NATION

PASSWORD

Future Tech Advice and Assistance Thread [O.O.C.]

A staging-point for declarations of war and other major diplomatic events. [In character]

Advertisement

Remove ads

User avatar
The Fedral Union
Senator
 
Posts: 4270
Founded: Antiquity
Capitalizt

Postby The Fedral Union » Mon Sep 21, 2015 11:13 pm

Well; that depends. There are plenty of things one can do on a national level as well as character level Are you still going with you space Russia or are pondering a revamp?


The fungus thing sounds like xenofungus from SMAC; only thing it needs is.... -shiver- mindworms.

User avatar
Stormwrath
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6833
Founded: Feb 08, 2014
New York Times Democracy

Postby Stormwrath » Tue Sep 22, 2015 11:17 pm

A General Guide to Creating Fictional Religions
RELIGION CREATION 101



DISCLAIMER:
Salutations! Before we begin, I have to explain what this guide is and what it's not. It's not the Bible, Koran, Tanakh, Vedas, Zend-Avesta, I Ching, or many other sacred scriptures when it comes to creating fictional religions; nor is it a dissertation on religion, theology, mythology, or any other related fields. Neither is this guide the Word of Mentors God — that is, an authoritative list of requirements given out for FTers to fulfill. Most importantly, this guide is not a critique of any actual religion or religious philosophy. This is merely a guide that will serve as a help for those who are creating your fictional religion(s) for your FT star-states, roleplays and other things.

Also, don't assume that Storm[wrath] here is highly intelligent on the matters of religion, for I am just someone who is fascinated by religion and its influence. We have our fellow II Mentors specializing in FT who can help you, as well as other FTers like myself; so feel free to ask questions. We won't bite. Mostly. I will be providing external sources for you to check out, as I am sure that those sources can better explain things than I can in this guide.

If you do decide to make your fictional religion a reality in the real world, DO SO AT YOUR OWN RISK. people may most likely call you a nutjob or a heretic, and you and your followers may or may not be persecuted by society. Trust me, it's a thing.


While The Uthani Imperium's Guide to Future Tech World Building is a useful tool for worldbuilding your FT star-state, this guide is primarily focused on the aspect of your nation's religion(s). This guide seeks to provide FTers with a more detailed explanation of certain concepts of religion, as well as provide RPers with a tool that they can use to create their own for their star-state one day. However, not everything in this guide is set in stone. You may choose to deviate from the standard, and no one's going to shoot you down for it. After all, your religion is only limited by your imagination.

Are you good? Very well, let us commence with the General Guide to Creating Fictional Religions, also known as Religion 101. But first, a brief description of what is religion.

What are Religions?

From theologians to philosophers, from the most devout adherents to the most nitpicking critics — all kinds of people have different meanings they maintain about religion. To sum these meanings up for convenience, a religion is an organized collection of beliefs, practices and worldviews that relate humanity (and other intelligent races) to another plane of existence [SOURCE] — often one that cannot be seen. In almost every part of our world, humans have wondered about many things that they believe could be answered by religion such as the purpose and meaning of life, the origin of everything, what it means to be human, what lies in store in the world to come, etc., etc. Fictional alien races may have asked those same questions as well.

Religion is often used interchangeably with faith, set of beliefs, or things you have to do in order to arrive at the next world (the good one, not the bad one), but religion is much more than just a collection of set beliefs. It is something that is inherently social according to certain sociologists. Generally, a religion has doctrines, beliefs, prescribed behaviors, a clergy, holy place, scriptures and many other things. Aspects of a star-state's culture such as rituals, sermons, veneration of a god or gods, prayer, meditation, music, art, dance, public service, etc., are some religious practices. It may even contain narratives, mythology and superstitions. Simply put, it is an interesting part that you may want to consider going into.

When creating a fictional religion, the easiest way to come up with one is to draw from actual religions. There are so many religions to choose from that may serve to be the inspiration for your very own fictional religion. Unless you really are quite a religious Einstein, no one can create a religious faith in a vacuum. Even the New Age movement didn't come out of nowhere. It is recommended that you go and research on the religions that you want to base it on so you can formulate a set of beliefs and teachings that fit your religion. If you wish to combine the facets of Taoism with that of Celtic religions, there is no one that can stop you but your imagination.

Usually when creating a religion, a central focus is to be considered — which says a lot about why that religion exists, or why your people would want to form that religion in the first place. [SOURCE] Is it because the world seems to have lost sight of what was important according to the religion you are forming? What does it focus on? What is the motive behind the creation of your fictional religion in your FT star-state? Make what works best as you see fit.

Major Concepts of the Divine

The concept of the divine is the most likely the first thing that will come to mind when creating a religion. The central beliefs that revolve around it may follow. After all, most dictionaries say that religion involves the worship of a certain divine power, often a god or gods. The belief in a superhuman divinity is central to most religions around the world, though there may be certain exceptions.

When trying to create a god or goddess, there are certain things that you may consider. Your deity's scope and power is the first thing that may be on the average list in God-making 101. Does your god govern certain aspects of a certain object in nature or in abstract concepts, or does he/she rule all of them? How powerful is your god? Does it know no bounds or not? Does he/she know everything? Is he/she everywhere? Those are some of the questions you may ask.

Another thing that may be considered first would be the concept of the divine applied to your religion. Is God manifested in one being or a pantheon of beings? Do they interact with the universe and creation? If so, how do they interact with it? How is creation affected by the decision of the divine? How do mortals interact with their god or gods? As a personal suggestion I recommend formulating one or two central beliefs of your religion before you fret about those things, but you may choose to do so otherwise. After all, I have my own way of doing things, you have your own.

Here are some of the main concepts of God that one can select, though these concepts aren't concrete or mutually exclusive in their nature. Atheism isn't included for obvious reasons.

