Which of course would just show them to be massive hypocrites. With the punishment being forced to forever be employed in a non-profit co-op.
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by New Ogunquit » Sat Aug 29, 2015 4:23 am
Ifreann wrote:Farn be locking threads like they were bridges.
Ifreann wrote:Political correctness needs to go further, because the tears of people crying over being called on their bullshit fuel my time machine.Quintium wrote:Just another symptom of self-hatred in Western Europe and North America. Don't worry, it'll all end in war. But for the moment, try not to be too white if you don't want to be discriminated against.
Yes, more tears...
by AiliailiA » Sat Aug 29, 2015 4:24 am
The Free and Virtuous wrote:New Ogunquit wrote:Kind of an icy wasteland. Also, Denmark would probably have something to say about that.
Assuming that Libertarians WERE willing to use force, perhaps they could become modern day filibusterers and march into some sparsely populated areas of Mexico and take over. The Mexican army is ill equipped to deal with an insurgency
and if you had the right administration in office in the U.S. it is possible that America wouldn't do anything.
Cannot think of a name wrote:"Where's my immortality?" will be the new "Where's my jetpack?"
Maineiacs wrote:"We're going to build a canal, and we're going to make Columbia pay for it!" -- Teddy Roosevelt
Ifreann wrote:That's not a Freudian slip. A Freudian slip is when you say one thing and mean your mother.
by Hurdegaryp » Sat Aug 29, 2015 4:26 am
Jute wrote:Hurdegaryp wrote:It's not as if libertarianism is known as a movement that cares about actual facts.
Or arguments questioning the movement's philosophy.
CVT Temp wrote:I mean, we can actually create a mathematical definition for evolution in terms of the evolutionary algorithm and then write code to deal with abstract instances of evolution, which basically equates to mathematical proof that evolution works. All that remains is to show that biological systems replicate in such a way as to satisfy the minimal criteria required for evolution to apply to them, something which has already been adequately shown time and again. At this point, we've pretty much proven that not only can evolution happen, it pretty much must happen since it's basically impossible to prevent it from happening.
by Oasisa » Sat Aug 29, 2015 4:29 am
Ailiailia wrote:There are many unoccupied islands, but all of them (afaik) are in sea territory claimed by some nation or else in sea like the Antarctic protected by treaty from human colonization.
Make your own island perhaps. In the Pacific and probably other oceans, there are very shallow areas where dumping a few million tons of rock and earth would make a new island. Two problems: firstly, it would cost a lot of money to do that, and secondly the shallow areas often have coral or other marine life which would be fubar'd by dumping rock and earth on them. Expect nations, with troublesome things like navies, to stop you doing that or to take it away from you after you've done it, and don't expect a groundswell of popular support for your project.
Move to some country with very weak (and/or corrupt) government, buy a lot of land, and secede. Not a "Libertarian purity" option, since by doing that you are in fact declaring a state. Also, it's quite unlikely that seceding would succeed: even a weak and corrupt government can see the benefit of letting their common criminals and their upstart secessionists fight it out between them. Two birds with one stone y'know.
Find territory between two countries which is claimed by neither. This won't be an island, be sure of that. It will only be a desolate and landlocked area, like The Kingdom of North Sudan. Nice present for a little girl, but let's not pretend it's a place the "princess" would actually chose to live.
Maybe you have relatives who have lived in the same area for thousands of years. This frankly is your best chance of "libertarian colonization". You could get land without paying for it, and you could get a degree of self-government, if you have family and community descended from the people who lived there and were dispossessed by actual colonialism.
"A degree of self government" isn't all this kind of "Libertarian" dreams of. They dream of full self-government (which if it's a private dream, is literally no government). Gaining the legal title to land (without buying it) and gaining a small degree of self-government beyond what other people have on their privately owned land, is however the very most they could reasonably achieve.
As a cynic once said to me, when I was in my anarchist phase of youthful idealism: "if you want freedom, you have to buy it."
by Jute » Sat Aug 29, 2015 4:30 am
Hurdegaryp wrote:
Actually thinking about what makes society function is a whole lot harder than shouting "taxation is theft" like a Randroid on autopilot.
Carl Sagan, astrophysicist and atheist wrote:"Science is not only compatible with spirituality; it is a profound source of spirituality.
When we recognize our place in an immensity of light-years and in the passage of ages,
when we grasp the intricacy, beauty, and subtlety of life, then that soaring feeling,
that sense of elation and humility combined, is surely spiritual...
The notion that science and spirituality are somehow mutually exclusive does a disservice to both."
