container explode and spread the powder some distance from launch. The onager does not tend to be tactically effective but has replaced figureheads in many ways, and it is often given a name, ornately decorated and psychologically effective.
- First-rates have three decks, about 4000 tonnes displacement, about 1000 personnel; there are about 12 heavy first-rates and 24 light first-rates
- Second-rates have two decks, about 2000 tonnes displacement, about 500 personnel; there are about 15 heavy second-rates and 78 light second-rates
- Third-rates have one deck, about 500 tonnes displacement, about 125 personnel; there are about 420 heavy third-rates and 419 light third-rates
Development: Paved roads crisscross the country, even in much of the colonies, while railway lines between the most major destinations are springing up. However, due to the prevalence of a preexisting canal system, that is still used in great part, to great effect, for cargo, especially non-perishable. Cities tend to be relatively well planned out and prosperous, due to high economic growth; building codes also ensure living standards and safety are reasonable. Government buildings are well established too; commerce in general is able to take place without too much hindrance due to issues with transport (even crime along the way). The wealth of the middle class is increasing, growing demand, and fuelling commercialism, industrialisation and economic expansion. Wealth inequality is low compared to feudal or autocratic states, but far higher than many other states, in part due to the great amount of wealth that comes from commerce (rather than, say, subsistence) and accordingly tends to be unevenly distributed. The average person lives well; it could even be said that the middle class is the dominant class.
Economic policy: Due to the government's part plutocratic nature, there is no line between the market and the state; while cronyism is a concern, the chambers tend to address it and use mercantilistic power to the state's benefit, rather than more to individuals' pockets. In general, the government might be described as competently interventionist. It is investing in railways, steamships, textile mills, factories, foundries, arsenals and other endeavours.
Trade: A great deal of trade occurs internally; the colonies export raw resources, including especially food, while the mainland exports other goods back, such as weapons, consumer goods, metal, and some crops that need a cooler climate. There is also export of oriental goods to the West, which helps earn a healthy trade surplus, though it is being eaten into by the middle class' consumption and goods needed for modernisation. The state is highly mercantilistic and commercial; trade is a big part of life. Punjyu is the major regional entrepot. Corruption tends not to be an issue in trade. Land trade is not as large-scale or important as waterborne trade. There are some customs, tariffs, duties, etc. Trade routes include through the Straits of Malacca, across the Pacific, to eastern Australia, and round, further north to the rest of China.
Currency: Yue runs on a silver standard, with silver taels being a larger, formal unit of currency, but copper cash coins of standardised mint are pegged to it officially. Banknotes, cheques and other means are finding some traction.

History: The ancient Baiyue people, the collective term for "barbarians" south of China, were first truly conquered by the Qin dynasty. While the Qin dynasty fell quickly, the Han replaced it soon after. It was in this period that the first significant migrations of Han, fleeing wars and famines, made their way to the south, intermixing with the locals. While later migrations were far larger, this was the beginning of the Yue identity.

When Han fell into disarray and China was disunited, roughly five groups were discernible in Lingnan. The Nanyue were the southernmost of them. The Nanyue was the dominant kingdom in Lingnan for most of the era between the Han dynasty and the Sui dynasty, when significant migration continued. The Sui and Tang dynasties made unsuccessful attempts to properly conquer Nanyue, which grew into a kingdom spanning almost all of Lingnan.

The wars in which the Song united China caused more migration, ending with the Song conquering Nanyue. However, the Song struggle to hold Nanyue, despite imposing many of its institutions and introducing economic prosperity through industry. Coal mining began in this period, and accelerated with population growth. Ultimately, during the Mongol conquest, a pan-Yue state is able to break free and submit to the Mongols before they conquer it as the rest of the Song.