  • Monotheism
    Monotheism, to put it simply, is a belief that there is only one God, [SOURCE] often one that dominates all aspects of the universe, and sometimes that of human life. Prominent real life examples of monotheistic religions include the Abrahamic religions (Christianity, Islam and Judaism), Sikhism, Zoroastrianism, and many others. To most, a monotheistic religion is the easiest way to come up with a fictional religion — however it may become more complicated when you delve into it more.

    Common characteristics of this sole deity in many religions is that he is a supreme and transcendent deity, however there may be subtle differences to the power and scope of this god. Some religions hold that he is omnipotent, omniscient and omnipresent; while others believe otherwise. Often God has the power to intervene in his creations, though there may be exceptions (see Deism). Monotheism is quite flexible with other concepts described here, because people can attribute or even fuse from other concepts of God.

  • Polytheism
    Polytheism is the belief in more than one god. [SOURCE] The common characteristic of polytheistic religions is that adherents worship many gods and goddesses, and perform rituals and traditions that are associated with their respective deities. Many religions are known to be polytheistic — such as the religions of the ancient world and modern religions like Hinduism, Jainism, Neopaganism and Shinto.

    Polytheism can be divided between hard polytheism and soft polytheism. [SOURCE] Hard polytheism is the beliefs that the god are distinct and separate divine beings, and reject the idea that the gods are just one entity. Soft polytheism on the other hand, is the belief that the gods are only aspects of a single deity. The gods and goddesses may be similar in personality with mortals, with their own skills, needs and wants. Like monotheism, the power and scope of the gods varies from religion to religion.

    However, polytheism doesn't have to be only about the worship of many gods; in fact some polytheistic religion focus on the worship of spirits. The principles of soft and hard polytheism may apply to animist religions and other faith systems involving nature worship. Paganism is often equated with polytheism — in fact it was a traditionally derogatory term used by monotheistic religions in order to prove that they are the "true religion."

  • Pantheism
    Pantheism is a doctrine that identifies God with the universe and the forces that govern it. [SOURCE] In a sense, God is manifested in the universe. It is related to and often paired with polytheism, but there are pantheistic religions and sects that are also monotheistic. Hinduism is a well-known example of a pantheistic religion, while Taoism has some similarities with other pantheistic religions.

    A related concept of pantheism is panentheism, which is most likely a fusion of theism and pantheism. Panentheism holds that God exists in and beyond the material world. Nature worship and animism are also related to pantheism — in the fact that they believe that God exists in all things — but both are distinct from pantheism in that nature worship focuses on the worship of natural phenomenon rather than the god behind them, while animism holds that nature has a spiritual essence.

  • Deism
    Like the other major schools of theist religion, deism shares a belief in a supreme divinity. However, it differs from the others in its distinctive belief that this being is merely a creator who made the universe and then leaves it to function on its own. This is known to many of us as the "Absent Clockmaker" concept. To deists the creator cannot, does not, or will not intervene in his creations — no matter how much power does the creator have to theoretically intervene.

    For deists, mortals can know God through reason and by observing nature, and not by divine revelations or by manifestations of the supernaturals such as miracles. [SOURCE] It rejects that the beliefs found in it aren't because God showed it to them, but because of mortal reason. Thus, mortals have a large role to play in the knowledge of the divine. While deism is widely seen to be a sub-belief of monotheism, you can adopt deism to polytheistic religions as well.

  • Nontheism
    However, there are certain religions that lack or do not require the presence or existence of a divinity. To distinguish them from theist religions, they are classified as nontheistic religions. These religions reject the belief in a god or gods. [SOURCE] While God is absent from these religions, they often have organized sets of beliefs and practices that qualify them as religions. Prominent examples of spiritual philosophies include Buddhism, Taoism and Confucianism.

    Most nontheistic religions stem from the teachings or writings of a certain person, which state what one should do to attain a higher plane of existence. Others are based on older religions, philosophies, traditions, or schools of thought. Through their doctrines and beliefs, they could be aligned with theistic religions. Some nontheistic religions may hold a softer approach that deities exist but they are never more powerful than mortals. This may apply to spirits as well.

Beliefs and Dogmas

To follow the definition given in the introduction, a religion should have a set of beliefs and dogmas that define it. Creating your own religion — particularly its beliefs and worldviews — is similar to worldbuilding: start with the big, simple and central; end with the small, elaborate and peripheral. Usually, one would start by answering these particular questions: the meaning of life, the origin of the universe, the purpose of existence, what lies in store in the afterlife, and the concept of morality and ethics. These four usually are found in most religions.

Metaphysics and epistemology cannot be fully separated from religions. Most of the time they are required to formulate the beliefs and dogmas of your fictional religion. Contemporary knowledge about the universe may influence metaphysics and epistemology in a way that may influence religions, depending on the kind of FT star-states involved.

In order to keep track of everything that the religion believes in, they often employ the creation and publication of sacred texts. To most religions, it's all in there. They may outline as many beliefs that your religion has, usually the ones that form the core of your religion and what it believes in. However, some of your religion's beliefs may be elaborated by other writings that may supplement information about a particular doctrine or set of doctrines so your adherents may understand better.

When formulating a set of beliefs and dogmas, one is recommended to start out with the core beliefs of your faith. Those core beliefs are held to the highest importance in your fictional religion, while secondary or tertiary beliefs tend to be related to those primary beliefs. Usually there are a set number of beliefs (usually two or three) [SOURCE] that serve as core beliefs.

Here are some beliefs common to most religions. Note that the things I outlined here may not be representative of all religions, nor is the list complete as I have a limited perspective on things.

  • Creation Myth
    Before people started believing that the Big Bang was the most probable way that the universe began (as far as the knowledge of 21st century Terran mankind is concerned), creation myths were one of the best ways to explain the origin of the universe. Real world religions have different narratives on how the universe was created and how mortals came to be, but there are certain things in common that one can observe. However, not all of them necessitate a beginning.