Italios wrote:Jute's probably some sort of Robin Hood-type outlaw
"Boys and girls so happy, young and gay / Don't let false worldly joy carry your hearts away."
by AiliailiA » Sat Aug 29, 2015 4:34 am
New Ogunquit wrote:Assuming they were able to annex some sort of wilderness, would they be starting from the ground up or something?
Because I think it's a little hard to focus on a political ideology when you're fending off wild animals and whatnot. Also, a one party system seems kind of authoritarian.
Cannot think of a name wrote:"Where's my immortality?" will be the new "Where's my jetpack?"
Maineiacs wrote:"We're going to build a canal, and we're going to make Columbia pay for it!" -- Teddy Roosevelt
Ifreann wrote:That's not a Freudian slip. A Freudian slip is when you say one thing and mean your mother.
by Napkiraly » Sat Aug 29, 2015 4:34 am
Oasisa wrote:Ailiailia wrote:There are many unoccupied islands, but all of them (afaik) are in sea territory claimed by some nation or else in sea like the Antarctic protected by treaty from human colonization.
Make your own island perhaps. In the Pacific and probably other oceans, there are very shallow areas where dumping a few million tons of rock and earth would make a new island. Two problems: firstly, it would cost a lot of money to do that, and secondly the shallow areas often have coral or other marine life which would be fubar'd by dumping rock and earth on them. Expect nations, with troublesome things like navies, to stop you doing that or to take it away from you after you've done it, and don't expect a groundswell of popular support for your project.
Move to some country with very weak (and/or corrupt) government, buy a lot of land, and secede. Not a "Libertarian purity" option, since by doing that you are in fact declaring a state. Also, it's quite unlikely that seceding would succeed: even a weak and corrupt government can see the benefit of letting their common criminals and their upstart secessionists fight it out between them. Two birds with one stone y'know.
Find territory between two countries which is claimed by neither. This won't be an island, be sure of that. It will only be a desolate and landlocked area, like The Kingdom of North Sudan. Nice present for a little girl, but let's not pretend it's a place the "princess" would actually chose to live.
Maybe you have relatives who have lived in the same area for thousands of years. This frankly is your best chance of "libertarian colonization". You could get land without paying for it, and you could get a degree of self-government, if you have family and community descended from the people who lived there and were dispossessed by actual colonialism.
"A degree of self government" isn't all this kind of "Libertarian" dreams of. They dream of full self-government (which if it's a private dream, is literally no government). Gaining the legal title to land (without buying it) and gaining a small degree of self-government beyond what other people have on their privately owned land, is however the very most they could reasonably achieve.
As a cynic once said to me, when I was in my anarchist phase of youthful idealism: "if you want freedom, you have to buy it."
You don't buy freedom, you bleed for it.
by AiliailiA » Sat Aug 29, 2015 4:40 am
Oasisa wrote:Ailiailia wrote:There are many unoccupied islands, but all of them (afaik) are in sea territory claimed by some nation or else in sea like the Antarctic protected by treaty from human colonization.
Make your own island perhaps. In the Pacific and probably other oceans, there are very shallow areas where dumping a few million tons of rock and earth would make a new island. Two problems: firstly, it would cost a lot of money to do that, and secondly the shallow areas often have coral or other marine life which would be fubar'd by dumping rock and earth on them. Expect nations, with troublesome things like navies, to stop you doing that or to take it away from you after you've done it, and don't expect a groundswell of popular support for your project.
Move to some country with very weak (and/or corrupt) government, buy a lot of land, and secede. Not a "Libertarian purity" option, since by doing that you are in fact declaring a state. Also, it's quite unlikely that seceding would succeed: even a weak and corrupt government can see the benefit of letting their common criminals and their upstart secessionists fight it out between them. Two birds with one stone y'know.
Find territory between two countries which is claimed by neither. This won't be an island, be sure of that. It will only be a desolate and landlocked area, like The Kingdom of North Sudan. Nice present for a little girl, but let's not pretend it's a place the "princess" would actually chose to live.
Maybe you have relatives who have lived in the same area for thousands of years. This frankly is your best chance of "libertarian colonization". You could get land without paying for it, and you could get a degree of self-government, if you have family and community descended from the people who lived there and were dispossessed by actual colonialism.
"A degree of self government" isn't all this kind of "Libertarian" dreams of. They dream of full self-government (which if it's a private dream, is literally no government). Gaining the legal title to land (without buying it) and gaining a small degree of self-government beyond what other people have on their privately owned land, is however the very most they could reasonably achieve.