Many of the near-industrial corporations and wealthy, educated people fled from the north in the last great wave of migration, during the Mongol conquest. Their arrival and the disarray within the state helped homogeneise the non-Yue peoples within its borders, though it was now a Mongol tributary. Mongol rule was a period of peace, prosperity and trade, however, the Yuan attempts to integrate Yue did not go down well. Hostilities broke out, but the Yuan soon fell to revolts. A Yue that was unused to independent kingship took the opportunity to expand, but came out of it somewhat unstable.

In the period of disunity after the Yuan, Yue deposed its king for a time, established a kind of republic, before going back to a king, before deposing the king once again. The philosopher and statesman On Ngong ended the Second Civil War with a compromise between the sides (the first was the war that brought back the king, the second the one that removed him again [the first time the king was removed it was a relatively bloodless coup d'etat]). In this period, the Yue towards the area of Vietnam became somewhat more distant and split off.

A generation after the king was gone for good, the continuous modern meritocratic-plutocratic-democratic republican state had essentially been established. However, some had fled it to trading partners to the south during its instability. The state became increasingly maritime oriented as it found the profitability of trade for a non-autocratic state able to embrace capitalism, and due to the military superiority of northern forces at the time. First, informal settlements sprung up, then kongsi federation type situations, before finally a formal colonial project was embarked on, annexing the Philippines, Taiwan, Sulawesi and parts of New Guinea. Around this time, the commercialisation of agriculture was pushing people off the land; huge numbers of Yue migrated south, including many from poorer, less connected regions, resulting in the side effect of the depopulation of some ethnic minority regions. Colonialism and trade imperialism continued, and the merchant classes grew more powerful, with reforms acknowledging the increasingly thalassocratic, mercantile, colonial nature of the state implemented that essentially left the state as it is in its modern incarnation. The population continued growing, and the industrial revolution swept in, further accelerating economic development, and helping to push Yue, with its huge, united population, stable system, colonies and naval strength, to the forefront of the world. Railways were built in this period.
Miscellaneous: Most populous, busiest port, most shipping, most populous colonies, largest city, largest economy, also battle cries yes

429

by **Aden Protectorate** » Thu Oct 22, 2015 4:34 pm

Aden was here!

by **The Blazing Aura** » Thu Oct 22, 2015 4:58 pm

Still lurking around from time to time...

by **Terminus Alpha** » Thu Oct 22, 2015 4:58 pm

Alleniana wrote:reserve
BEGIN POSTING

no

by **The Industrial States of Columbia** » Thu Oct 22, 2015 5:05 pm

by **Altito Asmoro** » Thu Oct 22, 2015 5:06 pm

I'm here.

by **The Kingdom of Glitter** » Thu Oct 22, 2015 5:29 pm

by **Reatra** » Thu Oct 22, 2015 5:39 pm

Gib poll pl0x

by **Alleniana** » Thu Oct 22, 2015 5:48 pm

Reatra wrote:Gib poll pl0x

0k

by **The Holy Dominion of Inesea** » Thu Oct 22, 2015 6:02 pm

Milk before Cereal is crime

by **Kryskov** » Thu Oct 22, 2015 6:44 pm

I christen thee the HMS Group 3, may the waves be agreeable and the sails haughty!

OH THE WORST OLE SHIP THAT EVER DID SAIL
SAIL'D OUT OF 'ERRIDGE ON A WINDY DAY
AND WE'RE WAIT'N FOR THE DAY
WAIT'N FOR THE DAY
WAIT'N FOR THE DAY
JUST TO GET OUR PAY

by **The Industrial States of Columbia** » Thu Oct 22, 2015 6:48 pm

Kryskov wrote:I christen thee the HMS Group 3, may the waves be agreeable and the sails haughty!

OH THE WORST OLE SHIP THAT EVER DID SAIL
SAIL'D OUT OF 'ERRIDGE ON A WINDY DAY
AND WE'RE WAIT'N FOR THE DAY
WAIT'N FOR THE DAY
WAIT'N FOR THE DAY
JUST TO GET OUR PAY

What is this derived from ;U;

by **Baja California y Sonora** » Thu Oct 22, 2015 7:00 pm

Nice!

by **Reatra** » Thu Oct 22, 2015 7:04 pm

Baja California y Sonora wrote:Nice!