    The first of these is how there was something out of nothing, or another something. In order to create that something, there has to be a certain entity that transcends space and time — or an object that already exists — in order for there to be something. Some religions were specific about it, while others gave a vague account of this beginning. However, once everything has already begun, that's where it gets specific. The Earth came forth as the pearl of a cosmic clam. The Earth was formed from a ball of mud. A cosmic scarab beetle took some cosmic dung and rolled it into a ball that became the Earth. Your imagination has no limits whatsoever! The 4Cs don't apply to creation myths!

  • Mythology
    Legends, narratives, tales and stories of mortals and deities; monstrous creatures, beauteous creatures and terrifying beasts; the triumphs and pitfalls of certain characters — indeed mythology is a fascinating concept to play around with, especially with religion. This concept is what you will most likely flesh out the most, if rituals are not your strong suit.

    Mythology is a collection of myths, especially one belonging to a particular religious or cultural group of people — stories they tell to explain the world around them [SOURCE] (at least before science caught up). The mythology of a religion often has gods and goddesses, their assistants (other beings, spirits, angels, etc.), mythological creatures and their respective origin myths. It may also explain the why behind natural phenomenon, or why certain rituals are being performed. It is a vital feature in sapient society that also affects religion.

  • The Afterlife
    Unless you are a nihilist, no one wants to die and to remain dead forever, correct? Death to most people is a scary part of life, and certainly there has to be hope for mortals. The afterlife is the belief that there is life after death has passed. Concepts such as the immortality of the soul, reincarnation, resurrection and heaven and hell are under this common category.

    In most religions, mortals after death live as spirits that reside in realms that are unseen by other mortals. These realms are divided into two categories: celestial and chthonic. Celestial realms are often equated with heaven, while chthonic realms are equated with the underworld. Often the dead are known to reside in the chthonic realm. Despite the misconception, not all chthonic realms are necessarily a place of suffering (Elysium being a prominent example).

    In some religions, the concept of an actual afterlife may not be necessarily entailed, as the spiritual/otherworldly plane may be supposedly within our plane of existence, depending on the doctrines you want for your religion.

  • Good and Evil
    This is a newer overarching concept for religion — especially in human history — but the concept of good and evil play a key role in most religions today, especially in the formation of morals and ethics. This dualism and contrast between the forces of good and evil can be an interesting set of beliefs to consider on when creating your religion, even though you could ignore that entirely. While all religions tell it differently, the bottom line is that evil began in some way, and there was a struggle against good — a struggle that good always wins.

    The concept of good and evil, along with other ethical concepts, were direct logical consequence of the religion's beliefs and how it sees the world. As such, what may be acceptable in one religion may not be in another; eating pork is an example. While there are moral absolutes, the line of morality has always been arbitrary.

    Evil can come from a mysterious beginning, or by the actions of gods or created beings. Once it has manifested itself into the material world, evil is introduced and corrupts the world; bringing suffering to all created beings, particularly sapient beings. To combat evil, it may be from the actions of mortals in order to win the favor of the gods, or by divine intervention that mortals may be freed from the influence of evil. In the end, the universe will undergo a destructive cleansing that will restore it to its former perfection. In other religions, the cleansing was for the creation of a new universe.

Rituals and Practices

No matter what your central tenets of your faith stand on, it is more or less worthless without rituals, practices and traditions. These help bind a religious community together and instill faith in your religion. Most rituals and traditions are tied to religious beliefs; others evolved or were added over time as the religion develops its doctrines. Certain traditions that may have originated in religion may carry over to secular practice because of their deeply entrenched influence in your star-state's society. This may be the next thing that you may focus on when creating a fictional religion. Rituals are often considered an expression of faith in a religion's beliefs, so they are very important.

Often times religions have a place of worship such as temples or high places, where adherents go to in order to pay reverence and veneration to the object of worship in that temple, such as a deity or a series of deities. Some of them have a name unique to their religion such as churches (Christianity), mosques (Islam) and synagogues (Judaism). Places of worship tend to have regular worship services that adherents would participate in regularly or special services that are held regularly once in a while. Worship services have their own series of rituals and practices that may very from religion to religion — it may even vary from denomination to denomination (see Sects, Cults and Denominations for more information).

While there are many rituals that can be considered when formulating a set of them for your religion's adherents to follow, three particular rituals that may be worth special note in this guide (because of their universality) would be ceremonial interment, marriage rites, and prayer.

Burial practices may differ from culture to culture, and may be shaped by religion. Often burial practices are the manifestation of the desire to demonstrate respect for the dead. [SOURCE] It is also a way of expressing belief in an afterlife; sometimes it is believed to be a necessary step for the dead to reach the afterlife in certain religions. [SOURCE] Often there would be a ceremony that would take place before the deceased person is buried — which may vary among religions. However, there are alternatives to burial that may serve the same purposes. [SOURCE]

Marriage is a ritually recognized union or legal contract between spouses that establishes rights and obligations between them, then and their children, and them and their in-laws. [SOURCE] The religious attitudes and practices relating to marriage may vary; and many religions often have unequivocal prescriptions of marriage, establishing both rituals and rules of conduct. [SOURCE] These may vary from religion to religion, and may even carry over to secular practice.

Prayer is a act of communicating with an object of worship. It may be either individual or communal and take place in public or in private. Often prayer may take the form of a hymn, an incantation, a formal statement as part of another ritual or tradition, or just uttering in the part of the person praying. It may be done by talking, singing or in complete silence. Prayer is often directed to a deity, a spirit, deceased person or a lofty idea — for the purpose of worship, requesting guidance or assistance, confessing sins or to express one's thoughts and emotions. [SOURCE]

Sects, Cults and Denominations

Every religion is bound to have individuals, groups or even entire congregations that may disagree with each other on the basis of certain doctrines or teachings. After all, truth can be hard to convey properly — especially on religious matters. Every religion has sects, cults and denominations that are defined by their distinctive doctrines that may or may not be unique to others of their kind. Sects, cults and denominations can keep your religion more interesting, as it includes the factor of personal opinion in the interpretation of religious doctrines.