As a cynic once said to me, when I was in my anarchist phase of youthful idealism: "if you want freedom, you have to buy it."
You don't buy freedom, you bleed for it.
Cannot think of a name wrote:"Where's my immortality?" will be the new "Where's my jetpack?"
Maineiacs wrote:"We're going to build a canal, and we're going to make Columbia pay for it!" -- Teddy Roosevelt
Ifreann wrote:That's not a Freudian slip. A Freudian slip is when you say one thing and mean your mother.
by AiliailiA » Sat Aug 29, 2015 5:02 am
Cannot think of a name wrote:"Where's my immortality?" will be the new "Where's my jetpack?"
Maineiacs wrote:"We're going to build a canal, and we're going to make Columbia pay for it!" -- Teddy Roosevelt
Ifreann wrote:That's not a Freudian slip. A Freudian slip is when you say one thing and mean your mother.
by Hurdegaryp » Sat Aug 29, 2015 6:12 am
Filimons wrote:http://www.seasteading.org/
CVT Temp wrote:I mean, we can actually create a mathematical definition for evolution in terms of the evolutionary algorithm and then write code to deal with abstract instances of evolution, which basically equates to mathematical proof that evolution works. All that remains is to show that biological systems replicate in such a way as to satisfy the minimal criteria required for evolution to apply to them, something which has already been adequately shown time and again. At this point, we've pretty much proven that not only can evolution happen, it pretty much must happen since it's basically impossible to prevent it from happening.
by Knokkeheist » Sat Aug 29, 2015 6:13 am
by Gauthier » Sat Aug 29, 2015 6:14 am
Communes of Europe wrote:Alpha Centauri.
by Communes of Europe » Sat Aug 29, 2015 6:25 am
by Gauthier » Sat Aug 29, 2015 6:27 am
by Communes of Europe » Sat Aug 29, 2015 6:33 am
by Dyakovo » Sat Aug 29, 2015 6:36 am
The Free and Virtuous wrote:There aren't many places left in the world for people to establish nation states. Where do you think would be the best place for Libertarians to go in order to establish a new nation? I'm not talking about micronations or citystates either, I mean a full blown, brand new country. I've always thought Sakhalin would be an interesting option, if things go really poorly in Russia and the whole country starts to collapse or tip into civil war it would theoretically be possible for a fairly small group of colonists to seize control of the island. Another option would be Borneo, I'm not sure how the locals there would react to Libertarianism but said colonists could probably encourage separatist sentiments in both the Malaysian part and the Indonesian part of the island, they could also retreat into the jungle on the center of island when things get tough. Now, realistically I don't think this would work because Libertarians are opposed to violence and as such guerrilla warfare wouldn't be a reasonable means of state creation for them but it's fun to speculate about.
by Cinnabarra » Sat Aug 29, 2015 6:40 am
by The Serbian Empire » Sat Aug 29, 2015 6:43 am
Cinnabarra wrote:Bir Tawil, as someone suggested, would be very appropriate.
Joke aside, you can't colonize.You'd come under international denunciations and be more likely to be treated as terrorists if you try to force natives out of their country.Sakhalin is also inhabited, and there's oil.Not many people would give it up.
However, inside the US, if all the American libertarians were to go to a sparesely-populated state, they could influence local politics their way.
by The Serbian Empire » Sat Aug 29, 2015 6:46 am
by Jute » Sat Aug 29, 2015 6:52 am
Carl Sagan, astrophysicist and atheist wrote:"Science is not only compatible with spirituality; it is a profound source of spirituality.
When we recognize our place in an immensity of light-years and in the passage of ages,
when we grasp the intricacy, beauty, and subtlety of life, then that soaring feeling,
that sense of elation and humility combined, is surely spiritual...
The notion that science and spirituality are somehow mutually exclusive does a disservice to both."
Italios wrote:Jute's probably some sort of Robin Hood-type outlaw
"Boys and girls so happy, young and gay / Don't let false worldly joy carry your hearts away."
by Old Tyrannia » Sat Aug 29, 2015 6:56 am
by Immoren » Sat Aug 29, 2015 6:57 am
discoursedrome wrote:everyone knows that quote, "I know not what weapons World War Three will be fought, but World War Four will be fought with sticks and stones," but in a way it's optimistic and inspiring because it suggests that even after destroying civilization and returning to the stone age we'll still be sufficiently globalized and bellicose to have another world war right then and there
by Meridiani Planum » Sat Aug 29, 2015 7:27 am
Jute wrote:At least "Property is theft" has a reasoning and arguments behind it.
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