[img=https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=3WAOxKOmR90]Noice[/img]

by **Timothia** » Thu Oct 22, 2015 8:05 pm

I remember when the first group started...

*sniffle*

I was just a whippersnapper back then

by **Arcerion** » Thu Oct 22, 2015 9:01 pm

Hey gents. Looking to kick off a US Civil War RP from purely the Confederate perspective. The focus is on a mix of grand strategy and tactical gameplay. Players can debate and argue, and every week at a scheduled time the game time will move forward. Players can scheme, plan, and decide how they will fight as things move forward.

The way it works is via supply lines, as well as capturing key 'morale objectives'. The CSA must maintain high morale, by winning battles and recapturing lost cities.

Players will be the staff of a whole Corps. They will decide what Generals are put where, where they commit their forces, the routes they take, etc., and every week see the result of their actions. To give you an idea the size of a Corps:

Regiment: ~1,000 men
Brigade: ~4,000 men
Division ~16,000 men
Corps: ~80,000 men

If there is enough interest I'll throw up a construction thread and start hammering things out. Looking for 5 players max., preferably with experience.

by **Finland SSR** » Thu Oct 22, 2015 9:57 pm

LITHUANIA, OUR DEAR FATHERLAND!

LAND OF WORTHY HEROES!

MAY YOUR SONS DRAW STRENGTH AND VIGOR

FROM YOUR PAST EXPERIENCE!

MAY YOUR CHILDREN ALWAYS PROUDLY

CHOOSE THE PATHS OF VIRTUE!

MAY YOUR GOOD AND GAINS OF PEOPLE

BE THE GOALS THEY WORK FOR!

MAY THE SUN OF THIS LAND

SCATTER ALL THE GLOOM AND DARK!

TRUTH AND LIGHT, SHINING BRIGHT,

GUIDE OUR STEPS FOREVER!

MAY OUR LOVE FOR LITHUANIA

KEEP ON BURNING IN OUR HEARTS!

FOR THE SAKE OF THIS LAND

WE SHALL STAND TOGETHER!

Also, who the hell puts milk in before cereal? Is it an Australian thing I'm not aware of?

by **G-Tech Corporation** » Thu Oct 22, 2015 10:06 pm

So, a new ARR.

by **Liecthenbourg** » Thu Oct 22, 2015 11:23 pm

@Sen.
Putting the milk before the cereal is an act done by heretics most foul.

by **Lunas Legion** » Fri Oct 23, 2015 12:28 am

Liecthenbourg wrote:@Sen.
Putting the milk before the cereal is an act done by heretics most foul.

Yup. How do you know how much milk you'll need for your cereal without putting the cereal in first?

by **Lunas Legion** » Fri Oct 23, 2015 12:28 am

Liecthenbourg wrote:@Sen.
Putting the milk before the cereal is an act done by heretics most foul.

Yup. How do you know how much milk you'll need for your cereal without putting the cereal in first?

by **The Jonathanian States** » Fri Oct 23, 2015 12:30 am

Arcerion wrote:Hey gents. Looking to kick off a US Civil War RP from purely the Confederate perspective.

Heresy. Traitorscum, the whole lot of 'em.

Anyway, new thread. I obviously didn't copy any discussions because Australian time-mechanics, so there's that.
Also, in celebration of thread three I am considering actually joining y'all in this weird group of yours which I am unaffiliated with.

Lunas Legion wrote:
Liecthenbourg wrote:@Sen.
Putting the milk before the cereal is an act done by heretics most foul.

Yup. How do you know how much milk you'll need for your cereal without putting the cereal in first?

By not doubleposting. Tell me to delete this and I'll delete it, allowing you to delete the last of yours.

The Historical RP Group HQ 3

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The Historical RP Group HQ 3

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