These internal divisions within religions can be because of disputes in beliefs and rituals, discontent from certain members, personal interpretations, or even through the interference of the state. They also have to have a reason for them to separate themselves to form a distinct group within a religion. Within your fictional religion, you can have as many internal divisions within your religion as you want, provided you can keep track of them all. I'm not discouraging you from giving detailed information of your religion's sects, cults and denominations, nor am I discouraging you from creating names for tens of thousands of sects; but please do make sure you can fit in all in your head.

A religious denomination is the general term referring to a recognized branch of a religion. Some of them could operate autonomously from the generally recognized religious leadership. Often denominations may have a couple of differences in beliefs and practices from other groups. A sect is a denomination that has more varying religious beliefs and practices from other groups within the same religion. Sects are typically regarded as heretical to other sects and denominations, and vice versa. Their doctrines and beliefs tend to vary more from mainline denominations within that religion. Cults are sects within religions or entirely independent religious groups that tend to focus on a particular figure or object associated with it.

Religion's Influence

Religion has played an important role in people's lives, in the affairs of governments, and in society. It may not be as important when you are first creating your religion, but it may come in handy someday to know about the influence of religion — especially if you are focusing on your nation's culture. There are a few concepts that may be covered in this section, such as the relationship between church and state, societal norms influence by religious morals and ethics, and perhaps more than I could mention.

Your religion's adherents will most likely have particular views on the world around them, whether positive or negative — adherents of other religions and those who do not adhere to religion have their own views as well. Their opinions can be shaped by the religion they affiliate themselves with. Common attitudes to people of other religions or to those who consider themselves irreligious include a usually negative outlook on them, whom your adherents may believe aren't believing in their beliefs or practicing their rituals and traditions. Another positive attitude may be focused on interfaith dialogue and cooperation. Once again, you don't have to conform to the aforementioned examples.

The relationship between the church and the state — more formally known as the relationship between institutionalized religion as a socio-political force and the governing body of a certain state — is an important factor in religious influence. I would like to give this relation a special note, as it has influenced Western culture for the past centuries. It is either that church and state remain separated and independent of each other, or that both institutions are united. If church and state are separated, that means that a particular religion cannot interfere with the affairs of the state and vice versa. On the other hand, if both church and state are united — the church being the state's most influential religion — then either institution can influence the other in decisions.

There also happens to be a middle ground — that of a civil religion. A civil religion is a religion from where the government bases its values on without declaring it a state religion. That way a government can have a national religion without having to violate the separation of church and state. An example of a government having a civil religion would be the United States government, which derives its values from those found in Christianity, particularly the Protestant branch.

Miscellaneous Concepts

Like every other concept that we know, religion also has its "other things." These peripheral things about particular faiths, sects and cults may be generally seen by the mainstream of religion as "out of line" or just plain heretical. Other times they could be integrated as a core belief in your religion. To be honest, there is no stopping you from creating the strangest of religions, provided that it sticks to the "Rule of Cool" or "Rule of Bro/Sis" when you RP with others. In this section are the miscellaneous concepts of religion that may not have been important enough to flesh out a lot more.

  • Esotericism
    Esotericism in the general sense refers to a belief likely to be understood by a select number of people with a special kind of knowledge or interest. In creating fringe religions, this would be one of the things that your fringe faith may be based on.

  • Gnosticism
    Gnosticism is a collection of ancient belief systems that shunned the material world and embraced the spiritual world. [SOURCE] One should achieve a oneness with the divine — the realization of gnosis (often interpreted as knowledge) — in order to save his/her soul from the material world.

  • Hermeticism
    Hermeticism, while it is based upon the writings of Hermes Trisemegistus, holds that there is a single true theology that manifests itself in all religions — known as the prisca theologia — having been given to God by man in antiquity.[SOURCE] Alchemy, astrology and theosophy are some traditions that it encompasses.

  • Religious Syncretism
    It is combining two different religious belief systems into a new system, or incorporating unrelated traditions into religious beliefs. [SOURCE] The opposite of this is religious exclusivism, which doesn't adapt other beliefs and practices at other religions at all.

Conclusion

Religion can be a fun side of your FT nation to work with, especially as it ties well together with your nation's vibe. However, as the creator of this guide I hope that you have taken the time to read this, as it can be useful to the creation of your nation's fictional religion(s). As with other aspects of worldbuilding your FT star-state, don't limit yourself to what has been outlined in this guide. Be flexible and fluid in your ideas, and think fluidly on the religion you wish to create. After all, your only limits are your imagination, and not what other people think of your ideas, or what they promote as "correct."

If you have further questions, you may ask our II Mentors who are well-versed in the scripture of FT and in worldbuilding — and the rest of the FT community as well, who are just as reliable people to ask. Thank you very much for reading this guide, and may favor from above smile upon you.

- Stormwrath

External and Helpful Links


ACKNOWLEDGMENTS:
While I may have had the intention of publishing this informative guide on creating a religion, much of the information in this guide is contributed by the FT community at large. There are many of them that I would like to acknowledge in this endnote, but I will only mention those of special note, since they have provided much help in creating this guide. To those left unmentioned, thank you for helping out in any way.

Heliocalypse, thank you for responding to when this guide was still an idea. You were the first one I went to concerning the creation of this guide (before that I wanted to create a religion index), and I was glad that you supported the idea.

Kyrusia, thank you for taking the time to listen to my ideas and contributing to it as well. To be honest, not a lot of people would care about a religion guide because religion and science fiction are generally at odds with each other; so thank you for that.

And of course, thank you to the readers for reading. :D
Last edited by Stormwrath on Wed Sep 23, 2015 1:01 am, edited 1 time in total.
N O L I T EF U T U R I ST I M E R E ,N O L I T EP R A E T E R I T I SL A C R I M A R E

In Memorial of the Fallen — Best School RP, 2015 & 2016 P2TM Awards; Best OOC, 2016 P2TM Awards
Personification Life: Epic
◢◤ RIP Avicii (1989-2018)
Filipino, 20, Male, Pro-DU30. Fite me.
Call me Storm or Sailor.
Best School RPer, 2016 P2TM Awards
DeviantArt | OOC Info and Quirky Quotes
Ifreann wrote:A terrible voice echoed across the land, and then all was war.

Your waifu is shit! Shiiiiiiiiit!
The Telosman Nations— PT/FanT
Perseid Federation — FT (FT-Prime)
Valkea — MT
I wear teal, blue & pink for Swith-senpai.

User avatar
OMGeverynameistaken
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 12437
Founded: Jun 24, 2009
Ex-Nation

Postby OMGeverynameistaken » Wed Sep 23, 2015 12:56 am

I'd suggest a category for non-theist religions which have spiritualist beliefs. The Takelma of southern Oregon, for instance, had a belief system which included no gods, but did allow for various supernatural entities of varying degrees of power. A number of Siberian groups have similar beliefs, heavy on the animism, light on the gods.
I AM DISAPPOINTED

User avatar
Federal Republic of Free States
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 138
Founded: Sep 04, 2015
Democratic Socialists

Postby Federal Republic of Free States » Wed Sep 23, 2015 1:11 am

Nontheism, Stormwrath touched on it.

User avatar
The V O I D
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 15903
Founded: Apr 13, 2014
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby The V O I D » Wed Sep 23, 2015 2:19 am

So, uh... Stormwrath. What would a religion that is in the belief that the "believing species" (for lack of better term) are the gods, and everything else needs to kneel before Zod them?

User avatar
The Fedral Union
Senator
 
Posts: 4270
Founded: Antiquity
Capitalizt

Postby The Fedral Union » Wed Sep 23, 2015 6:14 am

You're welcome for the encouragement Storm, like I said Nay Sayers be damned it could be done.


The Void, no. Beliefs are distinct from a religion; because they don't have to involve a god. The same with with spirituality, religion is just an organized system of faith.

For example I assume we can have a belief that if we try to breath water we drown.
Last edited by The Fedral Union on Wed Sep 23, 2015 6:21 am, edited 2 times in total.

User avatar
Santheres
N&I RP Mentor
 
Posts: 2317
Founded: Apr 29, 2005
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Santheres » Wed Sep 23, 2015 11:32 am

The Fedral Union wrote:You're welcome for the encouragement Storm, like I said Nay Sayers be damned it could be done.


The Void, no. Beliefs are distinct from a religion; because they don't have to involve a god. The same with with spirituality, religion is just an organized system of faith.

For example I assume we can have a belief that if we try to breath water we drown.


Religions don't have to involve a god, either.
Ask me questions if you need help! TG me or visit #nsmentors on irc.esper.net
:: IIWiki :: Map :: Santherese Humanitarian Society :: The Prelation (FT) ::
:: Region: Greater Dienstad :: The Local Cluster (FT) :: NSFT Community Discord Server ::

Up on the housetop Santh-bots pause;
Peace torn apart by steely claws!
Does it bring gifts of fun and games?
Nay, 'tis the king of acid rains!
Where can we flee from Santh-bot's path?
No place is sheltered from his wrath!
Cyborg horror of the skies,
Flee! Save your children! Santh-bot rides!
Proprietor of IIwiki
santh dot ns, gmail for any iiwiki inquiries (and only iiwiki inquiries)

User avatar
The Fedral Union
Senator
 
Posts: 4270
Founded: Antiquity
Capitalizt

Postby The Fedral Union » Wed Sep 23, 2015 11:48 am


User avatar
The United Dominion
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 162
Founded: Oct 17, 2011
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby The United Dominion » Wed Sep 23, 2015 11:53 am



There are several definitions, some of which are not in that dictionary, including ones that do not require gods because there are in actuality religions, including subgroups within larger religions, that do not have gods.
:: The Local Cluster :: Join Today! ::
:: "The Best Region for NSFT"™ ::
:: NSFT Community Discord Server ::

User avatar
The Fedral Union
Senator
 
Posts: 4270
Founded: Antiquity
Capitalizt

Postby The Fedral Union » Wed Sep 23, 2015 11:57 am

All right sure fine, I answered to the best of my ability; my field isn't social science.

User avatar
Tierra Prime
Negotiator
 
Posts: 7080
Founded: Apr 07, 2010
Democratic Socialists

Postby Tierra Prime » Wed Sep 23, 2015 12:10 pm

What is the consensus on issuing mainly semi-automatic weapons to infantry? I like the idea of using a heavy laser rifle designed specifically to pierce armour instead of something that just sprays beams everywhere. I know battle rifles went out of fashion IRL once assault rifles were introduced, but that doesn't mean the case will be the same in the future, right? I can honestly see power armour being immune to anything other than HMGs and bolt action rifles (And the energy/rail/gauss equivalents of such). This also bring to mind the idea of melee weapons and their use in FT. We have vests now that can stop knives, so some sort of powered version (A power-mace?) would be required in order to pierce heavy armour, yes?
Last edited by Tierra Prime on Wed Sep 23, 2015 12:18 pm, edited 3 times in total.

User avatar
The Fedral Union
Senator
 
Posts: 4270
Founded: Antiquity
Capitalizt

Postby The Fedral Union » Wed Sep 23, 2015 12:26 pm

Tierra Prime wrote:What is the consensus on issuing mainly semi-automatic weapons to infantry? I like the idea of using a heavy laser rifle designed specifically to pierce armour instead of something that just sprays beams everywhere. I know battle rifles went out of fashion IRL once assault rifles were introduced, but that doesn't mean the case will be the same in the future, right? I can see power Armour being immune to anything other than HMGs and bolt action rifles (And the energy/rail/gauss equivalents of such).



1: Look at the M16A2... they don't have a fully automatic mode any more because it wastes ammo and jams the gun

2: Lasers produce heat, continuous fire instead of pulse firing would like cause your barrel to melt. So your reasoning on not having one that zaps beams all over the place is sound.

3: There is still a lot of explosive and kinetic force behind a bullet, especially a 50 cal, or even a 20 mm Anti material round; FT power armor isn't immune. They might be more resistant but if you hit them with AP rounds your gonna take who ever has it on down or at least toss them to the ground.

3: Variable mode weapons are nice, suppression fire is a thing so its wise to keep a weapon that can sustain a sufficient volume of fire so your forces can preform maneuver tactics.

4:How effective a gun is depends on its range, and the rounds ballistic properties ; power armor is not meant to make infantry in to walking tanks per say, that would defeat the whole idea behind a mobile and dynamic force. You might not be able to take down enemy infantry with a single hit; it may take a few but you will still take them down.

5: suggestion, use an accelerated gyrojet round for sniping duty, give the rounds enough force to push it out of the barrel a small ways until its motor activates; this will give your snipers scoot and shoot abilities if need be. And create less heat to be detected because of weapons energy usage.


6: Manportable rocket weapons. AT missiles; MANPAD's all still work, put a new "guidance system in" and a warhead "perhaps micro fusion"... And you have an armor killer.

7: melee weapons should be a last resort; if your enemy is that close to you, you're in trouble. Monomolecular blades or (insert fancy energy coated K-BAR) here would be your final defense. But in reality blades and bayonets are utilitarian as well; they aren't just meant to kill things, but to survive.
--

If you don't care too much about being uber realistic and want to let your imagination run wild? Fancy stuff like Disruptor's and shaped mini nukes or plas weapons would be fine.

Finalnote:

Semi automatic weapons are fine; unless you need to lay a wall of cover fire; they're good for close quarters fighting unless your not worried about killing civies, lasers would be really accurate. A gun is a gun, it depends on how you write it.
Last edited by The Fedral Union on Wed Sep 23, 2015 12:35 pm, edited 2 times in total.

User avatar
Tierra Prime
Negotiator
 
Posts: 7080
Founded: Apr 07, 2010
Democratic Socialists

Postby Tierra Prime » Wed Sep 23, 2015 12:53 pm

The Fedral Union wrote:snip

All good points, thank you.

The only thing I disagree with is power armour not making infantry into walking tanks. I follow the Fallout idea of powered armoured soldiers being akin to mechanised/cavalry forces, so that's probably where we differ. I also make a distinction between troops wearing combat amour (Which would include light powered suits, flak armour, and whatever Star Wars Stormtroopers wear) and actual powered armour. The end result of all of this is I don't have a lot of active troops, because my military issues powered armour as standard to all active units. I do have a large reserve force, but it's made up mainly of conscripted troops equipped with combat armour (Hence why my reserve troops are designated as auxiliaries). I find it allows greater balance, because I can have powered armour troops for RPs with people who use powered armour, and light forces for RPs with people who go down the Warhammer 40k Imperial Guard-style quantity route.

User avatar
The Fedral Union
Senator
 
Posts: 4270
Founded: Antiquity
Capitalizt

Postby The Fedral Union » Wed Sep 23, 2015 1:11 pm

Thing is; you'd usually want a tank, an IFV, or a rover (or light transport craft) or even air transports and support backing them up. The best defense is a good offense. IFV's and rovers/(or w/e) to quickly move your force in to position, and tanks to back their assault up, if your lucky to have air support or artillery this works even better.

Thing is in FT you also have ships, and they can shoot at you from orbit; your not going to be usually or shouldn't be usually fighting on large open ground but in cities and towns, and with forces behind enemy lines. It all depends on what you want to accomplish; take a BMP or an M2... carry more troops and can provide better fire support and protection. Wave tactics with huge numbers of soldiers are costly, if your fighting a well entrenched enemy would the victory be worth the price? How fast can you replace and train those troops; how much experience do they have? How good are their NCO's and field commanders? See what happened on the Russian front in WW1 and WW2, the masses of losses to more specialized and dedicated German mechanized assaults. the soviets won through attrition, in FT you have force multipliers. That makes pulling "the we have reserves card harder"

So my main point is, mechanize, build tanks, air support, drones, I'm not saying do away with your militia just consider you'd rather have a well equipped well trained professional army in most cases; and also consider the logistics costs of it all. You'll need better command and control; and more streamlined command and control with well integrated units.

If you rely on ships above to do a lot of the pounding in to submission I can see why you wouldn't need a lot of armor; but you would still have to fight the surviving forces. Usually people take objectives and key areas. If you do that you gain a foothold. If you want to subjugate the planet.. That will take a lot of resources. Occupations aren't cheap. Its less expensive to take out production facilities and key objectives than occupation. Some people like to planet glass.. But I personally don't operate that way due to IC ethics and oocly its not fun.

Balance is a thing yes; the more force you have the longer they take to mobilize the more expensive they are to maintain, this puts oversize armies at a disadvantage; but if you go TOO far in to what the DOD calls the death spiral of quality and tech spending you end up with expensive toys that you cant make more than a few hundred of. If you find a 50/50 solution to it then I'm sure you'll do fine.
Last edited by The Fedral Union on Wed Sep 23, 2015 1:21 pm, edited 4 times in total.

User avatar
Tierra Prime
Negotiator
 
Posts: 7080
Founded: Apr 07, 2010
Democratic Socialists

Postby Tierra Prime » Wed Sep 23, 2015 1:45 pm

The Fedral Union wrote:Thing is; you'd usually want a tank, an IFV, or a rover (or light transport craft) or even air transports and support backing them up. The best defense is a good offense. IFV's and rovers/(or w/e) to quickly move your force in to position, and tanks to back their assault up, if your lucky to have air support or artillery this works even better.

Thing is in FT you also have ships, and they can shoot at you from orbit; your not going to be usually or shouldn't be usually fighting on large open ground but in cities and towns, and with forces behind enemy lines. It all depends on what you want to accomplish; take a BMP or an M2... carry more troops and can provide better fire support and protection. Wave tactics with huge numbers of soldiers are costly, if your fighting a well entrenched enemy would the victory be worth the price? How fast can you replace and train those troops; how much experience do they have? How good are their NCO's and field commanders? See what happened on the Russian front in WW1 and WW2, the masses of losses to more specialized and dedicated German mechanized assaults. the soviets won through attrition, in FT you have force multipliers. That makes pulling "the we have reserves card harder"

So my main point is, mechanize, build tanks, air support, drones, I'm not saying do away with your militia just consider you'd rather have a well equipped well trained professional army in most cases; and also consider the logistics costs of it all. You'll need better command and control; and more streamlined command and control with well integrated units.

If you rely on ships above to do a lot of the pounding in to submission I can see why you wouldn't need a lot of armor; but you would still have to fight the surviving forces. Usually people take objectives and key areas. If you do that you gain a foothold. If you want to subjugate the planet.. That will take a lot of resources. Occupations aren't cheap. Its less expensive to take out production facilities and key objectives than occupation. Some people like to planet glass.. But I personally don't operate that way due to IC ethics and oocly its not fun.

Balance is a thing yes; the more force you have the longer they take to mobilize the more expensive they are to maintain, this puts oversize armies at a disadvantage; but if you go TOO far in to what the DOD calls the death spiral of quality and tech spending you end up with expensive toys that you cant make more than a few hundred of. If you find a 50/50 solution to it then I'm sure you'll do fine.

I understand what you are saying, but I'm equipping my military as I am specifically so I can use human wave tactics when I want. Basically, if I feel like using elite assault infantry, or if the story calls for them, I'll pull out my powered armoured forces. If I feel like some trench warfare or want to suffer massive casualties (Either because I'm in that mood or because the story demands it), I'll send in my walking sandbags. I could, could, have a perfect, squeaky clean military that makes complete sense and is equipped with the best technology going, but that's not how I roll. I want to get into the nitty gritty of warfare, with soldiers being blow to smithereens, epidemics spreading through poorly built trenches, that kind of thing. Essentially, I'm trying to portray both my military and my nation as deeply flawed, because that's what I find to be realistic.

I never usually consider ships when I'm RPing ground warfare, because orbital bombardment is as you said, a very touchy topic. I try to drag the space battle out for as long as possible, or come up with some reason as to why orbital bombardment can't work, like ground based guns being a threat to ships, ect. It makes for a much better RP if an assault on a planet is bloody, and the likes of ground defences limiting support from ships adds realism. I don't agree with ships just being able to pound entire armies out of existence unless it's a major plot point. Forcing troops to assault and destroy enemy anti-ship weapons with no orbital support can be fun. The Killzone series did it well by forcing you to destroy Helghast anti-ship weapons to advance the story in the second game, because they were implied to be keeping reinforcements and supplies from landing.

User avatar
The Fedral Union
Senator
 
Posts: 4270
Founded: Antiquity
Capitalizt

Postby The Fedral Union » Wed Sep 23, 2015 2:07 pm

Ahhh ok, All-right well in that case I can see how you can use these walking tanks in two roles.

One you distract the enemy with suppressing fire if your attacking a fortified building; allow your armored folk to get clean shots out to burn the enemy out or take down the building.

Two, as defensive link to take on enemy armor with say rockets or as a flank if you want to use them as Calvary. All I am saying that while you may not do things like use ships personally others might, so you should be prepared that you might have to adapt tactics to who your fighting in FT. And even perfect warmachines have logistical things to worry about there are any number of situations where they can be cut off or have to withdraw, but if your going for that scene bro, go for it.

High end FT stuff needs maintenance; requires alot of resources to produce; lower scale things well lets put it this way. An AK-47 can have a tank drive over it and still work. And its mass producible. If your case is one of wanting the grit, the dirt and flawed feeling of war, you should talk to you ever you plan to rp with so you guys can set something that can lead up to that sort of thing happening. Because someone might screw up a setting without knowing; ICly a nation will always fight either to win a war, or defense or to bring about peace (sometimes FOR TEH EMPIRE)..

OOC.. There is no winning, trying to win at NS is pointless so yeah I just gave you tidbits on combat stuff; because its natural in character for a power to want to succeed. Best suggestion is talk to the other guys first to make sure you and them have a good time.
Last edited by The Fedral Union on Wed Sep 23, 2015 2:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Nyte
Minister
 
Posts: 2147
Founded: Dec 06, 2012
Democratic Socialists

Postby Nyte » Wed Sep 23, 2015 2:27 pm

I wouldn't necessarily say that a melee weapon needs to be a powered weapon (like a 40K power sword) to be effective in FT. Such a weapon can basically be whatever you want, and it will be as effective as it needs to be for the sake of the plot and story. I'd actually recommend a variety of different melee weapons though due to the fact that they all work differently which would make for more diversity it your story. As an example, the effects of a chainsword will be very different than say a powered hammer... The use of these different weapons, the effects they would have on a target (or a different type of melee weapon), and even the weapon breaking down at that one inopportune moment all adds flavor to a story.

Plus, they're always useful in a hectic urban battle where your troops may have long run out of ammo but are still fighting building to building...

Also, rule of cool!

User avatar
Kyrusia
Senior Game Moderator
 
Posts: 8593
Founded: Nov 12, 2007
Capitalizt

Postby Kyrusia » Wed Sep 23, 2015 4:22 pm

Thank you, Stormwrath; your guide has been added to the "Helpful Links" section of the OP.
One Stop Rules Shop | RP Mentors | FT Advice & Assistance Thread | FT: Helpful Links
Senior Game Moderator and Senior N&I Roleplay Mentor specializing in Future Technology. Ask away!
"Kyrusia. Brooding, irrepressible, immeasurable." — The United Dominion

User avatar
OMGeverynameistaken
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 12437
Founded: Jun 24, 2009
Ex-Nation

Postby OMGeverynameistaken » Wed Sep 23, 2015 5:17 pm

Tierra Prime wrote:What is the consensus on issuing mainly semi-automatic weapons to infantry? I like the idea of using a heavy laser rifle designed specifically to pierce armour instead of something that just sprays beams everywhere. I know battle rifles went out of fashion IRL once assault rifles were introduced, but that doesn't mean the case will be the same in the future, right? I can honestly see power armour being immune to anything other than HMGs and bolt action rifles (And the energy/rail/gauss equivalents of such). This also bring to mind the idea of melee weapons and their use in FT. We have vests now that can stop knives, so some sort of powered version (A power-mace?) would be required in order to pierce heavy armour, yes?

I've got space muskets.

Start with what you consider the 'essentials' of your nation and build around those. Nobody's going to tell you you're 'wrong' unless you try to field 70 AU diameter worldships.
I AM DISAPPOINTED

User avatar
Tierra Prime
Negotiator
 
Posts: 7080
Founded: Apr 07, 2010
Democratic Socialists

Postby Tierra Prime » Wed Sep 23, 2015 5:50 pm

OMGeverynameistaken wrote:
Tierra Prime wrote:What is the consensus on issuing mainly semi-automatic weapons to infantry? I like the idea of using a heavy laser rifle designed specifically to pierce armour instead of something that just sprays beams everywhere. I know battle rifles went out of fashion IRL once assault rifles were introduced, but that doesn't mean the case will be the same in the future, right? I can honestly see power armour being immune to anything other than HMGs and bolt action rifles (And the energy/rail/gauss equivalents of such). This also bring to mind the idea of melee weapons and their use in FT. We have vests now that can stop knives, so some sort of powered version (A power-mace?) would be required in order to pierce heavy armour, yes?

I've got space muskets.

Start with what you consider the 'essentials' of your nation and build around those. Nobody's going to tell you you're 'wrong' unless you try to field 70 AU diameter worldships.

It's good to see you back, you seemed to disappear for a while there.

Don't you also have power armoured horses? I remember that idea popping up at one stage.
Last edited by Tierra Prime on Wed Sep 23, 2015 5:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
The Fedral Union
Senator
 
Posts: 4270
Founded: Antiquity
Capitalizt

Postby The Fedral Union » Wed Sep 23, 2015 6:42 pm

You could always use that mace simply to incapacitate an enemy or stun him before shooting or striking a blow with a reverse blade.... Just electrify it. It'd require a 1, 2 move but...

User avatar
Tierra Prime
Negotiator
 
Posts: 7080
Founded: Apr 07, 2010
Democratic Socialists

Postby Tierra Prime » Wed Sep 23, 2015 6:49 pm

The Fedral Union wrote:You could always use that mace simply to incapacitate an enemy or stun him before shooting or striking a blow with a reverse blade.... Just electrify it. It'd require a 1, 2 move but...

The stun function is something I'm very interesting in using, because stun lasers don't really work if you want to keep people's bodies intact.

User avatar
Stormwrath
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6833
Founded: Feb 08, 2014
New York Times Democracy

Postby Stormwrath » Wed Sep 23, 2015 6:56 pm

The V O I D wrote:So, uh... Stormwrath. What would a religion that is in the belief that the "believing species" (for lack of better term) are the gods, and everything else needs to kneel before Zod them?

You mean a religion that believes that the adherents are their own gods, or that they worship another race of beings that may or may not exist?
N O L I T EF U T U R I ST I M E R E ,N O L I T EP R A E T E R I T I SL A C R I M A R E

In Memorial of the Fallen — Best School RP, 2015 & 2016 P2TM Awards; Best OOC, 2016 P2TM Awards
Personification Life: Epic
◢◤ RIP Avicii (1989-2018)
Filipino, 20, Male, Pro-DU30. Fite me.
Call me Storm or Sailor.
Best School RPer, 2016 P2TM Awards
DeviantArt | OOC Info and Quirky Quotes
Ifreann wrote:A terrible voice echoed across the land, and then all was war.

Your waifu is shit! Shiiiiiiiiit!
The Telosman Nations— PT/FanT
Perseid Federation — FT (FT-Prime)
Valkea — MT
I wear teal, blue & pink for Swith-senpai.

User avatar
The Fedral Union
Senator
 
Posts: 4270
Founded: Antiquity
Capitalizt

Postby The Fedral Union » Wed Sep 23, 2015 7:01 pm

Tierra Prime wrote:
The Fedral Union wrote:You could always use that mace simply to incapacitate an enemy or stun him before shooting or striking a blow with a reverse blade.... Just electrify it. It'd require a 1, 2 move but...

The stun function is something I'm very interesting in using, because stun lasers don't really work if you want to keep people's bodies intact.


Well I was thinking if they were in armor you'd be able to disable it with enough voltage or energy without frying the guy inside; or have it tunable?

User avatar
Tierra Prime
Negotiator
 
Posts: 7080
Founded: Apr 07, 2010
Democratic Socialists

Postby Tierra Prime » Wed Sep 23, 2015 7:14 pm

The Fedral Union wrote:
Tierra Prime wrote:The stun function is something I'm very interesting in using, because stun lasers don't really work if you want to keep people's bodies intact.


Well I was thinking if they were in armor you'd be able to disable it with enough voltage or energy without frying the guy inside; or have it tunable?

All of that works for me, I've been looking for an idea for a tunable stun weapon for a while. Thank you.

PreviousNext

Advertisement

Remove ads

Return to International Incidents

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Crookfur, Silver Commonwealth

Advertisement

Remove ads